Casino to Murwillumbah line to remain closed

 
  Matthew Chief Train Controller

I don't know how the setup is on this thing, but the roof has 40m2 of suitable angle and at 150W/m2, this is only 6kW or 42 kWh a day in winter, up to 60 kW in summer per car.

A 80-100kW motor is likely more than enough to get it moving, but it will need to have its battery boosted on arrival to each station like the Newcastle tram.
RTT_Rules

The solar panels on the train itself are little more than show. They keep the auxiliary battery charged up. The majority of the energy actually comes from the grid at the depot where the railcar set is plugged in and the batteries charged overnight.
The depot roof is covered with solar panels and over a day produces enough electricity to cover what the charge cycle uses at night, but they don't store it at the depot, but push it into the electricity grid.
They are basically using the electricity grid as a giant battery. I believe at a later stage if funding is forthcoming, a battery bank will be installed at the depot so the power would be PV solar -> (depot)battery -> (railcar)battery Smile


One of the 2 diesel engines has been replaced by an electric drive, leaving the other engine and transmission in place to allow the train to get back to the depot if it has an electrical problem or the batteries get critically low.

At the moment they can only claim it's a 'solar train' by accounting fiddle.

It's really a technology demonstrator test bed and not a commercially viable system on it's own, but as a technology demonstrator it's providing valuable data on possibilities.

Of course once the rail-trail people take over the railway alignment, they will fight any proposal for the railway to be reinstated in the future as they won't want to lose their nice level trail. While I like the idea of disused rail alignments becoming cycle touring paths, the cycle touring lobby then become vocal opposition to rail reopening and I'd rather a functioning railway than a touring cycle route.

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I don't know how the setup is on this thing, but the roof has 40m2 of suitable angle and at 150W/m2, this is only 6kW or 42 kWh a day in winter, up to 60 kW in summer per car.

A 80-100kW motor is likely more than enough to get it moving, but it will need to have its battery boosted on arrival to each station like the Newcastle tram.

The solar panels on the train itself are little more than show. They keep the auxiliary battery charged up. The majority of the energy actually comes from the grid at the depot where the railcar set is plugged in and the batteries charged overnight.
The depot roof is covered with solar panels and over a day produces enough electricity to cover what the charge cycle uses at night, but they don't store it at the depot, but push it into the electricity grid.
They are basically using the electricity grid as a giant battery. I believe at a later stage if funding is forthcoming, a battery bank will be installed at the depot so the power would be PV solar -> (depot)battery -> (railcar)battery Smile


One of the 2 diesel engines has been replaced by an electric drive, leaving the other engine and transmission in place to allow the train to get back to the depot if it has an electrical problem or the batteries get critically low.

At the moment they can only claim it's a 'solar train' by accounting fiddle.

It's really a technology demonstrator test bed and not a commercially viable system on it's own, but as a technology demonstrator it's providing valuable data on possibilities.

Of course once the rail-trail people take over the railway alignment, they will fight any proposal for the railway to be reinstated in the future as they won't want to lose their nice level trail. While I like the idea of disused rail alignments becoming cycle touring paths, the cycle touring lobby then become vocal opposition to rail reopening and I'd rather a functioning railway than a touring cycle route.
Matthew
Thanks, I thought as much.

A depo battery is really a waste of time and money, dump it into the grid. its an off-set, this is allowed in the RE world.

Not sure its really a demonstrator or need for it. Battery powered trains are hardly new and as I said before the Newcastle tram is effectively a battery powered train. If more money had been available it may have proven to be more efficient to buy the same tram car set as they are lighter and designed for this type of work.

Realistically almost no railway converted to cycle way is ever returned with only a few exceptions and if the opposition is strong to oppose it being converted back to a railway then clearly the cycle way see's plenty of use. So just don't think you are going to take it off them without a fight, provide an alternative, you may get a different response.

I think yes fine you could argue that the line to Mull-by can be offered to the Solar train, but do they need/want/justify anymore track beyond, maybe Ocean Shores would be deemed the most viable northern limit? Probably unlikely without deep pockets supporting them. They will need to do something different to service up to Mull-by as the current train is too slow to make it more than a once off "train ride".

