Malinauskas tweeted out a picture of himself at the meeting talking in front of a meeting and said something about discussing the transport problems of the hills at a meeting he'd attended so I assumed they'd organised it. So shoot me.

When the Revolution comes you can rely on it

Half this board is convinced that I'll be the one doing the shooting.

I'm still not sure what the point of that gab-fest was - nobody (Liberal or Labor) will stump up the money to reinstate even a very basic Adelaide Hills rail service, it's all a moot point.

I'm still not sure what the point of that gab-fest was - nobody (Liberal or Labor) will stump up the money to reinstate even a very basic Adelaide Hills rail service, it's all a moot point.

Things must be viewed with wider context.
Any transport options espoused by any government persuasions will have to be very carefully considered for reaction from constituents in regard to, but not restricted to, environmental impacts including fossil fuel use. Note that doing nothing has no quantifiable impact on emissions and any government doesn't have to answer questions about emissions that they haven't had an impact on.
Doing nothing is a very likely outcome.

I'm still not sure what the point of that gab-fest was - nobody (Liberal or Labor) will stump up the money to reinstate even a very basic Adelaide Hills rail service, it's all a moot point.Things must be viewed with wider context.
Any transport options espoused by any government persuasions will have to be very carefully considered for reaction from constituents in regard to, but not restricted to, environmental impacts including fossil fuel use. Note that doing nothing has no quantifiable impact on emissions and any government doesn't have to answer questions about emissions that they haven't had an impact on.
Doing nothing is a very likely outcome.

It's a real shame as I think we're at a point now with greater Adelaide where we could indeed have a diesel longer-distance service say Mt Barker to Virginia running on standard gauge and providing alternatives to buses and driving. Hills residents obviously do have a major choke-point with the Heysen tunnels now because any time anything goes wrong with trucks (and its always trucks!) on that road the whole thing tends to get shut down.

The problem is that we're going to be flat out trying to complete the South Project which I've heard is going to be in the vicinity of $7-$10 billion and we just don't have the kind of money that the eastern states do with major public transport projects, particularly expanding inter-urban rail.

Unless Marshall suddenly finds a money tree we'll be stuck with the status quo.

I'm still not sure what the point of that gab-fest was - nobody (Liberal or Labor) will stump up the money to reinstate even a very basic Adelaide Hills rail service, it's all a moot point.Things must be viewed with wider context.
Any transport options espoused by any government persuasions will have to be very carefully considered for reaction from constituents in regard to, but not restricted to, environmental impacts including fossil fuel use. Note that doing nothing has no quantifiable impact on emissions and any government doesn't have to answer questions about emissions that they haven't had an impact on.
Doing nothing is a very likely outcome.

It's a real shame as I think we're at a point now with greater Adelaide where we could indeed have a diesel longer-distance service say Mt Barker to Virginia running on standard gauge and providing alternatives to buses and driving. Hills residents obviously do have a major choke-point with the Heysen tunnels now because any time anything goes wrong with trucks (and its always trucks!) on that road the whole thing tends to get shut down.

The problem is that we're going to be flat out trying to complete the South Project which I've heard is going to be in the vicinity of $7-$10 billion and we just don't have the kind of money that the eastern states do with major public transport projects, particularly expanding inter-urban rail.

Unless Marshall suddenly finds a money tree we'll be stuck with the status quo.

The south rd tunnels project has already risen to $9.9 billion. One would expect that the final cost will increase futher, perhaps $11B to $12B? Just a third of that could fund significant expansion and improvement to the PT network in Adelaide....

It announced last month in the state budget that the project had ballooned by $1 billion to $9.9 billion to include three lanes each way rather than two.

The Marshall govt won't spend anything to improve or expand the suburban network apart from a paltry $11m a year for the next decade for stations upgrades. Perhaps an option for those advocating for the unlikely & fanciful notion of reopening of the Hills line is to promote more pop growth in the area.

Greater Mt Barker pop is currently 38k forecast to be 50k by the end of the decade and 57k by 2036. If you get everyone in the area procreating even more than they currently are and encourage new immigrants to move there, you might increase that growth to around 80k-90k by 2050. Then a rail mass transit option does become much more possible to receive govt support and you have a decade of lobbying and canvassing vatrious options ahead of you.

Longer term the best bet is to start a social media company which becomes worth hundreds of billions and then fund your own 15km twin tunnels from Mitcham to Bridgewater with a deep underground station at Stirling.  

The south rd tunnels project has already risen to $9.9 billion. One would expect that the final cost will increase futher, perhaps $11B to $12B? Just a third of that could fund significant expansion and improvement to the PT network in Adelaide....

The whole thing has been over-engineered to buggery in my opinion, should have at least considered the option of an elevated road-way between Edwardstown and Daw Park where its all lined by commercial property anyway, there's no reason why it couldn't have been canvassed as an option apart from being afraid of NIMBY's - bored tunnel will take way too long and be way too expensive.

I can't see us getting out of this without a toll being applied. I think it will probably happen when Labor inevitably regain office next March since the Shoppies have been even more gung-ho for privatisation than the Liberals in this state. Privatising the whole project would at least leave them some money for other things as you say -

I'll put money on the probability that Transurban, the monopoly toll-road owner in this nation, ends up with the project as EastLink did in Victoria - probably $20 end-to-end, yet another direct cost burden for Adelaide residents to shoulder.

The Marshall govt won't spend anything to improve or expand the suburban network apart from a paltry $11m a year for the next decade for stations upgrades. Perhaps an option for those advocating for the unlikely & fanciful notion of reopening of the Hills line is to promote more pop growth in the area.

Greater Mt Barker pop is currently 38k forecast to be 50k by the end of the decade and 57k by 2036. If you get everyone in the area procreating even more than they currently are and encourage new immigrants to move there, you might increase that growth to around 80k-90k by 2050. Then a rail mass transit option does become much more possible to receive govt support and you have a decade of lobbying and canvassing vatrious options ahead of you.

Longer term the best bet is to start a social media company which becomes worth hundreds of billions and then fund your own 15km twin tunnels from Mitcham to Bridgewater with a deep underground station at Stirling.  

This rampant development was never supposed to happen - we were theoretically going to have a 'no large scale development' in the hills whatsoever due to water catchment issues but for some reason Mt Barker completely ran away from them... the power of developers and their donations, hey.

Agreed, can't see inter-urban services happening in the longer term unless there's an organised group of locals who really want the service to be reinstated using the standard gauge line and the spur from Mt Barker Junction - and they'd have to battle against the hills NIMBY's who don't want to encourage more growth than is already happening. Infrastructure-wise the most formidable obstacle perhaps being sharing the track with ARTC trains and the lack of appropriate passing loops - but otherwise it's probably 'do-able' particularly if you could also use the same gauge-converted 3000's out the other side to perhaps Virginia which is in itself becoming a developer's playground thanks in part to the new Northern Expressway.

We're poor is the problem - we just don't have the rivers of stamp duty cash that NSW and VIC have or the enormous amounts of iron ore and gold that WA has. We have this 'space precinct' thing happening at the old Royal Adelaide site but frankly that's just another corporate welfare boondoggle like the Multi-Function Polis, Marshall was trumpeting the relocation of Google from Sydney to that site earlier this year but then refused to answer questions about how much money they'd given them. The whole thing is a joke, once the government money runs out those rent-seekers will be off to whoever gives them even more money...

I travelled by very high speed rail from Irun to Madrid. The train started as broad gauge, went through a shed at walking speed without stopping and emerged as standard gauge running at 300 k/h. Lots of rail routes in Spain use this system. What you do is convert MtBarker to the Junction to SG, run through the interstate station area to a shed which regauges to BG for the run into ARS. It is existing technology, you just need train paths through the hills which, in peak, is a busy stretch. MB to MBJ needs upgrading to decent speed standard and you need a crossover at Keswick. You can't run dual gauge on the ARTC, the rail size is too big and it would disrupt interstaters for months. An hourly service needs 2 train sets, half hourly needs 4. I am guessing that we only need special bogies and these can be fitted to existing trains.
Alternatively have the gauge change at Belair to reduce the need to share with ARTC.

I travelled by very high speed rail from Irun to Madrid. The train started as broad gauge, went through a shed at walking speed without stopping and emerged as standard gauge running at 300 k/h. Lots of rail routes in Spain use this system. What you do is convert MtBarker to the Junction to SG, run through the interstate station area to a shed which regauges to BG for the run into ARS. It is existing technology, you just need train paths through the hills which, in peak, is a busy stretch. MB to MBJ needs upgrading to decent speed standard and you need a crossover at Keswick. You can't run dual gauge on the ARTC, the rail size is too big and it would disrupt interstaters for months. An hourly service needs 2 train sets, half hourly needs 4. I am guessing that we only need special bogies and these can be fitted to existing trains.
Alternatively have the gauge change at Belair to reduce the need to share with ARTC.

