Russia vs. Ukraine - Potential War?

 
Topic moved from The Lounge by dthead on 17 Feb 2022 16:36
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
They’re more than a decade behind.

China are currently building their new class of cruisers (Renhai) which are a mashup of Soviet weapons, mostly pre 90s and US radars (SPY 1) from the 90s.

China make parts for the iPhone, sure, but take the parts they cannot make out of the iPhone and you’re left with a cheap paperweight - it won’t even have a battery in it.

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  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
You support the Houthi Don?
Aaron
I'm on the side of stopping the West's dirty secret proxy war that's killing thousands of civilians every year, Aaron. That's whose side I'm on.
Do you support Putin, serious question??
Israilfan
Didn't realise we had to pick a side.
  8502 Assistant Commissioner

What is this all about?

  justapassenger Minister for Railways

It is fake news

EDIT: or maybe even satire? It is so well established that Fauci is not in a witness protection program that the joke is that obvious.

EDIT 2: confirmed, it is satire. I would like to encourage @8502 to look up and see that gullible is written on the ceiling.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Fauci in witness protection was originally a metaphor used by the Governor of Florida, and it has since branched well into the realm of satire.

Some of the best satire occurs when it is indistinguishable from reality - this is not that, and yes, 8502 just looks gullible.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
If you're not sure about what day to day life in Russia and the sanctions look like, or whether they're working, take a look at this guy's channel.



https://www.youtube.com/c/LETTERSTOKING
  8502 Assistant Commissioner

This simply heartbreaking to watch.

https://t.co/SXJMPEP4O0" / Twitter

I am finding it harder and harder to have any respect for anyone connected with Russia or those who have turned a blind eye to this shocking invasion and massacre of people in the Ukraine.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
India and Russia are in negotiations for a direct trade outside of the SWIFT system of weapons and crude oil - Reuters;

NEW DELHI, March 14 (Reuters) - India may take up a Russian offer to buy crude oil and other commodities at a discount, two Indian officials said, in a sign that Delhi wants to keep its key trading partner on board despite Western attempts to isolate Moscow through sanctions.

U.S. officials have said in recent weeks they would like India to distance itself from Russia as much as possible, while recognising its heavy reliance on Moscow for everything from arms and ammunitions to missiles and fighter jets.

India has not condemned the invasion of Ukraine and abstained from voting at the United Nations calling out Russia's aggression. Russia calls its actions in Ukraine a "special operation" to demilitarise and "denazify" the country.

One person within India's security apparatus said the West understood India's position, given that it needs to keep its armed forces well supplied amid simmering territorial disputes with China.

Note that a deal has not been done yet, but India is certainly thinking about increasing two-way trade with Russia in their own currencies despite the unofficial embargo from the West.

The West is not in control of China, India or Saudi Arabia. We cannot force these nations to do our bidding.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Note that Zelensky has said in the last 24 hours that Ukraine will definitely not being joining NATO - I think Putin has made this a pre-condition of any peace agreement and Zelensky has publicly announced this in order to pave the way to a cease-fire.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
And then Ukraine will just secretly join without announcing it ahead of time to Russia and the world.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
And then Ukraine will just secretly join without announcing it ahead of time to Russia and the world.
Aaron
So if you turn out to be wrong about that and Zelensky was in fact telling the truth in order to meet Putin's peace conditions - do I get to drag it out over the course of several posts reminding you that you were wrong?

Meh, why am I even asking you - I'm going to do that anyway.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
And then Ukraine will just secretly join without announcing it ahead of time to Russia and the world.
So if you turn out to be wrong about that and Zelensky was in fact telling the truth in order to meet Putin's peace conditions - do I get to drag it out over the course of several posts reminding you that you were wrong?