If its intended to be a serious form of a PT, the vehicle of choice should probably be modernised and consider trams as they are nearly half the weight.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

6.5 kw on the trains roof and 30kw on the roof of the shed. Yes I believe they are looking in to batteries. According to their website 73% of the electricity generated by the shed roof is fed back in to the grid while the rest is used to power the train according to their website. https://byronbaytrain.com.au/sustainability/

The problem with feeding electricity back in to the grid these days is that we are no longer getting the 60c a kw/h we used to in NSW. Many are only offering 12c a kw/h but charging over 20c to bring it back in off the grid. This is why a shed battery should be looked at because storing energy in the grid in NSW is now just a money waster.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
6.5 kw on the roof and 30kw on the roof of the shed. Yes I believe they are looking in to batteries. According to their website 73% of the electricity generated by the shed roof is fed back in to the grid while the rest is used to power the train according to their website. https://byronbaytrain.com.au/sustainability/

The problem with feeding electricity back in to the grid these days is that we are no longer getting the 60c a kw/h we used to in NSW. Many are only offering 12c a kw/h but charging over 20c to bring it back in off the grid. This is why a shed battery should be looked at because storing energy in the grid in NSW is now just a money waster.
simstrain
....or you simply charge the train battery on off-peak power during the night on low cost off-peak power (around 12c) and then only top up during the day as needed to sustain the service and feed into the grid most of the solar power generated during the day. Thus avoiding the +$100k cost of another battery and the significant energy loss in charging a battery charging a charging battery.
  Matthew Chief Train Controller

Not sure its really a demonstrator or need for it. Battery powered trains are hardly new and as I said before the Newcastle tram is effectively a battery powered train. If more money had been available it may have proven to be more efficient to buy the same tram car set as they are lighter and designed for this type of work.
RTT_Rules
Part of the project aims was to 'recycle' an older train set and 'sustainably' create a battery-electric train, not just go out and buy a new train factory fitted with batteries - which all the 'major' builders will happily sell you.

The 620 class rail car was a deliberate choice, they for their day, were an advanced lightweight construction, so it was a lightweight platform to start with. Also, they were available thanks to the Newcastle fleet upgrade.

The CAF ACR system used in Newcastle probably wouldn't scale to the speed and distances of a full-sized railway. It's really intended only for short hops in dense urban areas where the urban fashionistas get their knickers in a knot over the visual intrusion of overhead wires.
I do expect however the Byron project will die off - they need to partner with a major rail builder quickly and sell/licence their expertise. The window for doing so is closing as the 'majors' turn out battery-electric hybrids and hydrogen fuel cell trains for various operators in Europe. While they are playing with their tourist ride in Byron, the majors are pumping R&D into similar ideas of sustainable power supply for trains. Just they want to sell new trains, not rebuild (recycle/reuse) older ones.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

....or you simply charge the train battery on off-peak power during the night on low cost off-peak power (around 12c) and then only top up during the day as needed to sustain the service and feed into the grid most of the solar power generated during the day. Thus avoiding the +$100k cost of another battery and the significant energy loss in charging a battery charging a charging battery.
RTT_Rules

Ain't no off peak prices any more if your signed up with a company. Solar feed in prices are dropping dramatically and so having a battery will be much more effective at saving money. Feeding back in to the grid is just a way of throwing money away these days.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
....or you simply charge the train battery on off-peak power during the night on low cost off-peak power (around 12c) and then only top up during the day as needed to sustain the service and feed into the grid most of the solar power generated during the day. Thus avoiding the +$100k cost of another battery and the significant energy loss in charging a battery charging a charging battery.

Ain't no off peak prices any more if your signed up with a company. Solar feed in prices are dropping dramatically and so having a battery will be much more effective at saving money. Feeding back in to the grid is just a way of throwing money away these days.
simstrain
Umm, what planet you living on?

