Some campers are not happy

Didn't I see that image on TV some time back? Old news...

Don,
You have now harped on for a number of pages about how the lockdowns are economically destructive, yes we all know they are.

You have also called the Boomers Gen greedy.

You have also harped on about how the bug only really affects the aged, who you are indicating will die anyway so why are we trying so hard to protect?

You are conveniently using the Australia CV stats to justify your argument when the Australian experience was just a minor lick of the virus and skewed by entering a few old age care facilities. Where as in populations where the virus has been far more prevalent, ie UK, US, EU the impact on the sub 50's is alot higher statistically.


I have seen repeated comments by others in other forums and like you they all fail to offer even a half thought out alternative solution. So Don, please lets hear your solution?

Before you start, remember a few things.
- Around 15% of the adult population under the age of 65 are diabetic
- Around 5% of the adult population under the age of 65 have asthma
- Plus what ever are obese
- Plus what ever have health conditions
- Plus what ever are currently immune depressed due to various reasons including organ transplant, cancer treatment etc

All of which are health issues that actual taxpayers live with, not just OAP in the final years of their life.

So the worn out and useless comment of just lock those at risk up and let the rest continue really needs a rethink, it hasn't worked anywhere.

Waiting....

I have seen repeated comments by others in other forums and like you they all fail to offer even a half thought out alternative solution. So Don, please lets hear your solution?

The money quote

I'd like to hear more stories of how Don's friends are 'doing it hard' by having to delay their mortage payments or dip into their super. I know, it sounds like poverty p04n, but it does give us perspective on how some Aussies are really battling. My grandmother used to tell a story of a local merchant who'd wander the streets of her village back in the day in the old country, selling 'rabbit' and he sure got plenty of takers, but she woudn't buy it because she knew it was really cat, and anyway she had a few chooks so she was living the life of Riley, and then the stories got less and less pleasant, but nothing matched this delaying mortgage payments or dipping into super to make ends meet. What can we do Don? What would you do if you had your hands on the levers?

Don,
You have now harped on for a number of pages about how the lockdowns are economically destructive, yes we all know they are.

You have also called the Boomers Gen greedy.

You have also harped on about how the bug only really affects the aged, who you are indicating will die anyway so why are we trying so hard to protect?

So the worn out and useless comment of just lock those at risk up and let the rest continue really needs a rethink, it hasn't worked anywhere.

Waiting....

Now you've poked the bear Shane...

Now you've poked the bear Shane...

A couple of days ago, I tried and he declined to answer because he reckoned I was just looking for something more to bash him over the head with. I wonder if the requests by RTT and billybaxter will gather any sensible replies.

Don,
You have now harped on for a number of pages about how the lockdowns are economically destructive, yes we all know they are.

You have also called the Boomers Gen greedy.

You have also harped on about how the bug only really affects the aged, who you are indicating will die anyway so why are we trying so hard to protect?

So the worn out and useless comment of just lock those at risk up and let the rest continue really needs a rethink, it hasn't worked anywhere.

Waiting....

Now you've poked the bear Shane...

Nup, you're far more abusive than I could ever be to someone who disagrees with me, Mike.

Now you've poked the bear Shane...

A couple of days ago, I tried and he declined to answer because he reckoned I was just looking for something more to bash him over the head with. I wonder if the requests by RTT and billybaxter will gather any sensible replies.

I'm glad to hear you finally acknowledge on the last page that you and your family have actually been extremely lucky out of this thing and are doing better than most.

I'm just curious though - where did I ever say that I had the answer to this thing? I've been describing what's going on, I've been pointing out this strategy is going to destroy the economy. But I don't think I've ever said to anyone here on this board that I knew what the strategy was to avoid economic meltdown AND manage the virus in a way that would satisfy the many  extremely frightened people out there.

You're welcome to trawl back through my posts and find where I apparently said that if you like.

I'd like to hear more stories of how Don's friends are 'doing it hard' by having to delay their mortage payments or dip into their super. I know, it sounds like poverty p04n, but it does give us perspective on how some Aussies are really battling. My grandmother used to tell a story of a local merchant who'd wander the streets of her village back in the day in the old country, selling 'rabbit' and he sure got plenty of takers, but she woudn't buy it because she knew it was really cat, and anyway she had a few chooks so she was living the life of Riley, and then the stories got less and less pleasant, but nothing matched this delaying mortgage payments or dipping into super to make ends meet. What can we do Don? What would you do if you had your hands on the levers?