And how much would this all cost?

I travelled by very high speed rail from Irun to Madrid. The train started as broad gauge, went through a shed at walking speed without stopping and emerged as standard gauge running at 300 k/h. Lots of rail routes in Spain use this system. What you do is convert MtBarker to the Junction to SG, run through the interstate station area to a shed which regauges to BG for the run into ARS. It is existing technology, you just need train paths through the hills which, in peak, is a busy stretch. MB to MBJ needs upgrading to decent speed standard and you need a crossover at Keswick. You can't run dual gauge on the ARTC, the rail size is too big and it would disrupt interstaters for months. An hourly service needs 2 train sets, half hourly needs 4. I am guessing that we only need special bogies and these can be fitted to existing trains.
Alternatively have the gauge change at Belair to reduce the need to share with ARTC.

And how much would this all cost?

Why does that matter?

I travelled by very high speed rail from Irun to Madrid. The train started as broad gauge, went through a shed at walking speed without stopping and emerged as standard gauge running at 300 k/h. Lots of rail routes in Spain use this system. What you do is convert MtBarker to the Junction to SG, run through the interstate station area to a shed which regauges to BG for the run into ARS. It is existing technology, you just need train paths through the hills which, in peak, is a busy stretch. MB to MBJ needs upgrading to decent speed standard and you need a crossover at Keswick. You can't run dual gauge on the ARTC, the rail size is too big and it would disrupt interstaters for months. An hourly service needs 2 train sets, half hourly needs 4. I am guessing that we only need special bogies and these can be fitted to existing trains.
Alternatively have the gauge change at Belair to reduce the need to share with ARTC.

And how much would this all cost?

Why does that matter?

The education system in this country has a lot to answer for

I travelled by very high speed rail from Irun to Madrid. The train started as broad gauge, went through a shed at walking speed without stopping and emerged as standard gauge running at 300 k/h. Lots of rail routes in Spain use this system. What you do is convert MtBarker to the Junction to SG, run through the interstate station area to a shed which regauges to BG for the run into ARS. It is existing technology, you just need train paths through the hills which, in peak, is a busy stretch. MB to MBJ needs upgrading to decent speed standard and you need a crossover at Keswick. You can't run dual gauge on the ARTC, the rail size is too big and it would disrupt interstaters for months. An hourly service needs 2 train sets, half hourly needs 4. I am guessing that we only need special bogies and these can be fitted to existing trains.
Alternatively have the gauge change at Belair to reduce the need to share with ARTC.

And how much would this all cost?

Why does that matter?

The education system in this country has a lot to answer for

Excuse me. But I really like trains. I would like to see more trains doing more things in my state. I have seen a train do a thing in another country and I think trains here should do it to.

I do not understand why the cost of doing such a thing is relevant. How much I like trains is the relevant factor when it comes to whether we should have more trains doing more things.

I travelled by very high speed rail from Irun to Madrid. The train started as broad gauge, went through a shed at walking speed without stopping and emerged as standard gauge running at 300 k/h. Lots of rail routes in Spain use this system. What you do is convert MtBarker to the Junction to SG, run through the interstate station area to a shed which regauges to BG for the run into ARS. It is existing technology, you just need train paths through the hills which, in peak, is a busy stretch. MB to MBJ needs upgrading to decent speed standard and you need a crossover at Keswick. You can't run dual gauge on the ARTC, the rail size is too big and it would disrupt interstaters for months. An hourly service needs 2 train sets, half hourly needs 4. I am guessing that we only need special bogies and these can be fitted to existing trains.
Alternatively have the gauge change at Belair to reduce the need to share with ARTC.

Does this system comply with our stringent Australian Design Standards ?

I travelled by very high speed rail from Irun to Madrid. The train started as broad gauge, went through a shed at walking speed without stopping and emerged as standard gauge running at 300 k/h. Lots of rail routes in Spain use this system. What you do is convert MtBarker to the Junction to SG, run through the interstate station area to a shed which regauges to BG for the run into ARS. It is existing technology, you just need train paths through the hills which, in peak, is a busy stretch. MB to MBJ needs upgrading to decent speed standard and you need a crossover at Keswick. You can't run dual gauge on the ARTC, the rail size is too big and it would disrupt interstaters for months. An hourly service needs 2 train sets, half hourly needs 4. I am guessing that we only need special bogies and these can be fitted to existing trains.
Alternatively have the gauge change at Belair to reduce the need to share with ARTC.