Off-peak rates are available (yes I checked) for commercial and domestic for obvious reasons as it increases demand when the coal turbines are under uterlised and prices are low.

Solar feed tariffs are reflecting rising solar output and off-peak also includes the middle of the day.

Batteries are also expensive and currently not commercially viable which is why govts are offering subsidises.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Not sure its really a demonstrator or need for it. Battery powered trains are hardly new and as I said before the Newcastle tram is effectively a battery powered train. If more money had been available it may have proven to be more efficient to buy the same tram car set as they are lighter and designed for this type of work.
Part of the project aims was to 'recycle' an older train set and 'sustainably' create a battery-electric train, not just go out and buy a new train factory fitted with batteries - which all the 'major' builders will happily sell you.

The 620 class rail car was a deliberate choice, they for their day, were an advanced lightweight construction, so it was a lightweight platform to start with. Also, they were available thanks to the Newcastle fleet upgrade.

The CAF ACR system used in Newcastle probably wouldn't scale to the speed and distances of a full-sized railway. It's really intended only for short hops in dense urban areas where the urban fashionistas get their knickers in a knot over the visual intrusion of overhead wires.
I do expect however the Byron project will die off - they need to partner with a major rail builder quickly and sell/licence their expertise. The window for doing so is closing as the 'majors' turn out battery-electric hybrids and hydrogen fuel cell trains for various operators in Europe. While they are playing with their tourist ride in Byron, the majors are pumping R&D into similar ideas of sustainable power supply for trains. Just they want to sell new trains, not rebuild (recycle/reuse) older ones.
Matthew
The issue with using old equipment is parts and incompatibility, its all a compromise and full of surprises.

Yes they could buy new, but that was just an example. Around the time they were looking to start there were numerous "recycled" rail vehicles that would have alot lighter and cheaper and more efficient to convert. Vic was off-loading W class trams and some Z class trams. Obviously already electric ready, just need a battery and decorative solar panels on the roof and a few metre of OH at each station.  

The 620 class is all good, but probably best left for Sunday specials.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Umm, what planet you living on?

Off-peak rates are available (yes I checked) for commercial and domestic for obvious reasons as it increases demand when the coal turbines are under uterlised and prices are low.

Solar feed tariffs are reflecting rising solar output and off-peak also includes the middle of the day.

Batteries are also expensive and currently not commercially viable which is why govts are offering subsidises.
RTT_Rules

What planet are you on. Off peak doesn't exist any more. You sign up to a plan and you get what you get because if you stay on the non plan price then you pay way more for the electricity you bring in. Wholesale prices might be cheap but the retailers certainly don't pass those savings on to customers.

Batteries are not that expensive and I know because I have a battery bank in my house because it made no sense to export electricity in to the grid for the prices offered. Our inverter puts electricity in to the house for use or the battery. Batteries are that cheap that we are thinking of getting another 5 or 10kwh battery bank.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

There were also the old variotrams up for sale.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Umm, what planet you living on?

Off-peak rates are available (yes I checked) for commercial and domestic for obvious reasons as it increases demand when the coal turbines are under uterlised and prices are low.

Solar feed tariffs are reflecting rising solar output and off-peak also includes the middle of the day.

Batteries are also expensive and currently not commercially viable which is why govts are offering subsidises.

What planet are you on. Off peak doesn't exist any more. You sign up to a plan and you get what you get because if you stay on the non plan price then you pay way more for the electricity you bring in. Wholesale prices might be cheap but the retailers certainly don't pass those savings on to customers.

Batteries are not that expensive and I know because I have a battery bank in my house because it made no sense to export electricity in to the grid for the prices offered. Our inverter puts electricity in to the house for use or the battery. Batteries are that cheap that we are thinking of getting another 5 or 10kwh battery bank.
simstrain
Sim's, no, please no, don't be an idiot and try and prove yourself to be an idiot by ignoring what is clearly available on almost every electricity retailer website for NSW. There are various plans on offer than include off-peak and yes some don't include off-peak for which the day tariff equivalent is lower. Just because you don't have one or chosen not to have doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Before you reply, please consider using Google.

