Russia vs. Ukraine - Potential War?

 
Topic moved from The Lounge by dthead on 17 Feb 2022 16:36
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
So Putin is a popular fascist? Why is he trying to kill nazis successfully killing citizens in Ukraine then? If he’s so popular, why the need to shut down TV and radio stations? Why arrest protesters? He’s popular, a bit of a protest and a sign on a TV broadcast shouldn’t matter.

He’s popular because he and the ruling party have a history of jailing and killing opponents.
Aaron
Putin might be a thug but he's a thug with generally popular support among the Russian people. His popularity never went below 65% for his first two Presidencies, it soared again after he annexed Crimea. Independent surveys that I've seen say he has around 70% support from the Russian people for the invasion of Ukraine.

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  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
So Putin is a popular fascist? Why is he trying to kill nazis successfully killing citizens in Ukraine then? If he’s so popular, why the need to shut down TV and radio stations? Why arrest protesters? He’s popular, a bit of a protest and a sign on a TV broadcast shouldn’t matter.

He’s popular because he and the ruling party have a history of jailing and killing opponents.
Putin might be a thug but he's a thug with generally popular support among the Russian people. His popularity never went below 65% for his first two Presidencies, it soared again after he annexed Crimea. Independent surveys that I've seen say he has around 70% support from the Russian people for the invasion of Ukraine.
don_dunstan
That's because of the propaganda that the Russian people are being fed. if they were told the truth ,he would have WAY less support.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
So Putin is a popular fascist? Why is he trying to kill nazis successfully killing citizens in Ukraine then? If he’s so popular, why the need to shut down TV and radio stations? Why arrest protesters? He’s popular, a bit of a protest and a sign on a TV broadcast shouldn’t matter.

He’s popular because he and the ruling party have a history of jailing and killing opponents.
Putin might be a thug but he's a thug with generally popular support among the Russian people. His popularity never went below 65% for his first two Presidencies, it soared again after he annexed Crimea. Independent surveys that I've seen say he has around 70% support from the Russian people for the invasion of Ukraine.
don_dunstan

Doesn't matter if its Pauline, Donald, Clive or Vlad, 'Confused of Adelaide' will always be there waiting to put in a good word for them Razz
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
So Putin is a popular fascist? Why is he trying to kill nazis successfully killing citizens in Ukraine then? If he’s so popular, why the need to shut down TV and radio stations? Why arrest protesters? He’s popular, a bit of a protest and a sign on a TV broadcast shouldn’t matter.

He’s popular because he and the ruling party have a history of jailing and killing opponents.
Putin might be a thug but he's a thug with generally popular support among the Russian people. His popularity never went below 65% for his first two Presidencies, it soared again after he annexed Crimea. Independent surveys that I've seen say he has around 70% support from the Russian people for the invasion of Ukraine.

Doesn't matter if its Pauline, Donald, Clive or Vlad, 'Confused of Adelaide' will always be there waiting to put in a good word for them Razz
bingley hall
Where did I say I supported Putin?
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
So Putin is a popular fascist? Why is he trying to kill nazis successfully killing citizens in Ukraine then? If he’s so popular, why the need to shut down TV and radio stations? Why arrest protesters? He’s popular, a bit of a protest and a sign on a TV broadcast shouldn’t matter.

He’s popular because he and the ruling party have a history of jailing and killing opponents.
Putin might be a thug but he's a thug with generally popular support among the Russian people. His popularity never went below 65% for his first two Presidencies, it soared again after he annexed Crimea. Independent surveys that I've seen say he has around 70% support from the Russian people for the invasion of Ukraine.

Doesn't matter if its Pauline, Donald, Clive or Vlad, 'Confused of Adelaide' will always be there waiting to put in a good word for them Razz
Where did I say I supported Putin?
don_dunstan
Fair enough, DO you support Putin's actions by invading a independent country?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
So Putin is a popular fascist? Why is he trying to kill nazis successfully killing citizens in Ukraine then? If he’s so popular, why the need to shut down TV and radio stations? Why arrest protesters? He’s popular, a bit of a protest and a sign on a TV broadcast shouldn’t matter.