For the small amounts of broad gauge it would encounter such a complicated system would not be necessary here in South Australia. You're talking about a dual-gauge spur of just over a kilometre for it to get from the ARTC standard gauge into Adelaide Station - that would be vastly cheaper than some complicated gauge-changing system. And not a problem being dual gauge because the speeds are very low at that point anyway.

The train paths on the ARTC train aren't the issue, its the capacity of the trains to work around ARTC traffic and keep to a time-table that would be the primary issue, for which you'd probably need passing loops and $$$.

An investment surely into SG into the Adelaide Station would open up the ability for trains to the north west of the state.

Why are we talking about people travelling TO Adelaide?

Surely once the place is empty, there will no longer be any need for trains to return there, as nobody surely would want to? Hence any work to enhance capacity would only be useful for a relatively short time.

BORING. Adelaide is a fine town. I certainly prefer it to Brisbane and Perth. Lovely climate, lovely people, all the facilities one needs....a charming location.

I'll put money on the probability that Transurban, the monopoly toll-road owner in this nation, ends up with the project as EastLink did in Victoria - probably $20 end-to-end, yet another direct cost burden for Adelaide residents to shoulder.Agreed, can't see inter-urban services happening in the longer term unless there's an organised group of locals who really want the service to be reinstated using the standard gauge line and the spur from Mt Barker Junction - and they'd have to battle against the hills NIMBY's who don't want to encourage more growth than is already happening. Infrastructure-wise the most formidable obstacle perhaps being sharing the track with ARTC trains and the lack of appropriate passing loops - but otherwise it's probably 'do-able' particularly if you could also use the same gauge-converted 3000's out the other side to perhaps Virginia which is in itself becoming a developer's playground thanks in part to the new Northern Expressway.

That's twice you've suggested a SG line to Virginia if Mt Barker was to reopen. Why create a new problem of incompatibility with the suburban network? I really don't see the value of this suggestion.

I'm all for a new suburban line to Virginia in the next 10-15 years but it should just be a spur line off the Gawler line should it not? There is plenty of space in the ROW to have an electrified BG track alongside or eitherside of the SG track. A Virginia line would also allow most Gawler trains to run semi express between Adel and Sailsbury.

I'll put money on the probability that Transurban, the monopoly toll-road owner in this nation, ends up with the project as EastLink did in Victoria - probably $20 end-to-end, yet another direct cost burden for Adelaide residents to shoulder.Agreed, can't see inter-urban services happening in the longer term unless there's an organised group of locals who really want the service to be reinstated using the standard gauge line and the spur from Mt Barker Junction - and they'd have to battle against the hills NIMBY's who don't want to encourage more growth than is already happening. Infrastructure-wise the most formidable obstacle perhaps being sharing the track with ARTC trains and the lack of appropriate passing loops - but otherwise it's probably 'do-able' particularly if you could also use the same gauge-converted 3000's out the other side to perhaps Virginia which is in itself becoming a developer's playground thanks in part to the new Northern Expressway.

That's twice you've suggested a SG line to Virginia if Mt Barker was to reopen. Why create a new problem of incompatibility with the suburban network? I really don't see the value of this suggestion.

I'm all for a new suburban line to Virginia in the next 10-15 years but it should just be a spur line off the Gawler line should it not? There is plenty of space in the ROW to have an electrified BG track alongside or eitherside of the SG track. A Virginia line would also allow most Gawler trains to run semi express between Adel and Sailsbury.

As you alluded, Salisbury to Virginia is ARTC standard gauge - there's no longer a broad gauge option to make it inter-operable with the suburban network unless you were to build a whole new broad gauge track along-side.  I just don't see that happening, not here in South Australia - you're talking about 14km of brand new broad gauge track. It just won't happen.

Any train service to Mt Barker would have to be standard gauge DMU since that's the only kind of track that exists there, in fact there's no possibility of Belair being electrified in the near future because ARTC want to keep overhead clearances in case they ever double-stack. Unlikely but that's the plan.

So its likely you'll have a small pool of standard gauge DMU's for that service anyway - why not make the most of them by using them on another service utilising the ARTC tracks out the other side of town - that's all I'm saying.