The cost of batteries rarely stacks up without a subsidy or has payback periods of between 8 and 20 years depending on individual circumstances. The economics are changing rapidly and within a very short time without a subsidy it will surely stackup as the cost of battery's rapidly decline and infeed tariff's reflect the wholesale price of power and solar glut for which NSW is currently lagging in rooftop solar roll out vs SA and Qld.


Back to the train,
No need for costly off-rail storage for the current operation, it spends most of the time parked at a station and only moves for 20min a few hours a day. If the train was in continuous motion during most of the day, yes why not.

As for the Variotram's, I wouldn't wish these ugly pieces of human mobility on the good dope smoking people of the Nth Rivers. There is a reason I referenced Victoria.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Even still looking at the current rates I am still better off using and storing my solar myself then pushing it to the grid.

enova solar premium rates

peak - 39.6c/kwh
shoulder - 24.2c/kwh
off peak - 19.8c / kwh
daily supply charge - 109.8c a day

my current plan with origin (recently increased. I think I was paying 18c / kwh before the previous renewal) there is a better plan but I don't want direct debit. I could probably get a better deal but I can change at any time I want as the plan is not locked in.

25.4c kw/h
daily supply charge of 76.58 cents a day
7c / kwh solar feed in.

The 5kv solar array, battery and the smart inverter help me use the solar electricity instead of feeding it in to the grid. This saves me so much money on electricity bills it isn't funny. Batteries are not that expensive any more and it is becoming more and more viable to use batteries then to use the grid.



  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Even still looking at the current rates I am still better off using and storing my solar myself then pushing it to the grid.

enova solar premium rates

peak - 39.6c/kwh
shoulder - 24.2c/kwh
off peak - 19.8c / kwh
daily supply charge - 109.8c a day

my current plan with origin (recently increased. I think I was paying 18c / kwh before the previous renewal) there is a better plan but I don't want direct debit. I could probably get a better deal but I can change at any time I want as the plan is not locked in.

25.4c kw/h
daily supply charge of 76.58 cents a day
7c / kwh solar feed in.

The 5kv solar array, battery and the smart inverter help me use the solar electricity instead of feeding it in to the grid. This saves me so much money on electricity bills it isn't funny. Batteries are not that expensive any more and it is becoming more and more viable to use batteries then to use the grid.



simstrain
Glad we are now aligned on off-peak.

My annual bill in CQ before going Expat in 2010 was $1100-1200 pa and included the ambulance levy. We had no solar anything and installed AC 1-2 years before. No pool, but being an acreage, all water was pumped from tanks to header tank.  Retailer was Ergon Energy, the regional (govt) power supplier for Qld.

The AC didn't increase our power costs as we were on a take or pay contract from previous owner as part of installation deal.  So often our bill was less than contracted minimum price so what the hell we got AC and then it and the ambulance levy was removed, the price was roughly the same.

I had plans to install solar water heating when the eater heater gave up the ghost, but it was less than 10 years old and on tank water, so likely still running and on off-peak cost around $20-30/Qtr in power. In CQ with tank water you don't use hot water for 4mth of the year. Most of the cost was keeping it hot, not use.

PV was also on the agenda, but price was too high then to justify and I'm not talking economic break even as I didn't care about that.

Today, going by a few guides, the power cost would now be around $1500pa. With solar PV which I would have definitely got by now as I want it, about half the power cost will be eliminated and mostly fed into the grid as wife and I both work, leaving a few hundred bucks a year in grid connection fees and evening usage. We would have had a pool by now so solar PV would certainly fund the pool pump usage. I'm not sure a battery would be justified.

My brother in law with his 6.6kW system near Brisbane also on a acreage is ready to pounce as soon as the battery option gives him break even in less than 8 years. So far it hasn't and using the same energy model this morning provided by a supplier it still doesn't but getting close. The data I've seen on his system is that his house PV system has an net energy deficit about 5 days a year. Summer, hot humid weather with heavy cloud (classic SEQ weather).  

