The 'renewable' energy thread -

 
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
It's not for me to forensically examine and research the subjects that don't suit your narrative.

If, and it's probably a very BIG if, the ABC or any other media outlet makes a huge error in its research and reporting of a particular topic and it's not rectified or a 'we were wrong' as The melbourne Age does on occasion, usually on Page 2 or 3 so it can be easily seen...but I digress.

The ABC, made a blue...according to you, but there is/was no retraction or otherwise, so IMO the error is with the representative from SA, or in this case the hapless taxpayer from SA.

You can always try to dignify your flat Earth beliefs by posting where YOU think the ABC made the error, but even then with your glass half empty view of the world...will anyone believe you Question

Mike.
The Vinelander
You love them more than most here on this board - why not write to them and ask them why that story still remains on their website without a retraction or a qualification like other news outlets in the United States did.

It wasn't just a 'blue' - it was an entire three-part Four Corners that was based on fake news. And not a word from my ABC about how they misled the public.

Sponsored advertisement

  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Again, your opinion only.

M.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Again, your opinion only.

M.
The Vinelander
No - not just my opinion. The Steele Dossier was completely wrong, fraudulent. There was nothing right about it - the author has been charged by the FBI for producing misleading evidence that was subsequently used in court.

Do you seriously not understand that? The ABC wasn't just a little bit wrong - it produced an entire three part series based on a complete lie - and then when it proven to be a lie it didn't even try and correct it.

Disgraceful.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Renewable energy here in South Australia is only producing 300 MW while demand is 1,800 MW. Without reliable brown coal from VIC and gas from local producers we'd be in blackout.

Pretty soon reliable brown coal from VIC will be gone. Then what?
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Renewable energy here in South Australia is only producing 300 MW while demand is 1,800 MW. Without reliable brown coal from VIC and gas from local producers we'd be in blackout.

Pretty soon reliable brown coal from VIC will be gone. Then what?
don_dunstan
With any luck, you won't be able to use your computer or charge your device!
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Renewable energy here in South Australia is only producing 300 MW while demand is 1,800 MW. Without reliable brown coal from VIC and gas from local producers we'd be in blackout.

Pretty soon reliable brown coal from VIC will be gone. Then what?
With any luck, you won't be able to use your computer or charge your device!
DirtyBallast
Ooooh, ouch. Such a searing zinger.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Renewable energy here in South Australia is only producing 300 MW while demand is 1,800 MW. Without reliable brown coal from VIC and gas from local producers we'd be in blackout.

Pretty soon reliable brown coal from VIC will be gone. Then what?
don_dunstan
How much was the Victorian import?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
'Relatively' sunny day in Adelaide, still producing the bulk of our energy from gas and shamefully, even 'liquid' sources meaning we are needing to run the diesel gensets, perhaps more embarrassingly, despite most of our energy being non renewable, and importing from the east our battery is also listed as a load - again proving it's use for storing 'green' energy is not really there.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
'Relatively' sunny day in Adelaide, still producing the bulk of our energy from gas and shamefully, even 'liquid' sources meaning we are needing to run the diesel gensets, perhaps more embarrassingly, despite most of our energy being non renewable, and importing from the east our battery is also listed as a load - again proving it's use for storing 'green' energy is not really there.
Aaron
When you posted this, SA was exporting power (since 11am), with 75% generated from solar and 12% from wind?

Whats your point?
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Renewable energy here in South Australia is only producing 300 MW while demand is 1,800 MW. Without reliable brown coal from VIC and gas from local producers we'd be in blackout.

Pretty soon reliable brown coal from VIC will be gone. Then what?
How much was the Victorian import?
Aaron
I think at that stage last night there was 350+ MW coming from interstate.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
'Relatively' sunny day in Adelaide, still producing the bulk of our energy from gas and shamefully, even 'liquid' sources meaning we are needing to run the diesel gensets, perhaps more embarrassingly, despite most of our energy being non renewable, and importing from the east our battery is also listed as a load - again proving it's use for storing 'green' energy is not really there.
When you posted this, SA was exporting power (since 11am), with 75% generated from solar and 12% from wind?

Whats your point?
RTT_Rules
We were importing - still are. About 2490MW demand vs 2241MW supply.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
'Relatively' sunny day in Adelaide, still producing the bulk of our energy from gas and shamefully, even 'liquid' sources meaning we are needing to run the diesel gensets, perhaps more embarrassingly, despite most of our energy being non renewable, and importing from the east our battery is also listed as a load - again proving it's use for storing 'green' energy is not really there.
When you posted this, SA was exporting power (since 11am), with 75% generated from solar and 12% from wind?

Whats your point?
We were importing - still are. About 2490MW demand vs 2241MW supply.
Aaron
SA were exporting from 11 am to around 4pm.

