The Ashes 2021/2022

 
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
I agree. I can't see that he has done anything particularly wrong. Consenting adults in private is nobody else's business.
I guess it's because sexting is a thing, and it was covered up. If Australia's other captain (the PM) was similarly exposesd, even if it was consensual, would you apply the same amount of latitude?
She was, apparently, so shocked, appalled and dismayed that it took her seven months to complain?
YM-Mundrabilla
TBH I don't know the ins and outs of the whole incident, but yeah, I don't think seven months is a long time. I feel the same way about historic rape allegations in that the victim should always have an open path to make a complaint even if it was years later. If the pain is still that strong after that long, then it needs to be taken seriously.

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  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
THE basic and all-important question: was it consensual, or not? If it was, there's nothing to do; if it wasn't; let her loose at him regardless of any 7 months time span.

Meanwhile, 'twas interesting to see tonight's news. Paine said that the moment it all blew up, he told his wife everything. Well, yes; what choice did he have?
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

I hope I'm wrong here, but this smells an awful lot like the way the NSW Libs use ICAC to get rid of Premiers who are too moderate.

Did "they" give T Paine the tap on the shoulder, only for him to say "no thanks, I'm not retiring yet"?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I hope I'm wrong here, but this smells an awful lot like the way the NSW Libs use ICAC to get rid of Premiers who are too moderate.

Did "they" give T Paine the tap on the shoulder, only for him to say "no thanks, I'm not retiring yet"?
"djf01"
Are you serious? It's very simple; if they don't want him, they drop him. Just ask Bill Lawry.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

'As soon as Cricket Tasmania was made aware, it undertook an investigation that determined the interaction was consensual, private, occurred on the one occasion only, was between mature adults and was not repeated,” Gaggin said in a statement.

In its statement, Cricket Tasmania added: “The allegations raised against Tim Paine by a former Cricket Tasmania employee were only brought to the attention of Cricket Tasmania when formal charges of theft were laid against that employee in mid 2018."

Cricket Tasmania Chairman, Andrew Gaggin, said there was no complaint raised at the time of the incident in November 2017, nor when the employee’s position with the organisation was terminated.'

     - The Internet
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

I hope I'm wrong here, but this smells an awful lot like the way the NSW Libs use ICAC to get rid of Premiers who are too moderate.

Did "they" give T Paine the tap on the shoulder, only for him to say "no thanks, I'm not retiring yet"?
Are you serious? It's very simple; if they don't want him, they drop him. Just ask Bill Lawry.
Valvegear
Unfortunately, yes (I was being reasonably serious).

Our selectors have a degree of independence that didn't exist in 1972.

The players are starting to get a bit uppity in terms of picking and choosing tours, complaining about bio-security bubbles etc.

I'm not usually a big fan of conspiracy theories, but this whole episode stinks to high heaven.  If it was consensual, there is no issue - or shouldn't be.  So why has it come out now?  

It just stinks like the administrators at CA have decided they want a change at the top now, rather than mid-series - and they want the selectors to show faith in their players - so have pulled out the dirt file when T Paine refused to retire voluntarily.

OK, so this is straight from the draw with my tin-foil hat in it.  But I still think it stinks.

Todd Carney for Australian Captain!
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Our selectors have a degree of independence that didn't exist in 1972.
djf01
Tell that to the selectors who picked Sid Barnes in the Test team in the early 1950's and were over-ridden by the Board. In case you aren't aware of it, the selectors are appointed by and answerable to Cricket Australia.

There's a very simple piece of philosophy; if it's a choice between a conspiracy and a cockup, take the cockup every time.

Why in your silliest moments you would believe that Cricket Australia can't simply drop someone is just beyond me.
I never read from anyone who wants to complicate cricket as much as you do.

Who are the uppity players?  Which tours are they declining? Who would be stupid enough to voluntarily drop himself with no guarantee of ever being selected again?

We have already seen that your tactical awareness of the game is very limited; now it's administration.

It's a simple game of bat and ball; it needs your theories like a reindeer needs a hat rack.

Edit: The selectors were Bradman, Ryder and Dwyer, and nobody in Australian Cricket had more clout than Bradman.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
'As soon as Cricket Tasmania was made aware, it undertook an investigation that determined the interaction was consensual, private, occurred on the one occasion only, was between mature adults and was not repeated,” Gaggin said in a statement.

In its statement, Cricket Tasmania added: “The allegations raised against Tim Paine by a former Cricket Tasmania employee were only brought to the attention of Cricket Tasmania when formal charges of theft were laid against that employee in mid 2018."

Cricket Tasmania Chairman, Andrew Gaggin, said there was no complaint raised at the time of the incident in November 2017, nor when the employee’s position with the organisation was terminated.'
kitchgp

So there was nothing to see then and there is nothing to see now.

The employee gets charged with Theft and she decides to burn down the house on the way out.

I can't understand why Paine had to step down.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

[I can't understand why Paine had to step down.
bevans
Probably because he’s not a complete tool, despite the convincing case made by the losses at Old Trafford and the Gabba.