The problem (and it depends on local factors) is often the grid connection fees. If you are paying for the grid, you may as well use it and forget the battery (for now). But things are changing and I suspect its not far from equal and if you say it works for you then great but even the green /RE friendly websites still rarely support it on economic grounds.

Having said that, our plan is to return to Oz in 2022 and buy an acreage or small farm, no grid connection with a 10kW system. Grid connection I'd only consider when the regulation changes on selling power into the grid. If I'm selling power into the evening peak, I want part of the pie of the peak rates. The technology is there to do it, so do it. Likewise during the day, the feed in tariff should reflect the grid price of the half hour its fed into.


Hence back to the train, on the current service, forget the battery. Just charge the train or grid when the train is not there and come the end of the day, what charge the train is lacking, off-peak to 90-95%, the rest you can get in the early AM.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Yeah well things have changed since 2010. Batteries are much more affordable and in 2010 I was getting 60c a kw/h for my solar feed in.
Now I am only getting 7c a kilowatt hour and batteries are now extremely affordable and not expensive at all so again why am I putting solar out for 7c kw/h to pay 18-39c to bring that power back in. The prices make batteries extremely viable in 2020 and why would I ever stay on that peak/off peak rate when I use power in the middle of the day. The solar train company would save so much money storing that electricity in batteries instead of getting it from the grid in 2020.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Yeah well things have changed since 2010. Batteries are much more affordable and in 2010 I was getting 60c a kw/h for my solar feed in.
Now I am only getting 7c a kilowatt hour and batteries are now extremely affordable and not expensive at all so again why am I putting solar out for 7c kw/h to pay 18-39c to bring that power back in. The prices make batteries extremely viable in 2020 and why would I ever stay on that peak/off peak rate when I use power in the middle of the day. The solar train company would save so much money storing that electricity in batteries instead of getting it from the grid in 2020.
simstrain
If you have no battery now, a 10kW battery will save you around $1000 pa (differential on prices you state above). A Tesla Powerwall (13.5kW) is around $14k installed, maybe cheaper. So payback is around the life of the battery for this battery, maybe others are cheaper.

The solar train is in motion around 2h a day on the current timetable, roughly 20min an hour.  So you are paying for a battery for just 2h a day.

Feed in Tariff around 8-12c/kW according to a few sites I googled for the area, off-peak Tariff is similar, maybe a 1-3c/kW more expensive. So for those 2h a day you are feeding in you are being paid roughly the same as you can buy back from the grid in off-peak late at night. So basically cost neutral or very close to it. Battery has no economic advantage and the train is still "carbon neutral".

Option 2, avoid the off-peak charge, bigger battery on train to accept more charge when plugged in. More solar panels on the train also.

Back to my tram option
As an example, Z1/2 class tram from Melbourne
- weight 19 t
- 4 x 57kW motors
- Feed in voltage is 600VDC,

A standard 60kW Tesla car battery is 375 V, so two of these batteries in series would be suitable supply for 120 kW which in theory would run the tram at full power for ~30min, a condition the tram would never operate in.  Just power to track speed then mostly coast the remaining distance with slight touch of the throttle occasionally.

install a short overhead section at each station for charging the battery. On arrival raise the pano for charging, on departure lower. Could be hard wired to the throttle control.

Assume track speed of 50km/h, then Mull'by achieved in about 20 min with stop at North Byron.

Stations are cheaper, as lower height. Very little modification to the tram. If you have some concerns on charge, throw in a small gen-set, that is back up power to enable return to home under its own power or mostly operate as a range extender for the battery.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Sim's
https://www.canstarblue.com.au/electricity/peak-off-peak-electricity-times/

These prices are very concerning

In this situation, using average 20kW per day, if you had a 6.6kW PV array with a 13kW battery, you could probably avoid most of the peak power prices. Lets say 16 kW / day is used in the "peak" tariff, $8 /day or $3000 pa. That goes along way to funding a PV/battery installation with payback within 6 years.

During off-peak you can run drier, washing machine, pool pump etc.