Billy, you think the world is run by a cabal of pedophiles. I really can't be bothered with you, mate.

Don,
You have now harped on for a number of pages about how the lockdowns are economically destructive, yes we all know they are.

You have also called the Boomers Gen greedy. Again, where did I say that I had the answer?

No. What I actually said was that the young were copping most of the economic consequences of this thing to protect the most elderly victims.

There's a big difference between "greedy" and that observation; this is the umpteenth time on this thread that I've had to correct you people for "...but you said". I didn't say that at all.

You have also harped on about how the bug only really affects the aged, who you are indicating will die anyway so why are we trying so hard to protect? You are conveniently using the Australia CV stats to justify your argument when the Australian experience was just a minor lick of the virus and skewed by entering a few old age care facilities. Where as in populations where the virus has been far more prevalent, ie UK, US, EU the impact on the sub 50's is alot higher statistically. I have seen repeated comments by others in other forums and like you they all fail to offer even a half thought out alternative solution. So Don, please lets hear your solution?

Again, where did I say that I had the answer? Links please.

- Around 15% of the adult population under the age of 65 are diabetic - Around 5% of the adult population under the age of 65 have asthma - Plus what ever are obese - Plus what ever have health conditions - Plus what ever are currently immune depressed due to various reasons including organ transplant, cancer treatment etc All of which are health issues that actual taxpayers live with, not just OAP in the final years of their life. So the worn out and useless comment of just lock those at risk up and let the rest continue really needs a rethink, it hasn't worked anywhere. Waiting....

Why is it up to me to come up with the answer? Where did I say that I had a better strategy for dealing with it?

We'll see what the alternative plan for dealing with COVID is over the next twelve months as the various governments run out of money. At the moment we're dependent on the largess of the Bank of Japan buying our bonds but that can't possibly go on for another 12 months or Commonwealth debt will be scraping $2,000,000,000,000. What will happen then?

Our most brilliant scientists and our clever politicians are going to come up with a new solution as our country runs out of resilience and money in the face of having to deal with this thing. So you'll get your answer soon enough.

Bwahaahahaha

COVID-19 infections reported in Antarctica

The coronavirus is believed to have detected in Antarctica - the last remaining continent unaffected by the infectious disease.

Spanish media reported as many as 36 Chileans stationed at a remote army base in Antarctica have been diagnosed with the virus. The Department of Foreign Affairs has begun making inquiries, despite the base being located far from Australia’s base in Antarctica’s east.

Don,
You have now harped on for a number of pages about how the lockdowns are economically destructive, yes we all know they are.

You have also called the Boomers Gen greedy. Again, where did I say that I had the answer?

No. What I actually said was that the young were copping most of the economic consequences of this thing to protect the most elderly victims.

There's a big difference between "greedy" and that observation; this is the umpteenth time on this thread that I've had to correct you people for "...but you said". I didn't say that at all.

You have also harped on about how the bug only really affects the aged, who you are indicating will die anyway so why are we trying so hard to protect? You are conveniently using the Australia CV stats to justify your argument when the Australian experience was just a minor lick of the virus and skewed by entering a few old age care facilities. Where as in populations where the virus has been far more prevalent, ie UK, US, EU the impact on the sub 50's is alot higher statistically. I have seen repeated comments by others in other forums and like you they all fail to offer even a half thought out alternative solution. So Don, please lets hear your solution?

Again, where did I say that I had the answer? Links please.

- Around 15% of the adult population under the age of 65 are diabetic - Around 5% of the adult population under the age of 65 have asthma - Plus what ever are obese - Plus what ever have health conditions - Plus what ever are currently immune depressed due to various reasons including organ transplant, cancer treatment etc All of which are health issues that actual taxpayers live with, not just OAP in the final years of their life. So the worn out and useless comment of just lock those at risk up and let the rest continue really needs a rethink, it hasn't worked anywhere. Waiting....

Why is it up to me to come up with the answer? Where did I say that I had a better strategy for dealing with it?

We'll see what the alternative plan for dealing with COVID is over the next twelve months as the various governments run out of money. At the moment we're dependent on the largess of the Bank of Japan buying our bonds but that can't possibly go on for another 12 months or Commonwealth debt will be scraping $2,000,000,000,000. What will happen then?