If he didn’t make the decision, CA’s sponsors would have made the decision for him before the series got underway. He can come back from ‘resigned’ to some degree, but he probably wouldn’t have the ability to come back from ‘fired.’

Our selectors have a degree of independence that didn't exist in 1972.
Tell that to the selectors who picked Sid Barnes in the Test team in the early 1950's and were over-ridden by the Board. In case you aren't aware of it, the selectors are appointed by and answerable to Cricket Australia.
Valvegear
The change in recent years is that the CEO picks the captain and gets their choice approved by the Board, rather than the Board making the choice.

There's a very simple piece of philosophy; if it's a choice between a conspiracy and a cockup, take the cockup every time.
Valvegear
Especially when Cricket Australia is involved.

The organisation has a horrific record of mismanagement - and I’d suggest that the 2018 decision to appoint the subject of an ongoing integrity unit investigation is just the latest example.

Someone else could have led the team through the remainder of the doomed South Africa tour and the off-season ODI/T20 tours. There was no need to handcuff themselves to Paine at the time.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Unfortunately there is no obvious choice for captain. Warner is an individualist and should not be burdened with the role, Smith - tried and found wanting because he couldn't or wouldn't exercise proper control in SA; Harris, Labuschagne and Green too inexperienced, Head and Khawaja both fighting over one spot, Paine - enough said, Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood and Lyon, no captaincy experience.

I'm glad that I don't have to choose the captain. Whoever gets the nod is on a hiding to nothing. Cummins is the most probable.

The huge problem with this mess is that the plethora of coaches surrounding the team will end up with far more on-field influence than they should have. Why we need batting, bowling and fielding coaches for a Test team is absolutely beyond me. Nobody playing Test cricket should need coaching; if he/she does, it's go back to District/Club level and learn the game.

In South Africa we had the ultimate horrible example; 16 players and 22 support staff.

By huge contrast, Don Bradman led a five-month tour to England in 1948 with 17 players, a manager, a masseur and a scorer/baggage man, and the team played six days a week, finishing undefeated. Years later, Ian Chappell said, " I had it easy; there was only one person (the manager) whom I had to tell to p1ss off."
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Biggest shame is the retirement of James Patterson. Should have had a stellar career. Reminds me of the waste of previous fast bowling talents like Bruce Reid and Damien Fleming.
Fleming is the unluckiest; he would have two Test hat tricks to his credit if Shane Warne hadn't dropped a sitter at first slip to deprive him of hat trick no 2. At the time, some gratuitous advice from the outer was "Catch it in your big mouth, Warne."
Valvegear
Yes I was watching when it happened.

In Steve Waugh's memoir he said Fleming was the bowler, other than Warne, who was most likely to suddenly conjure up an unplayable delivery out of nowhere. In the mid 90s Fleming was actually seen as the guy to take over as the spearhead from McDermott. The 1995 tour of the Windies changed that.

In my time watching, which ended some time ago now, I think that the strongest attack we fielded was McGrath, Gillespie, Fleming, Warne.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
In my time watching, which ended some time ago now, I think that the strongest attack we fielded was McGrath, Gillespie, Fleming, Warne.
Mr. Lane
Interesting.

I reckon that Lillee, Thomson, Walker and Mallett, of 1974/75 would run them close with, of course, your selection having the superior spinner. One thing that helped the "Lillian Thomson" opening attack was the best slip field combination I ever saw; Chappell I, Chappell G, Walters, Redpath, Mallett from 1st slip to gully.  

Another pretty useful attack was Lindwall, Miller, Johnston and Toshack in 1948 in England.

One piece of nostalgia is Australia's new ball attack in the 5th Test v England in Melbourne in 1959:- Davidson and Lindwall,  two of the most classic bowling actions one could ever wish to see.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I would suggest that some iteration of the McGrath/Warne/others attack is Australia's greatest.

The success they achieved came at the time of the playing conditions being most stacked in favour of batting, playing against opponents like Lara, Tendulkar, Vaughan, Kallis.


Back to the present, the first major shifts by sponsors have already happened. Alinta have edited a couple of promo videos and Cummins has now moved into Paine's spot standing next to Lanning on the Australian cover graphics for the Cricket 22 video game.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

In my time watching, which ended some time ago now, I think that the strongest attack we fielded was McGrath, Gillespie, Fleming, Warne.
Interesting.

I reckon that Lillee, Thomson, Walker and Mallett, of 1974/75 would run them close with, of course, your selection having the superior spinner. One thing that helped the "Lillian Thomson" opening attack was the best slip field combination I ever saw; Chappell I, Chappell G, Walters, Redpath, Mallett from 1st slip to gully.  

Another pretty useful attack was Lindwall, Miller, Johnston and Toshack in 1948 in England.

One piece of nostalgia is Australia's new ball attack in the 5th Test v England in Melbourne in 1959:- Davidson and Lindwall,  two of the most classic bowling actions one could ever wish to see.
Valvegear

All well before my time I am afraid, of course I have read about all the greats, but without seeing them in action at the time I am not qualified to compare them to contemporary players.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
ABC Now Reporting


Former test captain Tim Paine has advised Cricket Australia he will be taking a leave of absence from all forms of cricket "for the foreseeable future".