Flat rate of around 26c/kW still leaves you with expensive power when not on PV/battery even at 2am.

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner

This is why anybody who had a solar system in NSW at those 60c rates have now installed a battery system at the new rates. Origin is offering a tesla system that you can pay off in monthly or quarterly payments. I just finished talking to my solar provider to upgrade to a 10kw/h system and adding an extra battery pack to take my battery storage to 10kw. No where near $15,000. In fact prices are about a fifth of that now.

Basically if you export any electricity then you are losing money.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
This is why anybody who had a solar system in NSW at those 60c rates have now installed a battery system at the new rates. Origin is offering a tesla system that you can pay off in monthly or quarterly payments. I just finished talking to my solar provider to upgrade to a 10kw/h system and adding an extra battery pack to take my battery storage to 10kw. No where near $15,000. In fact prices are about a fifth of that now.

Basically if you export any electricity then you are losing money.
simstrain
You might want to check the detail on the batteries.

The $14k for the Tesla battery is fully installed and includes some other parts including an inverter that may need to be bought separately. The raw price for the 13.5kW Tesla is A$10,000 or $740/kW including inverter. Teslas are not the cheapest but not the most expensive either.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

You might want to check the detail on the batteries.

The $14k for the Tesla battery is fully installed and includes some other parts including an inverter that may need to be bought separately. The raw price for the 13.5kW Tesla is A$10,000 or $740/kW including inverter. Teslas are not the cheapest but not the most expensive either.
RTT_Rules

I know how much I paid in 2018 and it wasn't $15k for a battery and inverter. For about 8k we got an extra 1.6kw of solar panels, a 5kw inverter, a 5kw battery and installation through solar shop. Just waiting on a reply back from them as to what they upgrade is going to cost.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
You might want to check the detail on the batteries.

The $14k for the Tesla battery is fully installed and includes some other parts including an inverter that may need to be bought separately. The raw price for the 13.5kW Tesla is A$10,000 or $740/kW including inverter. Teslas are not the cheapest but not the most expensive either.

I know how much I paid in 2018 and it wasn't $15k for a battery and inverter. For about 8k we got an extra 1.6kw of solar panels, a 5kw inverter, a 5kw battery and installation through solar shop. Just waiting on a reply back from them as to what they upgrade is going to cost.
simstrain
Battery is 1/3 the size, it will be 1/3 the price - what ever govt subsidy and also depends on type and source of panels etc. 1,6kW is very much on the small size, standard has been 5kW / 6.6 kW unless you are roof constrained.

Their website doesn't give any information.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Less then a third the price because the battery doesn't cost $5,000. Also I can stack my batteries as my needs grow by adding one or more 5kw batteries.

Again getting off topic but really this topic of the old rail line is sort of a dead horse. Aside from the byron solar train extending to Mullumbimby there is no future for this rail line.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Less then a third the price because the battery doesn't cost $5,000. Also I can stack my batteries as my needs grow by adding one or more 5kw batteries.

Again getting off topic but really this topic of the old rail line is sort of a dead horse. Aside from the byron solar train extending to Mullumbimby there is no future for this rail line.
simstrain
So lets do the maths

I can buy a new Tesla Powerwall 2, rated at 13.5kW including inverter for the house at around A$10k plus install and has the largest range of working temperature as I think the only one with water cooling, probably not important in Sydney. But if you are in areas of altitude, down south or in hotter climates and you want to install outside, but still away from direct sunlight you need to consider.

So if you are buying a 5kW battery you are paying a few hundred less than $3700 because just a battery should be cheaper than a battery with combined inverter.

I'm not saying or recommending Powerwall by any means, just going by your replies you seem to be comparing grapes hanging on the vine with watermelons loaded in the box.

If buying 5kW battery's I think I know what type you are getting and they are modular in stack?