To be realistic I just don't feel that any of this is remotely likely: It's nearly impossible to get any expansion of the suburban network up in South Australia bar the tiny less-than-1km extension of the Tonsley line to Flinders Medical Centre.

As I recall from some 15 years ago there was a proposal to re-activate the Roseworthy-Kapunda line which made sense considering Kapunda is only some 30km from Gawler and is growing rapidly as a satellite town and district centre - but even though the track already exists in situ (albeit in a poor state) the state government just wouldn't come at it. Same with the Barrossa Valley line although there's been repeated community opposition to any rail service going there because the locals are already concerned about the rapid pace of development and they don't want to add fuel to the fire.

I'd be astonished if we saw any new major interurban or suburban services here any time in the next ten or even twenty years - we just don't have the money or the population.

Coming back to gauges and operating, there are three crossing loops between Belair and MBJ and the Overdue takes 37 minutes. You just need one gauge changer at Belair. You would convert MBJ to MB to SG and the track would need a major upgrade anyway. As I said, it is existing developed technology and can be applied without major disruption to the Interstate and TA  lines. Timetabling is not a major killer. MBJ to APT is about an hour, you would hope to reduce that but I don't see a lot of opportunity. You would have stops at Stirling Bridgewater and Aldgate with probably Blackwood. Sell coffee in the morning and booze at night and offer an all-day service
If you really wanted you could put another changer at Mawson Lakes and run to Two Wells and Virginia and even Roseworthy. Forget dual gauge, that introduces speed limits and is not compatible with 60kg rail. Make it 25 kV compatible with GT if you want or any other non-diesel system. There are a few to choose between.

I have read some YouTube comments on train enthusiast videos saying how when they rode the redhens up to bridgewater and back in the early 80's, the train was basically empty from Bridgewater to Belair, then some people would start boarding at the stops before Blackwood, and from Blackwood onwards through to the city the loadings were decent like they were on any of the other main lines at that time of day.

But Mt Barker is the target and that's a much bigger population center than it was in the early 90's when the Bridgewater service closed. Mt Barker, Littlehampton, Balhannah could be added to the service that was half empty back then, not to mention the growth from Bridgewater westwards.

Mt Barker district is planned to increase by another 9,000 in the next decade according to what I've seen - its at least worth contemplating putting an alternative to road back to the public. Virginia, another growth corridor, could be the other end of the diesel DMU standard gauge service so you could get some value from operating and maintaining that rolling stock.

Peak flow with a mid day return plus double return on weekends is the obvious starter and worked for Gympie for decades.

Low cost, targets periods of greatest use with bus providing the back up in off-peak.

In Canada the more outlying areas of Vancouver and Toronto are served by predominately inward trains in the morning, and outward trains in the evening.    For example Toronto to Barrie to the north, there are trains northwards at at 9:53, 13:53, 15:53, 16:23, 16:53, 17.23, 17:53, 18:23, 18:53, 21;53, 22:53, and south at 04:53 (non stop), 05:23, 05:53, 6:23, 6:53, 07:08, 07:38, 08:08, 09:08, 13:08 and 21:08.   Running time is 2:40.
There are only 6 pairs of trains weekends.   All services are supplemented by buses.

(Timetables at Go Transit)

To be realistic I just don't feel that any of this is remotely likely: It's nearly impossible to get any expansion of the suburban network up in South Australia bar the tiny less-than-1km extension of the Tonsley line to Flinders Medical Centre.

As I recall from some 15 years ago there was a proposal to re-activate the Roseworthy-Kapunda line which made sense considering Kapunda is only some 30km from Gawler and is growing rapidly as a satellite town and district centre - but even though the track already exists in situ (albeit in a poor state) the state government just wouldn't come at it. Same with the Barrossa Valley line although there's been repeated community opposition to any rail service going there because the locals are already concerned about the rapid pace of development and they don't want to add fuel to the fire.

I'd be astonished if we saw any new major interurban or suburban services here any time in the next ten or even twenty years - we just don't have the money or the population.

I was definately proposing building a new electrified BG line to Virginia as a spur off the Gawler line in the next 10-15yrs. That extra $1billion that the south rd project has already increased by in the last 6 months would easily pay for the line. If built, it would also allow Gawler services to run semi-express between Adel and Sailsbury decreasing travel time further up the line.