Our most brilliant scientists and our clever politicians are going to come up with a new solution as our country runs out of resilience and money in the face of having to deal with this thing. So you'll get your answer soon enough.

Don Said
"And destroying the economy to save people over 60 ISN'T selfish? C'mon Graham, this whole argument has been about self-interest right from the start - protecting the Baby Boomers who pillaged the wealth of this country and now want to continue to deprive the young of a proper start in life because they don't want to die.

It's impossible to imagine a generation more selfish than the Boomers."
You called the Boomers, "selfish, self-interest, pillagers as a starter. Ironically the Boomers are not even in the age group of those most vulnerable you refer to as Boomers are less than 75 yrs. The people you are actually saying not worth protecting are the Depression /war children, good one Don!

Your ongoing focus on the aged and their risk to the virus despite being near death or suffering from the debilitating effects of aging so whats the point. Don, I think most people will quietly agree with you if you have someone with dementure or server medical conditions and especially if in pain, yeah well it might be a blessing in disguise. But unfortunately the virus isn't that choosey and is taking out the seniors who are not in this situation. Also, maybe listen to a few health experts on how these people are dying and you may think twice, they dont' simply fall asleep, no they struggle on every breath, often in pain. Boris Johnston talked about the two nurses that helped him. He's not thanking them for taking his temp and tucking him in, no he was thanking them for them sitting alongside and coaching him through every breath for a few days.

Don said
"Why is it up to me to come up with the answer? Where did I say that I had a better strategy for dealing with it?"

Pretty much exactly the answer I think I was expecting. Yes you would smeg no end regardless what the govt does.

Your $2T (assumed Fed) debt scare mongering also has no basis. Its not even $1T, the country isn't going to enter lockdown, at the moment only selected parts and for much shorter periods. The vaccine is also being rolled out globally and while not perfect is will prevent the hospital beds from filling and over filling which is where people die at much higher rates than Australia has previously experienced. As someone else rightly posted using a graph, the number of people that need the vaccine urgently is small. You don't need to vaccine 25m people before getting any relief on the hospitals. Also future lockdowns will and are being more localised.

Australia like NZ being island nations are in the position to eliminate the virus, the problem is the state govt's keep stuffing up and refuse to use basic commonsense and ensure people don't board flights without a negative PCR test.


The upside in all this and the latest UK strain is that each new strain will normally be less deadly than the past, just like SARS-1.

Open our international and state  borders let the virus rip
mandate NO mask wearing no number limits on any venues semi automatics guns for all
ban all unions and political parties except the lnp/IPA of course
no tax for the rich tax the hell out of the average worker casualised the entire workforce raise the retirement age to 90 a massive pay rise for all politicians and pay each member of their families $250k per year plus 2 week annual holidays in Hawaii
reduce the dole to $20 a day turn all the unemployed into baristas universal pension at $500 a fortnight close all schools and universities privatise all hospitals scrap Medicare what the hell scrap the welfare system the one for the poor blow up more of our heritage sites sell all our food production farms and factories to the Chinese charge every one $100 a day for breathing that'll do it

(you should see the sms I send to my children no spaces between words)

Pentecostal today

Open our international and state  borders let the virus rip
mandate NO mask wearing no number limits on any venues semi automatics guns for all
ban all unions and political parties except the lnp/IPA of course
no tax for the rich tax the hell out of the average worker casualised the entire workforce raise the retirement age to 90 a massive pay rise for all politicians and pay each member of their families $250k per year plus 2 week annual holidays in Hawaii
reduce the dole to $20 a day turn all the unemployed into baristas universal pension at $500 a fortnight close all schools and universities privatise all hospitals scrap Medicare what the hell scrap the welfare system the one for the poor blow up more of our heritage sites sell all our food production farms and factories to the Chinese charge every one $100 a day for breathing that'll do it

(you should see the sms I send to my children no spaces between words)

Pentecostal today

Can I get an AMEN

You'll all get Hallelujah and a amen my brothers

Pastor Doyle

close to the edge tax free church
Paypal account 6666

I'm just curious though - where did I ever say that I had the answer to this thing? I've been describing what's going on, I've been pointing out this strategy is going to destroy the economy. But I don't think I've ever said to anyone here on this board that I knew what the strategy was to avoid economic meltdown AND manage the virus in a way that would satisfy the many  extremely frightened people out there.