Paine resigned from the captaincy last Friday after sexually explicit texts he had sent to a former female colleague at Cricket Tasmania became public. The 36-year-old was due to play for Tasmania in its one-day match against Western Australia today at Bellerive, but has now made himself unavailable for selection.

He was available for selection for the Ashes series, but struggled with the bat while playing for Cricket Tasmania's second XI during the week, as he made his comeback from surgery on a bulging disc in his neck.

"Following discussions over the last 24 hours, Tim Paine has advised Cricket Tasmania that he will be taking a leave of absence from all forms of cricket for the foreseeable future," a statement from Cricket Tasmania said.

"Tim's decision makes him unavailable for selection for today's Marsh One-Day Cup match against Western Australia. His place in the squad will be taken by Charlie Wakim.

"Cricket Tasmania will continue to support Tim and his family both professionally and personally over the summer." On Tuesday, the board of Cricket Tasmania condemned Cricket Australia's (CA) treatment of Paine over the sexting scandal.

A Cricket Australia investigation in 2018 cleared Paine of any breach of the code of conduct over the text message exchange with a female colleague.
Somebody

Not good.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
At his age, that spells the end of Paine's career. It's a great pity, because he did such a good job of repairing the Australian team's image and reputation after the disaster of South Africa. Unfortunately, he will probably be better remembered for the lapse of judgement in his personal life.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Pat Cummins is set to be named Australia’s 47th men’s Test captain on Friday, while Steve Smith is in-line to become his deputy in a return to the leadership team for the first time since the infamous sandpaper scandal.

Cummins, 28, is understood to be confirmed as Tim Paine’s replacement as the man that will lead Australia out against England at The Gabba on December 8.

The decision comes a week after Paine sensationally resigned following a texting scandal which had lingered in the background for years but not come out in public. Paine on Friday withdrew from all forms of cricket and a new player will wear the gloves.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
Some may disagree with me here, but I think Smith is deserved of a 2nd chance, he did lack judgement of course when it came to "sandpapergate" in South Africa, a tougher captain would have sent that idea packing, as well as the individual too maybe, but Smith brings experience to the role, he knows how to set the field for certain conditions, I'd expect Cummins to do most of that, but Smith would have a say of course.

The above is only my opinion.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Some may disagree with me here, but I think Smith is deserved of a 2nd chance, he did lack judgement of course when it came to "sandpapergate" in South Africa, a tougher captain would have sent that idea packing, as well as the individual too maybe, but Smith brings experience to the role, he knows how to set the field for certain conditions, I'd expect Cummins to do most of that, but Smith would have a say of course.

The above is only my opinion.
lsrailfan
At the time, I reckon the three should have been rubbed out for life. CA determined their punishment which they have served. No issue with a second chance.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

No doubt that Paine is as good as retired from Test cricket. In Australia you would have to be an extremely good player to be able to walk away from the game and then walk back in again without proving yourself at domestic level.

I can see him being able to return to domestic T20 next season if he wants to do it, and his prospects there will be helped by being available for the full BBL season.

Some may disagree with me here, but I think Smith is deserved of a 2nd chance, he did lack judgement of course when it came to "sandpapergate" in South Africa, a tougher captain would have sent that idea packing, as well as the individual too maybe, but Smith brings experience to the role, he knows how to set the field for certain conditions, I'd expect Cummins to do most of that, but Smith would have a say of course.

The above is only my opinion.
lsrailfan
I thought Smith was a touch too defensive as Test captain, with the result of Australia often getting into a strong position and then failing to close out the match. Even with that in mind I think he would still have a better overall view of a Test than Cummins.

It would not be out of the question for CA to appoint Cummins as the captain for political purposes and Smith as vice-captain, but with the understanding being that on the field Cummins and Smith would be more co-captains.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I think that Smith is just not captaincy material. He was quite rigid in the way he manipulated his attack and, when Plan A failed to yield a wicket there was no obvious Plan B. I also doubt whether he has the strength of character to tell the coach very firmly that, "I am in charge on the field".
The simple fact is, as I have already said, that there is no stand-out candidate. Since Benaud retired, the captaincy has gone to the best batsman - Simpson, Lawry, I Chappell, G Chappell, Yallop, Hughes, Border, Taylor, S Waugh, Ponting, Clarke and so on. The stand out captains in that lot are Ian Chappell and Taylor. Border grew into the role simply because there was just no viable alternative, but it took a long time.
It has to be Cummins now. If not, why would he ever have been named as vice captain?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
It would not be out of the question for CA to appoint Cummins as the captain for political purposes and Smith as vice-captain, but with the understanding being that on the field Cummins and Smith would be more co-captains.
"justapassenger"
Never! Captaincy by consensus just doesn't work. One man is the boss. By all means have the team meeting before the game where everyone is welcome to contribute but, after that, the captain is it.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Telling the current head coach where to go won't be a problem, the entire playing group has been doing that for months.

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