Meh, why am I even asking you - I'm going to do that anyway.
don_dunstan
If you're dumb enough to consider that a factual statement, then by all means, you think that is factual? I don't know - it is something Ukraine/Zelenskyy ought to do though, in case you, and Putin have missed it, only Ukraine should dictate what Ukraine does in terms of alliances. If Putin (and by somewhat unfair extension, Russia) were so attractive as a mate, Ukraine would already be strongly allied with them.

BTW Don, where is China telling you Zelenskyy is today? Was that train ride by the Prime Minister of Poland and others to Kyiv just some sort of smoke and mirror thing? Wasn't Ukraine's resistance O V A H? Give us an update man!
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
So the Russian/Chinese bond looks to continue to strengthen weaken?

So Sergei Lavrov is the Russian Minister for Foreign Affairs, if you do not know him by name, you'll likely have seen him on TV. I understand/speak a little Russian, and whilst I generally hear hm through an interpreter, I must partially admit the man can speak - he's no idiot.

Last night he took a flight from Moscow toward China, whilst over Novosibirsk, Siberia, his plane turned around and flew back to Moscow. One of two things, or a combination of both happened to turn him back. China made a partial statement of support, and provided at least a token gesture of aid, towards Ukraine and/or the Chinese outright told Lavrov they were not interested in meeting with him.

Lavrov didn't board the flight for no reason, his plane didn't turn back for no reason, something changed en route, and I mostly suspect it was the latter. Russia could have 'spun' the Chinese aid in Ukraine as for the 'separatists' or for the 'innocent families impacted' by the Ukrainian 'Nazis' - I think China and Russia are now on less friendly terms.

Russia is going broke, China wants trade and money, do you get more money from a broke country? or more money from a more cashed up EU/US and rest of the World?
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
So the Russian/Chinese bond looks to continue to strengthen weaken?

So Sergei Lavrov is the Russian Minister for Foreign Affairs, if you do not know him by name, you'll likely have seen him on TV. I understand/speak a little Russian, and whilst I generally hear hm through an interpreter, I must partially admit the man can speak - he's no idiot.

Last night he took a flight from Moscow toward China, whilst over Novosibirsk, Siberia, his plane turned around and flew back to Moscow. One of two things, or a combination of both happened to turn him back. China made a partial statement of support, and provided at least a token gesture of aid, towards Ukraine and/or the Chinese outright told Lavrov they were not interested in meeting with him.

Lavrov didn't board the flight for no reason, his plane didn't turn back for no reason, something changed en route, and I mostly suspect it was the latter. Russia could have 'spun' the Chinese aid in Ukraine as for the 'separatists' or for the 'innocent families impacted' by the Ukrainian 'Nazis' - I think China and Russia are now on less friendly terms.

Russia is going broke, China wants trade and money, do you get more money from a broke country? or more money from a more cashed up EU/US and rest of the World?
Aaron
To the last point, B, a more cashed up society.  I'm glad that the sanctions are biting hard on Russia, hopefully this will teach them a strong lesson to mind their own business!
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
If you're dumb enough to consider that a factual statement, then by all means, you think that is factual? I don't know - it is something Ukraine/Zelenskyy ought to do though, in case you, and Putin have missed it, only Ukraine should dictate what Ukraine does in terms of alliances. If Putin (and by somewhat unfair extension, Russia) were so attractive as a mate, Ukraine would already be strongly allied with them.

BTW Don, where is China telling you Zelenskyy is today? Was that train ride by the Prime Minister of Poland and others to Kyiv just some sort of smoke and mirror thing? Wasn't Ukraine's resistance O V A H? Give us an update man!
Aaron
He might have left the country - do you know that he hasn't?

Ukraine not being in NATO was one of Putin's pre-conditions for peace, Zelenskyy is obviously paving the way to a cease-fire as any good politician would do. But you're saying you know better - that they're definitely going to do that.

Yeah right Mister University.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Russia is going broke, China wants trade and money, do you get more money from a broke country? or more money from a more cashed up EU/US and rest of the World?
Aaron
The 'developing world' is where the new consumers are - not in the West. China is playing a long game, they're not interested in in the declining empire of the Anglosphere.

But by all means explain to us how a shrinking and ageing population in the West is all China is interested in - I'm in the mood for one of your baseless, meandering polemics.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I'm glad that the sanctions are biting hard on Russia, hopefully this will teach them a strong lesson to mind their own business!
lsrailfan
They're biting hard! I linked to the 'Inside Russia' YouTube account above, he seems to be telling it close to as it is, though his 'streams' ramble a bit.

I have a friend (actually several more than one) but this one specifically, who is citizen in Australia and married to a Belarusian man. She had just managed in a small number of weeks before the special military operation in invasion of Ukraine to gain her parents the subclass 143 Visa - they paid upwards of AUD50k. They were going through the process of winding up affairs in Russia, liquidating assets, packing, complying with Covid and other medical requirements, the usual activities you might need to undertake when permanently moving a great part of the World away.

When Putin moved into Russia it took only a week for the Australian government to advise that my friend's parent's Visa had been 'suspended' and at this point, she doesn't know if she will ever see her parents again - they may never see their grandchildren.

Food like flour goes up sometimes 10-50% everyday, imported foods (if you're Russian and like western European cheeses for example) forget it, fresh fruit is almost out of the question (Russia grows probably no bananas, and whilst they have citrus, it's not a lot).

Her parents have been selling off or throwing out things, when you're in your 70s or 80s how many clothes and shoes do you need to transport out to Australia? Australia has clothing and shoe stores after all - except now Russia nearly doesn't - the stores they still have, have a lot less in them and they're EXPENSIVE.

Russia doesn't really have unemployment benefits, if you worked for a western company (Ikea, Maccas, Burger King, Subway, H&M, Zara, pretty much all the car/motorbike/truck manufacturers, Boeing/Airbus, the tech companies Apple/Microsoft/Cisco, Maersk) not only do you no longer have a job, you have no incoming money - there's a LOT of people working in some of those businesses. If you made your money selling in western food, clothing or a Toyota/Mazda/etc dealership, forget it. When the sanctions started, even if the business stayed open, you had exactly what stock was in the country to sell (tech products and cars have been constrained for two years already) and that's it.

The public will get restless at their leaders soon, forget having control in Ukraine, Putin might not even have control in Russia.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
If you're dumb enough to consider that a factual statement, then by all means, you think that is factual? I don't know - it is something Ukraine/Zelenskyy ought to do though, in case you, and Putin have missed it, only Ukraine should dictate what Ukraine does in terms of alliances. If Putin (and by somewhat unfair extension, Russia) were so attractive as a mate, Ukraine would already be strongly allied with them.

BTW Don, where is China telling you Zelenskyy is today? Was that train ride by the Prime Minister of Poland and others to Kyiv just some sort of smoke and mirror thing? Wasn't Ukraine's resistance O V A H? Give us an update man!
He might have left the country - do you know that he hasn't?
don_dunstan
The European representatives from Poland et al didn't travel to Kyiv for nothing...

Also, the man regularly goes out and films selfies with himself and soldiers in the streets of Kyiv.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Russia is going broke, China wants trade and money, do you get more money from a broke country? or more money from a more cashed up EU/US and rest of the World?
The 'developing world' is where the new consumers are - not in the West. China is playing a long game, they're not interested in in the declining empire of the Anglosphere.

But by all means explain to us how a shrinking and ageing population in the West is all China is interested in - I'm in the mood for one of your baseless, meandering polemics.
don_dunstan
Did I say the west was all China was interested in? No! I said 'China wants trade and money'.

Oh yeah, China are playing the developing world too, but they're not going to trade nothing from Russia over real money from the US/EU et al today, and it's pretty clear they're not. Eritrea? Yeah, they're not buying much.