Precisely.
Everything you have written has been criticism with not a hint of what you think should be done. That's why we're all asking for your solutions.
We said the same about O'Brien, the idiot Victorian Opposition Leader - all he did was whinge and complain.

Don Said
And destroying the economy to save people over 60 ISN'T selfish? C'mon Graham, this whole argument has been about self-interest right from the start - protecting the Baby Boomers who pillaged the wealth of this country and now want to continue to deprive the young of a proper start in life because they don't want to die.

It's impossible to imagine a generation more selfish than the Boomers."You called the Boomers, "selfish, self-interest, pillagers as a starter. Ironically the Boomers are not even in the age group of those most vulnerable you refer to as Boomers are less than 75 yrs. The people you are actually saying not worth protecting are the Depression /war children, good one Don!

Did I actually say that they weren't worth protecting, Shane? No, I didn't.

This is just degenerating into another boring game of "gotcha"...

Your ongoing focus on the aged and their risk to the virus despite being near death or suffering from the debilitating effects of aging so whats the point. Don, I think most people will quietly agree with you if you have someone with dementure or server medical conditions and especially if in pain, yeah well it might be a blessing in disguise. But unfortunately the virus isn't that choosey and is taking out the seniors who are not in this situation. Also, maybe listen to a few health experts on how these people are dying and you may think twice, they dont' simply fall asleep, no they struggle on every breath, often in pain. Boris Johnston talked about the two nurses that helped him. He's not thanking them for taking his temp and tucking him in, no he was thanking them for them sitting alongside and coaching him through every breath for a few days.

This actually has very little to do with what you were discussing with me.

Don said "Why is it up to me to come up with the answer? Where did I say that I had a better strategy for dealing with it?" Pretty much exactly the answer I think I was expecting. Yes you would smeg no end regardless what the govt does. Your $2T (assumed Fed) debt scare mongering also has no basis.

We will get to two trillion, Shane, there's no doubt whatsoever in my mind. It'll be easy - we went from $450 billion to a trillion in less than a year - we can reach two trillion easily especially if a Labor government comes into office federally. Those people are staunch believers in Keynesian economics and will keep spending until the dead horse they've been flogging rises from the grave and ascends into heaven. They'll make the LNP look like a model of restraint by comparison.

The rest of the stuff you talk about there is just your opinion on how this thing will unfold and I really don't think its necessary for me to comment on.

Precisely.
Everything you have written has been criticism with not a hint of what you think should be done. That's why we're all asking for your solutions.

When have I ever - EVER - said that I have all the answers? I'm describing what the problem is.

We said the same about O'Brien, the idiot Victorian Opposition Leader - all he did was whinge and complain.

Be an effective Opposition Leader in other words.

People seem to be forgetting about the long term effects and complication's from this, tonight on the ABC, there was a story where a study had been done which has said that up to 40% of those studied in Australia have suffered from Long Covid- this is chest pains, light headedness and other symptoms, there was a young fellow called Ben, who is still seeking treatment 10 MONTHS after he had it, I would argue that this is why we are being so careful about this, to save the Healthcare lots of money into the future.

no tax for the rich tax the hell out of the average worker casualise the entire workforce

Hey wait a sec, this part looks familiar...

When have I ever - EVER - said that I have all the answers? I'm describing what the problem is.

I think you are being deliberately obtuse. We all know you're describing the problem. We are all agreed that you have never claimed to have answers.  That's why we are all asking for them now. OK?

"Hey wait a sec, this part looks familiar...

sorry about that it's already happening

Michel de Nostredame Doyle

Don, whether or not you've already said what those in control should be doing really is BESIDE THE POINT. I'm just asking you to grasp the opportunity now and tell us what you would do. If you've got no ideas, if you're happy to rest back and say 'they're doing a poor job of this' and prefer to add nothing positive, so be it. But when people are very critical of the work of others, it generally looks better if they add some positive suggestions. Otherwise you look like nothing better than a Moaning Minnie, and sure you're better than that.

We said the same about O'Brien, the idiot Victorian Opposition Leader - all he did was whinge and complain.

Be an effective Opposition Leader in other words.

Which is exactly what O'Brien has so far demonstrated not to be, being constantly negative and playing to peoples fears during a time crisis just made him look uncaring and out of touch. When people are talking about Tim Smith as a possible leadership contender should be enough to show how ineffective O'Brien has been to date.