If you are exporting from diesel geneators, whats the issue? Just means there is a shortfall somewhere and the higher peak loading capacity is being employed from around the country to support. Go back 20+ years when there interstate connections were minor, states had to mostly look after themselves, which didn't always work out.

The current chemical batteries in place are not designed or intended to sustain the grid for long periods, they buffer the grid from short term spikes / dips and allow a reduction in spinning reserve which comes at a cost to have online for a "just in case". Future expansion of the chemical batteries will start to reduce the impact of the evening peaks and SNOWY 2.0 will provide buffer against day/night and day to day variation in supply.

Again, what is your point?
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Much worse tonight, renewables generating 99 MW while the overall demand is 1,715 MW. Gas, battery and dirty brown coal from VIC picking up the rest - a whopping 741 MW currently imported from the Latrobe Valley.

Half of South Australia's electricity needs imported from the Latrobe Valley - a distance of over 1,000km - and from coal generators scheduled to close over the next 5-10 years.

What then?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
'Relatively' sunny day in Adelaide, still producing the bulk of our energy from gas and shamefully, even 'liquid' sources meaning we are needing to run the diesel gensets, perhaps more embarrassingly, despite most of our energy being non renewable, and importing from the east our battery is also listed as a load - again proving it's use for storing 'green' energy is not really there.
When you posted this, SA was exporting power (since 11am), with 75% generated from solar and 12% from wind?

Whats your point?
We were importing - still are. About 2490MW demand vs 2241MW supply.
SA were exporting from 11 am to around 4pm.

If you are exporting from diesel geneators, whats the issue? Just means there is a shortfall somewhere and the higher peak loading capacity is being employed from around the country to support. Go back 20+ years when there interstate connections were minor, states had to mostly look after themselves, which didn't always work out.

The current chemical batteries in place are not designed or intended to sustain the grid for long periods, they buffer the grid from short term spikes / dips and allow a reduction in spinning reserve which comes at a cost to have online for a "just in case". Future expansion of the chemical batteries will start to reduce the impact of the evening peaks and SNOWY 2.0 will provide buffer against day/night and day to day variation in supply.

Again, what is your point?
RTT_Rules
From 11? Okay, that explains why I saw a deficit. What's my point? Again, clearly, we export for 5 hours, the day is 24 hours, even when exporting we were still using gas and diesel - we are going to need a much, much, much bigger battery to be 100% renewable - if we even can be.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
From 11? Okay, that explains why I saw a deficit. What's my point? Again, clearly, we export for 5 hours, the day is 24 hours, even when exporting we were still using gas and diesel - we are going to need a much, much, much bigger battery to be 100% renewable - if we even can be.
Aaron
Solar growth in SA is such that within a year, SA will be exporting most days during the day. As other states ramp up their solar this excess will mostly be sent into storage at some point or simply taken off line. As more solar enters the market the window of 100% solar capability will increase to eariler and later in the day.

Then there is wind, which is less predictable but supplying over 40% of the total demand is not insignificant.

SA has been heavily reliant on gas since Adam was a boy so gas coming on line to fill the gap is hardly anything new and what its designed for.

Your much, much, much, much bigger battery is currently under construction.

Will SA ever get 100% RE, I doubt it. Is there a need? No. SA is likely to achieve 75% RE this year. Post Snowy 2.0 + additional chemical battery's and other solar and wind growth by 2025, this number will jump to + 90 - 95%. For my money that pretty much job done.

Multi source fuel turbines + diesel generators will more than likely be the main source of gap filling for years to come and theree is nothing wrong with that.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Much worse tonight, renewables generating 99 MW while the overall demand is 1,715 MW. Gas, battery and dirty brown coal from VIC picking up the rest - a whopping 741 MW currently imported from the Latrobe Valley.

Half of South Australia's electricity needs imported from the Latrobe Valley - a distance of over 1,000km - and from coal generators scheduled to close over the next 5-10 years.

What then?
don_dunstan
A few corrections

- 30 % of power you are importing tonight is actually RE (assuming no dilution from Tas, which there is)

- Less than 11% of SA's power requirement last year was imported. However SA exported 6%, so your "half", is actually 5% and last year was unusal in that previous years prior SA was a net exporter.

- 33% of Victoria's total electricty generation is RE

- The project Snowy and that Snowy 2.0 project you heavily critise will replace the Latrobe valley.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Interesting to note that natural gas shortages might impact Victoria as early as winter 2023.
https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/exxonmobil-fires-warning-over-victoria-s-plan-to-turn-off-gas-20220321-p5a6k0.html

I have gas boosted solar hot water system that's as gutless as anything.  Seriously considering converting to electric boosted solar... $$$
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Renewable energy here in South Australia is only producing 300 MW while demand is 1,800 MW. Without reliable brown coal from VIC and gas from local producers we'd be in blackout.