China does more money in trade with the US alone than most 'developing' nations have in entire GDP. They're not going to risk that real money, in real amounts, right now, for a handful of whatever money Mozambique, Somalia and Liberia can each cough up.

And, because you just made that mistake, I'll make it clear for you, China will take the 'coughed up handful' of money too, but they won't take it 'instead' - get it?
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Did I say the west was all China was interested in? No! I said 'China wants trade and money'.

Oh yeah, China are playing the developing world too, but they're not going to trade nothing from Russia over real money from the US/EU et al today, and it's pretty clear they're not. Eritrea? Yeah, they're not buying much.

China does more money in trade with the US alone than most 'developing' nations have in entire GDP. They're not going to risk that real money, in real amounts, right now, for a handful of whatever money Mozambique, Somalia and Liberia can each cough up.

And, because you just made that mistake, I'll make it clear for you, China will take the 'coughed up handful' of money too, but they won't take it 'instead' - get it?
Aaron
You miss the point entirely - but that's nothing new for an Aaron diatribe.

The rest of the world versus some dying, shrinking cohort in the West? Yeah I think I know where China's long-term interests lie - and it's not with us.

Biden can threaten China with sanctions over supporting Russia with money and weapons but what will he actually do if China ignores him - gummy them to death?
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm glad that the sanctions are biting hard on Russia, hopefully this will teach them a strong lesson to mind their own business!
They're biting hard! I linked to the 'Inside Russia' YouTube account above, he seems to be telling it close to as it is, though his 'streams' ramble a bit.

I have a friend (actually several more than one) but this one specifically, who is citizen in Australia and married to a Belarusian man. She had just managed in a small number of weeks before the special military operation in invasion of Ukraine to gain her parents the subclass 143 Visa - they paid upwards of AUD50k. They were going through the process of winding up affairs in Russia, liquidating assets, packing, complying with Covid and other medical requirements, the usual activities you might need to undertake when permanently moving a great part of the World away.

When Putin moved into Russia it took only a week for the Australian government to advise that my friend's parent's Visa had been 'suspended' and at this point, she doesn't know if she will ever see her parents again - they may never see their grandchildren.

Food like flour goes up sometimes 10-50% everyday, imported foods (if you're Russian and like western European cheeses for example) forget it, fresh fruit is almost out of the question (Russia grows probably no bananas, and whilst they have citrus, it's not a lot).

Her parents have been selling off or throwing out things, when you're in your 70s or 80s how many clothes and shoes do you need to transport out to Australia? Australia has clothing and shoe stores after all - except now Russia nearly doesn't - the stores they still have, have a lot less in them and they're EXPENSIVE.

Russia doesn't really have unemployment benefits, if you worked for a western company (Ikea, Maccas, Burger King, Subway, H&M, Zara, pretty much all the car/motorbike/truck manufacturers, Boeing/Airbus, the tech companies Apple/Microsoft/Cisco, Maersk) not only do you no longer have a job, you have no incoming money - there's a LOT of people working in some of those businesses. If you made your money selling in western food, clothing or a Toyota/Mazda/etc dealership, forget it. When the sanctions started, even if the business stayed open, you had exactly what stock was in the country to sell (tech products and cars have been constrained for two years already) and that's it.

The public will get restless at their leaders soon, forget having control in Ukraine, Putin might not even have control in Russia.
Aaron
I asked for a meandering polemic and I got one - complete with irrelevant anecdote about someone trying to escape fascist Russia.

Putin is still pretty popular in Russia - he saved them from the unbridled chaos of the Yeltsin kleptocracy and lifted living standards by quite a significant amount by sharing the wealth from their resources. Average incomes went up by quite a lot in the wake of the GFC while people were still suffering in the West. If you think there's going to be some kind of colour revolution to oust him you'll be sorely disappointed - the war is actually supported by most Russians.

