Ad Met goings on -

 
  doyle Assistant Commissioner

Can't edit from phone

Option 2 should read
Rail tunnel under Cross Rd

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  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Someone told me that it will definitely be tolled but I haven't seen any information regarding this on the state government website... although maybe I'm looking at the wrong one?
  doyle Assistant Commissioner

Tolled.. in Adelaide.. never
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Tolled.. in Adelaide.. never
doyle
Hey, that enormous conglomerate Transurban is probably wooing the SA government as we speak.

"You could have it finished in half the time with our money you know. Here, have another glass of Veuve Clicquot. What are you doing after politics? We're always looking for handsome, strapping ex-government leaders on our board..."
  doyle Assistant Commissioner

I hope not  this motorway tunnel thingy might end up like plan x and be unused
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The motorway will be in a tunnel from south of Daws Road and coming back to surface level north of Cross Road, which rules out a rail underpass unless it is very deep underneath the motorway

In my view it comes down to two options:

1. Rail overpass.

2. Rail remains at grade, main freight movements between NSM and SE Freeway prioritised for grade separation using overpass ramps.
  doyle Assistant Commissioner

That would mean Emerson overpass gone

It's a perfectly OK interchange, tunnel should rise south of cross Rd to use the bridge
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The old overpass will certainly be removed. It's inadequate to carry the NSM in its current form (only two lanes each way, and no full lane shoulder) and building another one alongside to add the extra capacity will be nowhere near as sensible as keeping the TBMs going under Cross Road.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The old overpass will certainly be removed. It's inadequate to carry the NSM in its current form (only two lanes each way, and no full lane shoulder) and building another one alongside to add the extra capacity will be nowhere near as sensible as keeping the TBMs going under Cross Road.
justapassenger
Could still carry the slip road over the railway line? Or are you saying you think the activity of the tunnel boring machines underneath will necessitate the demolition of the overpass above.

Also you seem to be thinking that the SE Fwy from Glen Osmond and the South Road motorway will be connected at Emerson - but there's nothing on the drawing board yet apart from whining from the trucking industry that they think this is going to be necessary. Given the sheer expense of the South Road project I'd imagine that any link down Cross Road would have to be decades away...
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Yes, the overpass will have to go to allow the tunnels to be built directly instead of having a pair of chicanes weaving around the overpass sub-structure.

The overpass is due for replacement anyway. It was built by the Tonkin government nearly 40 years ago, and is always just one inspection away from immediate closure due to concrete cancer.

The lack of a decision on how to link the M1 and M2 means options have to be kept open for what happens after that. The government will have to act quickly if they want to come up with some intentional link other than Cross Road, because the default result if nothing gets trucks will start using Cross Road as soon as stage 2 is opened.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
How much traffic  enters or leaves South Road between Ayliffes Road and Anzac Highway having entered from beyond those roads?

The traffic generators are Castle Plaza, Bunnings and the shops opposite, and Stratco further down south of Daws Road.

This will dictate which intermediate roads will need to have tunnel access, those roads being primarily Daws and Cross Roads and possibly Mitchell Street.

If removing through traffic from the surface road quietens it down sufficiently and the tunnels are sufficiently deep, then there is no real need to alter the Cross Road - South Road intersection.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I think the aim would be to have no interchanges in the tunnels, with traffic for those cross roads uses the capacity released on the surface road by putting all the through traffic in the tunnels. It would be like a scaled up version of the effect that the O-Bahn tunnel had on all the other roads in the area around Hackney.

I don’t know of a Mitchell St in that area, is that perhaps a former name for a road?

If the tunnel can be built around the existing overpass without sharp curves or unacceptable gradients leading to the Black Forest portal, then the overpass can stay.
If not, it gets removed and the whole intersection left at grade until the future of Cross Road is decided.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
I don’t know of a Mitchell St in that area, is that perhaps a former name for a road?
justapassenger
Sorry - Edward Street which forms part of the Grange Road / Edward Street / Raglan Avenue / Bray Street corridor from Belair Road to Morphett Road.

The 190 bus to and from Glenelg via Unley and Belair Roads runs along it and Raglan Avenue runs next to Castle Plaza.

I would think that a lot of traffic enters or leaves South Road in the kilometre south of Edward Street along which are no fewer than 5 sets of traffic lights (and traffic delays even during the day).

I was thinking of the Mitchell Street which runs from the Hyde Park pub to Goodwood Road.    It changes its name from Park Street which runs from Belair Road to the Hyde Park.

Main South Road through Reynella and Morphett Vale is very quiet during the day with through traffic using the expressway instead.     I see no difference north of Tonsley.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I think the aim would be to have no interchanges in the tunnels, with traffic for those cross roads uses the capacity released on the surface road by putting all the through traffic in the tunnels. It would be like a scaled up version of the effect that the O-Bahn tunnel had on all the other roads in the area around Hackney.

I don’t know of a Mitchell St in that area, is that perhaps a former name for a road?

If the tunnel can be built around the existing overpass without sharp curves or unacceptable gradients leading to the Black Forest portal, then the overpass can stay.
If not, it gets removed and the whole intersection left at grade until the future of Cross Road is decided.
justapassenger
It'll be interesting to see how they engineer the whole thing and if they make allowances for a connection to Glen Osmond in the future.

I'm still a big fan of the idea that they should 'cut and cover' where-ever possible just because it's the cheapest and most efficient option - much of the London Tube was built this way in the 19th century and it's still a method in ready use now - the biggest obstacle is the fact that they have to close the surface road temporarily while they do that.

Personally I think it would be an ideal solution to connect Glen Osmond with Black Forest - cut and cover all the way down Cross Road.

Also I have to say I'm not a fan of the idea that there'll be no interchanges along the bored tunnel route - when I go down South Road I usually go to Melrose Park so the tunnel wouldn't be of use to me if there's no interchange there. I guess the advantage is in the fact that through-traffic is permanently diverted off South Road making it quieter.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

It'll be interesting to see how they engineer the whole thing and if they make allowances for a connection to Glen Osmond in the future.

I'm still a big fan of the idea that they should 'cut and cover' where-ever possible just because it's the cheapest and most efficient option - much of the London Tube was built this way in the 19th century and it's still a method in ready use now - the biggest obstacle is the fact that they have to close the surface road temporarily while they do that.

Personally I think it would be an ideal solution to connect Glen Osmond with Black Forest - cut and cover all the way down Cross Road.
don_dunstan
The hydrology west of Fullarton Road might be enough to void the 'wherever possible' part, or at least tip things in favour of an elevated expressway.

I wouldn't rule out an option based on Glen Osmond Road and Greenhill Road (i.e. linking at Mile End South, not Black Forest) too soon either.  There would be benefits for City and Airport traffic as well as providing the M1-M2 link.

Also I have to say I'm not a fan of the idea that there'll be no interchanges along the bored tunnel route - when I go down South Road I usually go to Melrose Park so the tunnel wouldn't be of use to me if there's no interchange there. I guess the advantage is in the fact that through-traffic is permanently diverted off South Road making it quieter.
don_dunstan
It's only a 4km tunnel, seems to me like quite a reasonable gap to have between interchanges when the motorway runs in parallel to a four lane road.

If you're travelling to the midpoint of that section, the difference in time between the 80 km/h motorway and 60 km/h on South Road would be somewhere between less than a minute and maybe two minutes if you get caught at traffic lights.
  doyle Assistant Commissioner

I wouldn't rule out an option based on Glen Osmond Road and Greenhill Road (i.e. linking at Mile End South, not Black Forest) too soon either.  There would be benefits for City and Airport traffic as well as providing the M1-M2 link.

That is more logical.

And a connection that involves Richmond Rd, South Rd (surface) James Congdon Drive as an elongated interchange for city traffic and traffic to M1

while Cross Rd would be just like Portrush Rd as it is now

eventually a rail bridge over South and Cross Rds

http://www.roadpage.com.au
  doyle Assistant Commissioner

Come on who clicked on that link
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

This Friday is the last day of Tonsley Line services to Clovelly Park.

After a couple of weeks of Woodlands-Clovelly substitute buses and some Seaford express trains having extra stops in the inner suburbs, the Flinders Line (including new Tonsley and Flinders stations) will commence weekday services some time in the first half of December (subject to all testing and training going well) with weekend service currently scheduled to start on 26 December.
  Yappo Station Master

This Friday is the last day of Tonsley Line services to Clovelly Park.

After a couple of weeks of Woodlands-Clovelly substitute buses and some Seaford express trains having extra stops in the inner suburbs, the Flinders Line (including new Tonsley and Flinders stations) will commence weekday services some time in the first half of December (subject to all testing and training going well) with weekend service currently scheduled to start on 26 December.
justapassenger
I read "first weeks of Dec" to mean not before mid Dec so that appears to be at least a 3 week shutdown? http://dit.sa.gov.au/news?a=750272

Might it not have been better to shut down the line in Jan 2021 when everything is quieter rather than disrupting late Nov and Dec services when schools are still open?
  4BJ Chief Commissioner

Location: Backside trackside at Hawthorn near Mitcham
I was a passenger on the last train to Tonsley before the Tonsley line was closed for electrification.  I was a passenger on the first train to Tonsley when the Tonsley line was reopened after electrification.  I was a passenger on the last train to the original Tonsley station.  I will be a passenger on the last train to Clovelly Park.
  4BJ Chief Commissioner

Location: Backside trackside at Hawthorn near Mitcham
As I indicated on my previous post, I was a passenger on the last train to Clovelly Park.  I was the only passenger when the train departed Adelaide.  The train was 4018 and it departed from Platform 2.  It left Adelaide on the Down Belair and was switched over to the Down Seaford at Mile End.  There were two other passengers.  One boarded at Adelaide Showground and alighted at Woodlands Park.  The other passenger boarded at Clarence Park and alighted at Emerson.  So I became the last passenger to alight from a train at Clovelly Park and after a cigarette, I became the last passenger to board a train at Clovelly Park.  On the return journey, a passenger boarded at Mitchell Park.  Instead of continuing to Adelaide, I alighted at Goodwood.  The other passenger also alighted at Goodwood.  So chances are the last train from Clovelly Park arrived in Adelaide with no passengers.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

This Friday is the last day of Tonsley Line services to Clovelly Park.

After a couple of weeks of Woodlands-Clovelly substitute buses and some Seaford express trains having extra stops in the inner suburbs, the Flinders Line (including new Tonsley and Flinders stations) will commence weekday services some time in the first half of December (subject to all testing and training going well) with weekend service currently scheduled to start on 26 December.
I read "first weeks of Dec" to mean not before mid Dec so that appears to be at least a 3 week shutdown? http://dit.sa.gov.au/news?a=750272

Might it not have been better to shut down the line in Jan 2021 when everything is quieter rather than disrupting late Nov and Dec services when schools are still open?
Yappo
With the disruption of the last few days, you would certainly expect it to be closer to three weeks than two. I wouldn't rule out service commencing on a day other than Monday though as it has happened in the past.

Now is a great time to do it. The universities are done for the year and senior school students are done as well, so there's most of your education traffic gone from the line. It should be open in time for the Test and other holiday events, plus summer intensives at the universities.
  4BJ Chief Commissioner

Location: Backside trackside at Hawthorn near Mitcham
So now we have another First to look forward to.  The first train to Flinders.  At the time of this post, all we know is that it will be on a weekday in early December.  I intend to be a passenger on the first train.  Assuming the proposed timetable on the AdMet site is THE timetable, I will be boarding the train at Goodwood.  I could get a taxi or Uber to Adelaide, for which I would pay through the nose.  Being someone who likes the odd drop, I must prioritise.

The first weekend train to Flinders is scheduled for December 26.  I hope to be a passenger on that train (again boarding at Goodwood), but it will depend on where I am the day before.  Plans have not been finalised, so all I know at the moment is I will be in Gawler or Murray Bridge.  Having far flung relatives can be a curse.  Things could be worse.  One of my brothers lives in Tasmania.

Good news that is totally off topic.  My 2021 Big Bang calendar, which I ordered on Amazon, arrived on Friday, eleven days earlier than I expected.  Amy is both Miss May and Miss December.

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