When we move home, we will likely be in a "hinterland" area in SEQ or inland Nth rivers border ranges where overnight temps will hit zero and most likely off-grid so I'm looking at min of 20kW of storage. While its hard to find prices online as most of the websites are actually small businesses in a dynamic and competitive industry, what I've been looking at is probably around $25k (2022 dollars). 2 x Powerwall (or similar), 6.6kW PV system, but considering 10kW (Mono's) as wife wants an small/mid electric car. If 6.6kW, I need to check if a 1kW wind turbine can be added as an alt to more solar as in this region if its windy its usually cloudy.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Less then a third the price because the battery doesn't cost $5,000. Also I can stack my batteries as my needs grow by adding one or more 5kw batteries.

Again getting off topic but really this topic of the old rail line is sort of a dead horse. Aside from the byron solar train extending to Mullumbimby there is no future for this rail line.
So lets do the maths

I can buy a new Tesla Powerwall 2, rated at 13.5kW including inverter for the house at around A$10k plus install and has the largest range of working temperature as I think the only one with water cooling, probably not important in Sydney. But if you are in areas of altitude, down south or in hotter climates and you want to install outside, but still away from direct sunlight you need to consider.

So if you are buying a 5kW battery you are paying a few hundred less than $3700 because just a battery should be cheaper than a battery with combined inverter.

I'm not saying or recommending Powerwall by any means, just going by your replies you seem to be comparing grapes hanging on the vine with watermelons loaded in the box.

If buying 5kW battery's I think I know what type you are getting and they are modular in stack?

When we move home, we will likely be in a "hinterland" area in SEQ or inland Nth rivers border ranges where overnight temps will hit zero and most likely off-grid so I'm looking at min of 20kW of storage. While its hard to find prices online as most of the websites are actually small businesses in a dynamic and competitive industry, what I've been looking at is probably around $25k (2022 dollars). 2 x Powerwall (or similar), 6.6kW PV system, but considering 10kW (Mono's) as wife wants an small/mid electric car. If 6.6kW, I need to check if a 1kW wind turbine can be added as an alt to more solar as in this region if its windy its usually cloudy.
RTT_Rules

That 13.5kv tesla powerwall is $15k on the origin energy website. Not sure where you got the $10k from.
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
Less then a third the price because the battery doesn't cost $5,000. Also I can stack my batteries as my needs grow by adding one or more 5kw batteries.

Again getting off topic but really this topic of the old rail line is sort of a dead horse. Aside from the byron solar train extending to Mullumbimby there is no future for this rail line.
So lets do the maths

I can buy a new Tesla Powerwall 2, rated at 13.5kW including inverter for the house at around A$10k plus install and has the largest range of working temperature as I think the only one with water cooling, probably not important in Sydney. But if you are in areas of altitude, down south or in hotter climates and you want to install outside, but still away from direct sunlight you need to consider.

So if you are buying a 5kW battery you are paying a few hundred less than $3700 because just a battery should be cheaper than a battery with combined inverter.

I'm not saying or recommending Powerwall by any means, just going by your replies you seem to be comparing grapes hanging on the vine with watermelons loaded in the box.

If buying 5kW battery's I think I know what type you are getting and they are modular in stack?

When we move home, we will likely be in a "hinterland" area in SEQ or inland Nth rivers border ranges where overnight temps will hit zero and most likely off-grid so I'm looking at min of 20kW of storage. While its hard to find prices online as most of the websites are actually small businesses in a dynamic and competitive industry, what I've been looking at is probably around $25k (2022 dollars). 2 x Powerwall (or similar), 6.6kW PV system, but considering 10kW (Mono's) as wife wants an small/mid electric car. If 6.6kW, I need to check if a 1kW wind turbine can be added as an alt to more solar as in this region if its windy its usually cloudy.
RTT_Rules
Call me pedantic but I think you mean to say kWh when describing battery capacity? kW is instantaneous power and should be used when describing the generation of the a Photo-Voltaic system as you have done. Otherwise the math does not work.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Call me pedantic but I think you mean to say kWh when describing battery capacity? kW is instantaneous power and should be used when describing the generation of the a Photo-Voltaic system as you have done. Otherwise the math does not work.
arctic
yes yes yes

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