And McDonalds, KFC and Coca-Cola are leaving Russia - the parents of fat children will be rejoicing in the streets I'm sure. I saw a snippet of an Orthodox Russian priest at the pulpit positively bubbling about the fact that PornHub, Instagram and Facebook had been blocked in Russia - you seriously think the average Russian person is really going miss the corrupt mind-rotting filth that has infiltrated our society? I wouldn't either.

Russia has been subjected to harsh sanctions from the West for nearly two decades, a few more internet blocks won't make any difference. Hell, it might even make life better for the Russian people.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
I'm glad that the sanctions are biting hard on Russia, hopefully this will teach them a strong lesson to mind their own business!
They're biting hard! I linked to the 'Inside Russia' YouTube account above, he seems to be telling it close to as it is, though his 'streams' ramble a bit.

I have a friend (actually several more than one) but this one specifically, who is citizen in Australia and married to a Belarusian man. She had just managed in a small number of weeks before the special military operation in invasion of Ukraine to gain her parents the subclass 143 Visa - they paid upwards of AUD50k. They were going through the process of winding up affairs in Russia, liquidating assets, packing, complying with Covid and other medical requirements, the usual activities you might need to undertake when permanently moving a great part of the World away.

When Putin moved into Russia it took only a week for the Australian government to advise that my friend's parent's Visa had been 'suspended' and at this point, she doesn't know if she will ever see her parents again - they may never see their grandchildren.

Food like flour goes up sometimes 10-50% everyday, imported foods (if you're Russian and like western European cheeses for example) forget it, fresh fruit is almost out of the question (Russia grows probably no bananas, and whilst they have citrus, it's not a lot).

Her parents have been selling off or throwing out things, when you're in your 70s or 80s how many clothes and shoes do you need to transport out to Australia? Australia has clothing and shoe stores after all - except now Russia nearly doesn't - the stores they still have, have a lot less in them and they're EXPENSIVE.

Russia doesn't really have unemployment benefits, if you worked for a western company (Ikea, Maccas, Burger King, Subway, H&M, Zara, pretty much all the car/motorbike/truck manufacturers, Boeing/Airbus, the tech companies Apple/Microsoft/Cisco, Maersk) not only do you no longer have a job, you have no incoming money - there's a LOT of people working in some of those businesses. If you made your money selling in western food, clothing or a Toyota/Mazda/etc dealership, forget it. When the sanctions started, even if the business stayed open, you had exactly what stock was in the country to sell (tech products and cars have been constrained for two years already) and that's it.

The public will get restless at their leaders soon, forget having control in Ukraine, Putin might not even have control in Russia.
I asked for a meandering polemic and I got one - complete with irrelevant anecdote about someone trying to escape fascist Russia.

Putin is still pretty popular in Russia - he saved them from the unbridled chaos of the Yeltsin kleptocracy and lifted living standards by quite a significant amount by sharing the wealth from their resources. Average incomes went up by quite a lot in the wake of the GFC while people were still suffering in the West. If you think there's going to be some kind of colour revolution to oust him you'll be sorely disappointed - the war is actually supported by most Russians.

And McDonalds, KFC and Coca-Cola are leaving Russia - the parents of fat children will be rejoicing in the streets I'm sure. I saw a snippet of an Orthodox Russian priest at the pulpit positively bubbling about the fact that PornHub, Instagram and Facebook had been blocked in Russia - you seriously think the average Russian person is really going miss the corrupt mind-rotting filth that has infiltrated our society? I wouldn't either.

Russia has been subjected to harsh sanctions from the West for nearly two decades, a few more internet blocks won't make any difference. Hell, it might even make life better for the Russian people.
don_dunstan
There are insiders inside the tent that want to do Putin in.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Did I say the west was all China was interested in? No! I said 'China wants trade and money'.

Oh yeah, China are playing the developing world too, but they're not going to trade nothing from Russia over real money from the US/EU et al today, and it's pretty clear they're not. Eritrea? Yeah, they're not buying much.

China does more money in trade with the US alone than most 'developing' nations have in entire GDP. They're not going to risk that real money, in real amounts, right now, for a handful of whatever money Mozambique, Somalia and Liberia can each cough up.

And, because you just made that mistake, I'll make it clear for you, China will take the 'coughed up handful' of money too, but they won't take it 'instead' - get it?
You miss the point entirely - but that's nothing new for an Aaron diatribe.

The rest of the world versus some dying, shrinking cohort in the West? Yeah I think I know where China's long-term interests lie - and it's not with us.

Biden can threaten China with sanctions over supporting Russia with money and weapons but what will he actually do if China ignores him - gummy them to death?
don_dunstan
Why aren’t China moving then? Why did China supply aid to Ukraine? Why did China abstain and not just outright vote with Russia?

China does well over half a trillion dollars in trade with the US, they do over a third of a trillion dollars worth of trade with the EU and with Japan, they buy 120,000,000,000 dollars worth of goods from Australia (that’s LESS than their total trade with Russia) TODAY! China are not going to risk that TODAY or in the medium or even long term future over Russia OR Taiwan.

The US, EU, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Australia, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia and near any country in the world can all produce what China makes - it’s only cost that causes China to do the production that China does. China cannot produce all of what Europe, the US, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan produce - indeed as Sonofagunzel hopefully learned, China cannot even produce half of what they produce without technological input from other nations. Xi knows this.

Ever wondered why there isn’t a near perfect Apple/iPhone called, I don’t know, the ‘Lychee’ or ‘Persimmon’ or whatever? Wondered why serious rival companies like Samsung, LG, Blackberry or Nokia (when they were a serious thing) are all not Chinese, and while Oppo exists, it objectively isn’t even close to an Apple or Samsung product? Even if you think it is, it still runs a US designed and Taiwanese made processor with a Californian issued OS - China just cannot make much technology indigenously.

They are well behind where you think they are.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I'm glad that the sanctions are biting hard on Russia, hopefully this will teach them a strong lesson to mind their own business!
They're biting hard! I linked to the 'Inside Russia' YouTube account above, he seems to be telling it close to as it is, though his 'streams' ramble a bit.

I have a friend (actually several more than one) but this one specifically, who is citizen in Australia and married to a Belarusian man. She had just managed in a small number of weeks before the special military operation in invasion of Ukraine to gain her parents the subclass 143 Visa - they paid upwards of AUD50k. They were going through the process of winding up affairs in Russia, liquidating assets, packing, complying with Covid and other medical requirements, the usual activities you might need to undertake when permanently moving a great part of the World away.

When Putin moved into Russia it took only a week for the Australian government to advise that my friend's parent's Visa had been 'suspended' and at this point, she doesn't know if she will ever see her parents again - they may never see their grandchildren.

Food like flour goes up sometimes 10-50% everyday, imported foods (if you're Russian and like western European cheeses for example) forget it, fresh fruit is almost out of the question (Russia grows probably no bananas, and whilst they have citrus, it's not a lot).

Her parents have been selling off or throwing out things, when you're in your 70s or 80s how many clothes and shoes do you need to transport out to Australia? Australia has clothing and shoe stores after all - except now Russia nearly doesn't - the stores they still have, have a lot less in them and they're EXPENSIVE.

Russia doesn't really have unemployment benefits, if you worked for a western company (Ikea, Maccas, Burger King, Subway, H&M, Zara, pretty much all the car/motorbike/truck manufacturers, Boeing/Airbus, the tech companies Apple/Microsoft/Cisco, Maersk) not only do you no longer have a job, you have no incoming money - there's a LOT of people working in some of those businesses. If you made your money selling in western food, clothing or a Toyota/Mazda/etc dealership, forget it. When the sanctions started, even if the business stayed open, you had exactly what stock was in the country to sell (tech products and cars have been constrained for two years already) and that's it.