He’s popular because he and the ruling party have a history of jailing and killing opponents.
Putin might be a thug but he's a thug with generally popular support among the Russian people. His popularity never went below 65% for his first two Presidencies, it soared again after he annexed Crimea. Independent surveys that I've seen say he has around 70% support from the Russian people for the invasion of Ukraine.
don_dunstan
Yeah, so when he jails and/or murders politician rivals, as a Russian, when asked if you support him or not, what would you say?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
So Putin is a popular fascist? Why is he trying to kill nazis successfully killing citizens in Ukraine then? If he’s so popular, why the need to shut down TV and radio stations? Why arrest protesters? He’s popular, a bit of a protest and a sign on a TV broadcast shouldn’t matter.

He’s popular because he and the ruling party have a history of jailing and killing opponents.
Putin might be a thug but he's a thug with generally popular support among the Russian people. His popularity never went below 65% for his first two Presidencies, it soared again after he annexed Crimea. Independent surveys that I've seen say he has around 70% support from the Russian people for the invasion of Ukraine.

Doesn't matter if its Pauline, Donald, Clive or Vlad, 'Confused of Adelaide' will always be there waiting to put in a good word for them Razz
Where did I say I supported Putin?
don_dunstan
I have never known a person who doesn’t support Putin to say ‘might be a thug’.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Yeah, so when he jails and/or murders politician rivals, as a Russian, when asked if you support him or not, what would you say?
Aaron
Did we do any better after getting rid of Saddam? I thought a wave of refugees ultimately hit Europe as a result of the colour revolution that swept through. That and the creation of ISIS.

I'm not saying Putin is any good at all, I'm just saying maybe the West needs to take a look at the current frontiers of push-back to understand where our challenges are - like Vietnam, Cambodia, Venezuela, dozens of other countries the West routinely interferes in.

It's really disappointing that none of you see the inevitable separation of the world into multi-polar powers, the red and the blue. We're never going to truly have world government and maybe that's a good thing.
  Sonofagunzel Minister for Railways

While Aaron and Don debate about who can make better predictions ...

Plausible:
Carnot, 15 January 2022


Within a month? Russia wouldn’t telegraph their intentions that far in advance.
Aaron, 15 January 2022


Don agreed with Aaron's post.

Russia invaded 23 February.
  Sonofagunzel Minister for Railways

Maybe it runs in Aaron's family:

Australia is closing its embassy’s in the Ukraine and evacuating all staff war imminent ?
freightgate, 13 February 2022

Relatives in Polish military still say no war imminent. If they thought so the rest of the family would been advised by them to leave Poland by now, this would at least be one way to get the father in law to come visit.

They have described Australia pulling staff and citizens back as ‘prudent, but over reaction’.

I am still travelling to Poland in May, and my wife will prevent me from travelling to Ukraine AGAIN! But I am going to try and get there.
Aaron, 13 February 2022

How's the trip to Ukraine, looking, Aaron?  I hear Mariupol is nice this time of year.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Russia didn’t invade within that month, and when the invasion came, it was with some surprise. Russia didn’t give notice and US weren’t exactly there saying ‘they’re coming tomorrow’. It was as I said it would be, not telegraphed with any real notice at all.

And, since you asked, given the chance I would still go to Ukraine if it’s not still being bombed by the Russian infestation - for starters I would need their government offices to be working so as to issue me a visa. I have family and friends still in Ukraine today.
  Sonofagunzel Minister for Railways

You’re saying that your prediction was correct because you were surprised by what happened?

That’s an impressive level of delusion.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
You’re saying that your prediction was correct because you were surprised by what happened?

That’s an impressive level of delusion.
Sonofagunzel
Are you saying the 15th of January is within a month of February 23? That’s an impressive misunderstanding of a calendar.

I am not correct because I was surprised, it shocked the world, Putin gave no direct warning, as I said, US/intelligence wasn’t sitting there knowing when it was going to happen, they were wrong to suggest that Putin was going to give them notice - he didn’t.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
German Railways contributing to the safety of the Ukraine people seeking support in western europe:

  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
German Railways contributing to the safety of the Ukraine people seeking support in western europe:

bevans
Interesting they don’t show a line from Berlin to Hanover. Wrocław to Frankfurt is a nice trip - cheap too maybe EUR6 return when I took it.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
India has quadrupled its imports of Russian oil since the start of the Ukraine conflict to 360,000 barrels a day - buying up cargoes that the West has embargoed. India has no intention of sanctioning Russia over the Ukraine war.
  Sonofagunzel Minister for Railways

@Aaron, how do you manage to cram so many blunders into such a small number of short posts?

BREAKING: White House says, based on intelligence assessments, that Russia's behavior could signal an invasion into Ukraine within a month
Within a month? Russia wouldn’t telegraph their intentions that far in advance.
Aaron, 15 January 2022
That means you thought Russia would invade well within the month, because you were saying Russia wouldn't telegraph their intentions a whole month in advance.  In fact it was slightly longer than a month before they invaded, as you have helpfully pointed out.

Relatives in Polish military still say no war imminent [and] they have described Australia pulling staff and citizens back as ‘prudent, but over reaction’. I am still travelling to Poland in May, and my wife will prevent me from travelling to Ukraine AGAIN! But I am going to try and get there.
Aaron, 13 February 2022
Seeing that your first prediction on 15 January failed, you backflipped.  On 13 February you said "no war imminent", purportedly on the basis of some sort of inside information from the Polish military.  So confident were you, you said you still wanted to go to Poland in May and still wanted to go to Ukraine.

10 days later, the war was on.

Russia didn’t invade within that month ... It was as I said it would be.
Aaron, 19 March 2022

Even if your English is so poor that you meant the opposite of what you originally said on 15 January (ie you had originally meant to say that Russia would not invade in a month), the invasion happened one month and eight days later.

So even if we accept your attempt to twist your own words to wriggle out of this, you were still wrong!

US weren’t exactly there saying ‘they’re coming tomorrow’.
Aaron, 19 March 2022

Yes, they were.

US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken said the following in a speech to the UN Security Council on Thursday, 17 February 2022:

“Our information indicates clearly that [Russian] forces, including ground troops, aircraft, ships, are preparing to launch an attack against Ukraine in the coming days."

On Sunday 20 February CBS News was the first to report that the Kremlin had given the green light to commanders among the more than 150,000 troops in potential attack positions.

On 21 February, Blinken told CBS:

“As President Biden said, everything we are seeing tells us that the decision we believe President Putin has made to invade is moving forward.”

At the same time, CBS reported that:

"US intelligence has detected evidence that Russian troops amassed close to the border with Ukraine have received actual orders to proceed with an invasion".

So you're also wrong about what the US was saying.  In doubling down on your your original blunders, you've blundered even more!

Putin gave no direct warning
Aaron

I'm not sure why this point matters, but this claim is wrong too.

On Monday 21 February, Russian President Vladimir Putin recognized two regions in Ukraine as independent and ordered Russian troops to conduct "peacekeeping" operations there, raising fears that Russia is paving the way for an attack.

Sounds like a direct warning to me.

And let's not forget all the sabre-rattling before that.

when the invasion came, it was with some surprise
Aaron
It looks like the only person who was surprised was you.

So as I said, you’re saying that your predictions were correct because you were surprised by what happened!

Next level delusion, for sure.

And, since you asked, given the chance I would still go to Ukraine if it’s not still being bombed by the Russian infestation - for starters I would need their government offices to be working so as to issue me a visa.
Aaron
What, even if it's occupied by Russia?

Does this mean that your wife now wants you to go?

I have family and friends still in Ukraine today.
Aaron
FWIW I hope they are all ok.

But getting back to the petty point scoring ...

I'm tempted to say that you were starting to sound like Myrtone.  However, that that would be an insult to Myrtone.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
"Trademark squatting" has begun in Russia - News.com.au;

A budding burger chain in Russia called Uncle Vanya is looking to grab business that has been left on the table by McDonald’s – revealing a logo that looks strikingly similar to the Golden Arches.

A March 12 trademark filing with the Russian government showed an image that closely resembles the McDonald’s logo turned on its side.

The sketchy filing shows a Cyrillic letter “B,” which references the “V” in “Uncle Vanya,” cast in yellow against a red background.

“Trademark squatting has begun in Russia,” tweeted Josh Gerben, a prominent intellectual property lawyer who was among those who flagged the filing.

The application appeared online after Russian officials indicated they would remove patent protections for companies linked to countries deemed hostile to Russia – a response to crippling international sanctions and a mass exodus of Western companies in response to the Ukraine invasion.

Earlier this month, Russian President Vladimir Putin suggested the Kremlin would move to seize assets from companies exiting the country by “ external management” and “[transferring] these enterprises to those who want to work,” according to Russian state media.

McDonald’s was singled out as a likely target. Vyacheslav Volodin, a top official in Russia’s State Duma, said last week that Russian restaurants should take control of McDonald’s locations – with a specific reference to Uncle Vanya.

“They announced they are closing. Well, okay, close. But tomorrow in those locations we should have not McDonald’s, but Uncle Vanya’s,” Volodin said, according to the The Washington Post.


  Sonofagunzel Minister for Railways

That's a step too far!  Now Biden will definitely invade.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

Biden will send in the maccas crew, management will organise rostering, 14(th battalion) year olds first in armed to the teeth with tomato sauce guns
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Biden will send in the maccas crew, management will organise rostering, 14(th battalion) year olds first in armed to the teeth with tomato sauce guns
doyle
Biden couldn't organise a trip to the toilet on his own - let alone arrange for capitalism to march back into Russia.
  ANR Chief Commissioner

I wonder if Trump will order two Big Macs, two Filet-O-Fish burgers and a large chocolate milkshake from Uncle V's (or is that B's?).
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
US President Joe Biden said on Monday it’s “clear” Russia is considering the use of chemical and biological weapons in Ukraine and warned of a “severe” Western response if it chose to do so, AFP reports.

“His back is against the wall,” said Biden of Russian President Vladimir Putin, noting that Russia has recently accused the United States of holding chemical and biological weapons in Europe.

“Simply not true. I guarantee you,” he told a gathering of US business leaders in Washington.
“They are also suggesting that Ukraine has biological and chemical weapons in Ukraine. That’s a clear sign he’s considering using both of those,” he said.

His warning echoed statements made by his administration earlier this month as well as other Western nations, after Russian officials accused Ukraine of seeking to hide an alleged US-backed chemical weapons program.

“Now that Russia has made these false claims… we should all be on the lookout for Russia to possibly use chemical or biological weapons in Ukraine, or to create a false flag operation using them,” tweeted White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki.
Biden on Monday also reiterated that such an action would prompt a “severe” but so far undefined response from Western allies.

Putin “knows there’ll be severe consequences because of the united NATO front,” he said, without specifying what actions the alliance would take.

At the same event, Biden noted that he had warned Putin of a US response if Russia launched cyber attacks against US critical infrastructure.

“We had a long conversation about if he uses it, what will be the consequence,” said Biden, referring to a summit with the Russian leader last year in Geneva.

Earlier in the day, Biden issued a statement warning the US business community of intelligence pointing to a growing Russian cyber threat and urging companies to “immediately” prepare defenses.

“If you have not already done so, I urge our private sector partners to harden your cyber defenses immediately,” he said, citing “evolving intelligence that the Russian government is exploring options for potential cyberattacks” including in response to Western sanctions over Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.

“It’s part of Russia’s playbook,” he said.

His statement added that the US government would “continue to use every tool to deter, disrupt, and if necessary, respond to cyberattacks against critical infrastructure.”

However, he underlined that most critical infrastructure in the country is owned and operated by private entities, which cannot be compelled to take specific cyber security measures.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
So, the war in Ukraine continues, despite more and more peace talks, I think Putin needs to seriously think about where he is headed in this, what is his end game in all of this, where will it end up?, Russia seems to be getting more and more desperate.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
So today, one of the Putin aligned Russian newspapers Komsomolskaya Pravda let slip in publication that the number of Russian MoD numbers for soldiers killed in Putin’s invasion was 9,861 - which is just extraordinarily (and tragically) high, wounded count was 16,153 soldiers. For a 3-4 week conflict in which the Ukrainians were going to welcome Russian troops with ‘flags and flowers’ that is just mind boggling, I saw reports that this was four times more than the US lost in 20 years of conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Минобороны РФ опровергает информацию украинского Генштаба о якобы маштабных потерях ВС РФ на Украине. По данным Минобороны РФ, в ходе спецоперации на Украине ВС РФ потеряли убитыми 9861 человека, ранения получили 16153 человека.

Читайте на http://WWW.KP.RU: https://www.kp.ru/online/news/4672522/
“Komsomolskaya Pravda”


Komsomolskaya Pravda - which sort of translates to something like ‘The Truth to the Young Members of the Soviet League’ - not sure if you can read it still, AND you probably need to be able to read Russian, or trust Google Translate, but I have copied part of the original text above nonetheless.

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