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Kilmany overpass

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      DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

    Location: Banned
    Although the completion of the Princes Highway duplication between Traralgon and Sale is a road preoject, rail will be impacted at Kilmany.

    To the casual observer it looks like the present road-over-rail overpass could have easily been duplicated with minimal disruption. Instead, a 95m single span steel arch rail-over-road overpass will be constructed. Artist impression has just emerged:

    Kilmany rail bridge concept designs released Gippsland Times

    Even though the new structure will only take a week to slide into position, according to the article, unless a completely new alignment is established then I see a closure of the line beyond Traralgon for months. Not only do embankments and abutments have to be constructed for the railway, but the existing ones for the road will also have to be removed.
    Posted: 21 Dec 2021 20:46

    Last edited by DirtyBallast on 21 Dec 2021 20:48; edited 1 time in total

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      Galron Chief Commissioner

    Location: Werribee, Vic
    Although the completion of the Princes Highway duplication between Traralgon and Sale is a road preoject, rail will be impacted at Kilmany.

    To the casual observer it looks like the present road-over-rail overpass could have easily been duplicated with minimal disruption. Instead, a 95m single span steel arch rail-over-road overpass will be constructed. Artist impression has just emerged:

    Kilmany rail bridge concept designs released Gippsland Times

    Even though the new structure will only take a week to slide into position, according to the article, unless a completely new alignment is established then I see a closure of the line beyond Traralgon for months. Not only do embankments and abutments have to be constructed for the railway, but the existing ones for the road will also have to be removed.
    DirtyBallast
    They shouldn't have to do that much to keep the rail line open. perhaps adjust the alignment slightly while the construction is happening and put in the new easement on the eastern side of the existing crossing. there looks to be enough room. Build the bridge span on the ground and crane it into place. highway and rail line closed for a week, maybee 2. Plenty of diversion options nearby
    Posted: 21 Dec 2021 21:08
      historian Chief Commissioner

    To the casual observer it looks like the present road-over-rail overpass could have easily been duplicated with minimal disruption. Instead, a 95m single span steel arch rail-over-road overpass will be constructed. Artist impression has just emerged:

    Kilmany rail bridge concept designs released Gippsland Times

    Even though the new structure will only take a week to slide into position, according to the article, unless a completely new alignment is established then I see a closure of the line beyond Traralgon for months. Not only do embankments and abutments have to be constructed for the railway, but the existing ones for the road will also have to be removed.
    DirtyBallast

    I'd suspect that the overpass will be in a completely different place to the current one. Note the righthand curve in the artist's impression - the Princes Highway is dead straight where it currently crosses the railway.

    Another hint is given by the statement that the highway through Kilmany will become a service road - suggesting that the highway will be relocated past Kilmany. (This would also be why the current highway was not simply duplicated through Kilmany.)

    My suspicion is that a new highway will be built north of the railway line past Kilmany, then it will swing by a reverse curve under the line to take up the current alignment. The new bridge will be to the east of Kilmany, not the west.
    Posted: 21 Dec 2021 21:44
      DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

    Location: Banned
    This map, although wrong regarding the current road alignment, shows absolutely no deviation to the rail alignment post-project:

    https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/585074/1872-REG-PHE-Kilmany-Map-Update_WEB.pdf

    The current road alignment is actually the proposed westbound carriageway between the Swamp Rd intersection and staying straight over the overpass along what will be the service road. There is currently no sharp s-bend as indicated on the map west of the overpass, or a gentler one to the east - google earth will verify.

    The only way to duplicate the highway with a new rail-over-road overpass is to close the railway, construct a temporary side track for the highway, remove the road embankments and current overpass, construct the new highway carriageways, construct new embankments and abutments for the railway, and ONLY THEN place the new rail overpass. I reckon that will take a while!
    Posted: 21 Dec 2021 22:16

    Last edited by DirtyBallast on 21 Dec 2021 22:17; edited 1 time in total
      kitchgp Chief Commissioner

    The BigBuild website has the following:

    Rail bridge

    As a part of the upgrade, a new rail bridge will be built at Kilmany, providing a significant improvement to safety and reliability for freight, tourists and commuters while minimising any impacts on the rail network. The bridge will be a 95m long single span steel arch bridge that will be constructed offline to reduce disruptions.

    Once constructed, the bridge will be slid into its final position over the highway. We will share the designs of this rail-over-road solution with you soon.


    How capable will the 95m span be in terms of carrying rail freight?
    Posted: 22 Dec 2021 00:04

    Last edited by kitchgp on 22 Dec 2021 00:05; edited 2 times in total
      kitchgp Chief Commissioner

    It’s more likely to be road-under-rail (hence trenching of the road). Currently, as you travel westbound from Sale, after crossing over the rail line you descend into what’s probably a shallow creek bed. The road would be below the level of the rail line. The proposed solution seems to be to minimise the gradient for trucks and accommodate the ‘sort of’ roundabouts for the side roads in the area.
    Posted: 22 Dec 2021 11:22
      jakar Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Melbourne
    I constantly shake my head at the difference between road and rail projects. The Gippsland line can't get a second short bridge across the Bunyip river and track duplication due to a lack of funds, yet there's coin available to build a 95m bridge where there currently isn't one for 6 trains a day.

    Surprised they're going for a rail over road option, its a nice little 1 in 50 grade up to the current highway overpass so raising the railway isn't going to happen which means there's going to be a large amount of excavation required to get four lanes underneath it.
    Posted: 22 Dec 2021 16:41
      Myrtone Chief Commissioner

    Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
    Are there any nearby level crossings and if so, could any be closed once this bridge is opened?
    Posted: 23 Dec 2021 10:31
      duttonbay Minister for Railways

    Are there any nearby level crossings and if so, could any be closed once this bridge is opened?
    Myrtone
    There is already an overpass. The new bridge is a replacement allowing for duplication of the highway.

    To save you looking for the overpass at Kilmany with google maps, and checking for lovel crossings in the vicinity, you can start here:
    Posted: 23 Dec 2021 11:59
      Otter_H Locomotive Fireman

    One would hope that the decision makers also see this shut down as an opportunity to upgrade the track on either side of the break to a reasonable standard.
    Posted: 23 Dec 2021 19:36
      Galron Chief Commissioner

    Location: Werribee, Vic
    It should be noted that the existing road over rail is armco pipe that has been failing all over the place in recent years. A case of a good idea at the time. Would have needed replacing in the next 5-10 years regardless of this project.
    Posted: 23 Dec 2021 19:43
      Nightfire Minister for Railways

    Location: Gippsland
    It should be noted that the existing road over rail is armco pipe that has been failing all over the place in recent years. A case of a good idea at the time. Would have needed replacing in the next 5-10 years regardless of this project.
    Galron
    The ARMCO Pipes failing would be very dependent on ground conditions and If they are partly sitting In corrosive water.

    There are 100's of railway related ARMCO Pipes throughout Gippsland.
    Posted: 24 Dec 2021 17:43
      Nightfire Minister for Railways

    Location: Gippsland
    The BigBuild website has the following:

    Rail bridge

    As a part of the upgrade, a new rail bridge will be built at Kilmany, providing a significant improvement to safety and reliability for freight, tourists and commuters while minimising any impacts on the rail network. The bridge will be a 95m long single span steel arch bridge that will be constructed offline to reduce disruptions.

    Once constructed, the bridge will be slid into its final position over the highway. We will share the designs of this rail-over-road solution with you soon.


    How capable will the 95m span be in terms of carrying rail freight?
    kitchgp
    Not many grade separations have used the construct the span along side and slide Into position method, Narre Warren - Cranbourne Road grade separation at Narre Warren comes to mind and maybe Calder Freeway at Harcourt ?

    Bridge axel load would be at least 25 Tonne
    Posted: 24 Dec 2021 20:19
      justarider Chief Commissioner

    Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
    As a part of the upgrade, a new rail bridge will be built at Kilmany, providing a significant improvement to safety and reliability for freight, tourists and commuters while minimising any impacts on the rail network. The bridge will be a 95m long single span steel arch bridge that will be constructed offline to reduce disruptions.

    Not many grade separations have used the construct the span along side and slide Into position method, Narre Warren - Cranbourne Road grade separation at Narre Warren comes to mind and maybe Calder Freeway at Harcourt ?

    Bridge axel load would be at least 25 Tonne
    Nightfire
    The 2nd bridge (65m) for the Cranbourne line was cranked across Eumemmerring Creek in May 2021. Also a single span steel arch.
    why-did-the-bridge-cross-the-creek
    Posted: 24 Dec 2021 21:55

    Last edited by justarider on 24 Dec 2021 22:14; edited 1 time in total
      kitchgp Chief Commissioner



    ....................................................

    Bridge axel load would be at least 25 Tonne
    Nightfire


    Presumably it would be capable of supporting a dynamic load (80 km/h) of over 500 tonnes?
    Posted: 24 Dec 2021 22:38

    Last edited by kitchgp on 24 Dec 2021 22:40; edited 1 time in total
      trainbrain Chief Commissioner



    ....................................................

    Bridge axel load would be at least 25 Tonne

    Presumably it would be capable of supporting a dynamic load (80 km/h) of over 500 tonnes?
    kitchgp
    This method was used between Ringwood and the old Heatherdale stations, this is the bridges that now expand over the eastlink in Ringwood.
    Posted: 25 Dec 2021 07:34
      kitchgp Chief Commissioner

    That rail bridge has centre support.
    Posted: 25 Dec 2021 12:32

    Last edited by kitchgp on 25 Dec 2021 12:39; edited 2 times in total
      Upven Train Controller

    Cute bridge, let's see if it actually looks like that at completion
    Posted: 27 Dec 2021 14:10
      Nightfire Minister for Railways

    Location: Gippsland
    That rail bridge has centre support.
    kitchgp
    Where does It show that ?

    Arch bridge's don't have centre supports (that's why they are an arch)
    Posted: 27 Dec 2021 15:09
      kitchgp Chief Commissioner

    EastLink bridge.
    Posted: 27 Dec 2021 15:53

    Last edited by kitchgp on 27 Dec 2021 15:54; edited 1 time in total
      justarider Chief Commissioner

    Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
    EastLink bridge.
    kitchgp
    is NOT an arch.

    Edit   sorry kitch I misread your meaning.
    Eastlink not arch needs support, Kilmaney is arch doesn't need support

    cheers
    John
    Posted: 27 Dec 2021 16:01

    Last edited by justarider on 27 Dec 2021 17:38; edited 2 times in total
      kitchgp Chief Commissioner

    My original query wasn’t about the particular design or construction of the bridge. It was about the need for a 95m span (the crossing being angular) and whether or not it would be up to the task of carrying a 3000+ tonne freight train at 80 km/h. The bridge is not spanning a river or similar. It only has to cross an east-bound and west-bound carriageway separately. Room could easily be made for a median strip and centre support. Given this is primarily a road project, one wonders if the rail aspects have been fully considered.

    Currently, there are no regular freight trains on that section of the line (east of Traralgon), however ……………..
    Posted: 27 Dec 2021 21:03
      Nightfire Minister for Railways

    Location: Gippsland
    My original query wasn’t about the particular design or construction of the bridge. It was about the need for a 95m span (the crossing being angular) and whether or not it would be up to the task of carrying a 3000+ tonne freight train at 80 km/h. The bridge is not spanning a river or similar. It only has to cross an east-bound and west-bound carriageway separately. Room could easily be made for a median strip and centre support. Given this is primarily a road project, one wonders if the rail aspects have been fully considered.

    Currently, there are no regular freight trains on that section of the line (east of Traralgon), however ……………..
    kitchgp
    The railway bridge would be designed to the same load carrying capacity as newly completed Avon River bridge and the bridges and viaducts constructed as part of the Metropolitan level crossing removal projects.
    Posted: 27 Dec 2021 21:20
      Frank Jones Station Staff

    Location: Geelong, Victoria
    It should be noted that the existing road over rail is armco pipe that has been failing all over the place in recent years. A case of a good idea at the time. Would have needed replacing in the next 5-10 years regardless of this project.
    Galron
    No, the bridge is of conventional steel and concrete construction. See this photo by Alex's Train Channel: https://www.facebook.com/alexstrainchannel/photos/a.2300416206642086/5394309153919427/
    Posted: 02 Jan 2022 11:05

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