The public will get restless at their leaders soon, forget having control in Ukraine, Putin might not even have control in Russia.
I asked for a meandering polemic and I got one - complete with irrelevant anecdote about someone trying to escape fascist Russia.

Putin is still pretty popular in Russia - he saved them from the unbridled chaos of the Yeltsin kleptocracy and lifted living standards by quite a significant amount by sharing the wealth from their resources. Average incomes went up by quite a lot in the wake of the GFC while people were still suffering in the West. If you think there's going to be some kind of colour revolution to oust him you'll be sorely disappointed - the war is actually supported by most Russians.

And McDonalds, KFC and Coca-Cola are leaving Russia - the parents of fat children will be rejoicing in the streets I'm sure. I saw a snippet of an Orthodox Russian priest at the pulpit positively bubbling about the fact that PornHub, Instagram and Facebook had been blocked in Russia - you seriously think the average Russian person is really going miss the corrupt mind-rotting filth that has infiltrated our society? I wouldn't either.

Russia has been subjected to harsh sanctions from the West for nearly two decades, a few more internet blocks won't make any difference. Hell, it might even make life better for the Russian people.
don_dunstan
So Putin is a popular fascist? Why is he trying to kill nazis successfully killing citizens in Ukraine then? If he’s so popular, why the need to shut down TV and radio stations? Why arrest protesters? He’s popular, a bit of a protest and a sign on a TV broadcast shouldn’t matter.

He’s popular because he and the ruling party have a history of jailing and killing opponents.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Why aren’t China moving then? Why did China supply aid to Ukraine? Why did China abstain and not just outright vote with Russia?

China does well over half a trillion dollars in trade with the US, they do over a third of a trillion dollars worth of trade with the EU and with Japan, they buy 120,000,000,000 dollars worth of goods from Australia (that’s LESS than their total trade with Russia) TODAY! China are not going to risk that TODAY or in the medium or even long term future over Russia OR Taiwan.
Aaron
So you know how Xi Jinping thinks. You know for a fact that despite the CCP moaning 'reunification' since 1949 that they'll never actually do it.

Is there no end to your talents! We should just put you in charge of the UN Security Council because you know what world leaders are going to do even before they do.
The US, EU, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Australia, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia and near any country in the world can all produce what China makes - it’s only cost that causes China to do the production that China does. China cannot produce all of what Europe, the US, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan produce - indeed as Sonofagunzel hopefully learned, China cannot even produce half of what they produce without technological input from other nations. Xi knows this.

Ever wondered why there isn’t a near perfect Apple/iPhone called, I don’t know, the ‘Lychee’ or ‘Persimmon’ or whatever? Wondered why serious rival companies like Samsung, LG, Blackberry or Nokia (when they were a serious thing) are all not Chinese, and while Oppo exists, it objectively isn’t even close to an Apple or Samsung product? Even if you think it is, it still runs a US designed and Taiwanese made processor with a Californian issued OS - China just cannot make much technology indigenously. They are well behind where you think they are.
Aaron
So you know for a fact that the rampant intellectual property theft will STOP DEAD once China officially breaks with the West?

I'm inclined to think the OPPOSITE is going to happen - that if Trump's push to make them recognise and act on intellectual property had worked that they might have broken away from the West even faster - but (whew!) the Demmy-crats are back in power now and they're letting China steal rampantly again just how they like it. But if they try to make them obey international laws again they'll probably just tell us to shove it.

We're going to keep trading with China even if they invade Taiwan is my bet - where else can we get our boat-loads of cheap consumer goodies? Some other Asian nations might be able to replicate the things we'll need to replace but occupied Taiwan will probably continue to make those semiconductors we desire so much and things will probably go back to normal surprisingly quickly after an invasion.

And I really like how you pretend you know exactly how a behemoth like the CCP thinks and will act in the future. Again, hats off to the board resident psychic - you can predict things that even the international relations experts can't see coming.

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