I wouldn't be so pessimistic about future exts of the suburban network even in old rail backward Adelaide. As we discussed on another thread last year there are a couple of good possibilities.

1) The 14km Aldinga ext will def be built in the next 10-15 yrs
2) A spur line to Roseworthy is a 50/50 chance in the next 20 years given future growth - as it the small ext to Concordia
3) The underground city loop will stll have some potential by 2040 as an IA project
4) We should also see the tram link proposals reborn under a future ALP govt - ext to North Adel is a no brainer as is the Airport link

Adelaide patently doesn't have the growth of Bris or Perth, but it is still projected to grow to 1.8m to 2m by 2050. That extra roughly .5m pop will require some expansion and improvement of the suburban network beyond the pathetic $111m that the current govt has allocated for the next 10 years.

Copying this post by Don_dunstan to here:

Anyway official confirmation today that the existing Liberal government isn't interested in reinstating a Mt Barker passenger rail service - Adelaide Now;

Passenger rail will not meet consumer needs with money better spent in expanding existing bus services, an independent Hills transport study has found.

Infrastructure SA today released its Mount Barker Mass Transit Study, in which it backed the State Government’s push for a rapid bus service but not passenger rail.

This is despite months of lobbying by both the Mt Barker and Adelaide Hills Councils, Kavel MP Dan Cregan and the SA Transport Action Group.

“Although a rail service could be re-established in the Hills, the existing train line would not achieve travel times competitive with current bus services or cars, despite claims to the contrary,” the report states.

“The small proportion of passengers who commute to the CBD will be required to use private vehicles to travel to stations at trip origin, interchange to a broad gauge service to reach ARS, then travel from North Terrace to their final destination, each element adding to the overall journey time.”

Travel by rail would take over 70 minutes from Mt Barker to the city, according to the study.

This compares to 39 minutes via a rapid transit bus. Kavel MP Dan Cregan said he rejected the report’s findings on passenger rail.

“I reject the finding that rail is not viable,” he said.

“An alternative study has found modern railcars with higher power-to-weight ratios can do the trip to Mount Barker in as little as 45 minutes with $70M in track improvements.

“The government walked away from Globelink and I don’t want them walking away from this latest study, too.

“After Globelink and plans to cut Hills bus routes, my community has limited confidence in public transport announcements from the government.”

Recommendations include increasing Park ‘n’ Ride capacity, bringing forward the completion of Heysen Boulevard in Mount Barker, targeted investment to improve efficiency and bus prioritisation on Glen Osmond Rd and further investment in managed motorway initiatives to better respond to incidents on the freeway and enable rapid contra-flow.

I first posted this under the Riverlea and Mt Barker thread - maybe here is more useful


It is worth restating that to be warranted, fixed track transport requires sufficient demand to be focussed on nodes, both at the ends and at a few locations along the route.

It is highly likely that an origin and destination survey of movements originating in the greater Mt Barker area would reveal that a relatively low percentage of trips end at the city or other locations adjacent to the route through the Unley, Mitcham, Blackwood, etc. On the contrary, I would suspect that it would show the majority of trip destinations were spread across the greater metro area to the south, west and north. These latter trips are and will remain, under current conditions, the domain of private transport.

The likelihood of significant increases in employment in the CBD and/or along the length of the current line through metro sufficient to justify a fixed rail solution Adelaide would be low.

It is also worthwhile considering there are changes in the charging and payment structures for road based transport already being considered and, in some cases, proposed.

The revenue stream for road transport is reliant on a fixed yearly charge (eg, registration and insurance) and a variable charge based on distance travelled (eg, taxes and levies on fuel). The introduction of EVs with the associated loss of variable revenue will demand some form of replacement "pay as you consume" system. To be efficient and effective, this will need to be automated. At the same time, it is highly likely that this would be combined with a time and place levy, that is, a variable peak congestion charge incorporating day, time and place.

Overall, this system could be structured in a way that the "average motorist" would pay no more or less than currently. The big difference would be that payment would be at the time of consumption.

The result could well be that as a society we would end up travelling less, thus reducing the consumption of resources, reducing road trauma, reducing time spent travelling and so on. Surprisingly, we could reduce mobility and increase.accessibility.

How can Australia get anywhere with corrupt to biased governments across the southern states?

Now this today https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/pm-to-reveal-final-piece-in-adelaides-south-road-puzzle/news-story/d0350e560ba2412b0dc4e6520a016666 billions on roads