Pretty soon reliable brown coal from VIC will be gone. Then what?
don_dunstan

The MEGA windfarm off Cape Otway and others will have been implemented. Wind Question...never a problem on Bass Strait.

M.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
A few corrections

- 30 % of power you are importing tonight is actually RE (assuming no dilution from Tas, which there is)
RTT_Rules
You're talking about routing power nearly 2,000km from Tasmania and Snowy Hydro to South Australia for the sake of an imaginary carbon monster - not only is that really inefficient losing several percent on the way but its vulnerable to storm events and solar flare. Even things like hot sunshine can expand the lines and cause them to lose more power.

It's really stupid from a technical standpoint to be so reliant on a grid where power traverses such huge distances.
- Less than 11% of SA's power requirement last year was imported. However SA exported 6%, so your "half", is actually 5% and last year was unusal in that previous years prior SA was a net exporter. - 33% of Victoria's total electricty generation is RE
RTT_Rules
The usual strategy the renewable energy advocates use to muddy the water is to make grand claims about the rated capacity of renewable energy projects COMBINED and then act as if they do that output all the time. As they've discovered in the UK the total output of a wind farm is usually just a fraction of its rated capacity - in fact some have been consistently producing less than ten percent of what they're rated at - in which case they're so unreliable and have such meaningless output that they might as well have not been built.

We are talking about what happens at night and in times of 'wind and solar drought', which is when the national grid will be under the most stress particularly early evening. We're 'lucky' today here in South Australia, a cool change has broken the wind drought experienced over the last three days and wind has decided to show up for work today - however it's overcast so the solar farms are having their turn to call in sick.

You also continually make misleading claims about things like the SA Tesla battery - it cannot (and is not designed to) replace grid power because it can only run at maximum output for less than an hour.

Renewables almost never - NEVER - get to generate what their plated capacity is so please don't quote those figures, they're meaningless.
- The project Snowy and that Snowy 2.0 project you heavily critise will replace the Latrobe valley.
RTT_Rules
Snowy 2.0 cannot possibly replace reliable coal-fired power plants like Loy Yang - for reasons that I've already cited on this board.

The Conversation.

Again, you're confusing rated output with how much they're actually going to produce. Snowy 2.0 needs energy put into it in order to have an output, it's not a power station. What happens during a wind drought when the 'battery' can't be charged?

You people live in a fantasy world that just isn't real.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Renewable energy here in South Australia is only producing 300 MW while demand is 1,800 MW. Without reliable brown coal from VIC and gas from local producers we'd be in blackout.

Pretty soon reliable brown coal from VIC will be gone. Then what?

The MEGA windfarm off Cape Otway and others will have been implemented. Wind Question...never a problem on Bass Strait.

M.
The Vinelander
Is it going to produce its plated capacity 24/7?
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Renewable energy here in South Australia is only producing 300 MW while demand is 1,800 MW. Without reliable brown coal from VIC and gas from local producers we'd be in blackout.

Pretty soon reliable brown coal from VIC will be gone. Then what?

The MEGA windfarm off Cape Otway and others will have been implemented. Wind Question...never a problem on Bass Strait.

M.
Is it going to produce its plated capacity 24/7?
don_dunstan
Why should it? Hazelwood never did!
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Renewable energy here in South Australia is only producing 300 MW while demand is 1,800 MW. Without reliable brown coal from VIC and gas from local producers we'd be in blackout.

Pretty soon reliable brown coal from VIC will be gone. Then what?

The MEGA windfarm off Cape Otway and others will have been implemented. Wind Question...never a problem on Bass Strait.

M.
Is it going to produce its plated capacity 24/7?
Why should it? Hazelwood never did!
DirtyBallast
So Hazelwood relied on the weather?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
You people live in a fantasy world that just isn't real.
"don_dunstan''
Tautology at its best.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Renewable energy here in South Australia is only producing 300 MW while demand is 1,800 MW. Without reliable brown coal from VIC and gas from local producers we'd be in blackout.

Pretty soon reliable brown coal from VIC will be gone. Then what?

The MEGA windfarm off Cape Otway and others will have been implemented. Wind Question...never a problem on Bass Strait.

M.
Is it going to produce its plated capacity 24/7?
Why should it? Hazelwood never did!
So Hazelwood relied on the weather?
don_dunstan
?
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
You people live in a fantasy world that just isn't real.
Tautology at its best.
Valvegear
Steady on. Don's fantasy world is VERY real! Laughing

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: bevans, qredge, RTT_Rules

Display from: