This is doing my head in thinking about it.

Some talk over the week about transgender men meaning a Man wants to convert to a female and that man well person wants to complete in female sport. I am dead against this and if the transgender want to play sport then they should create a transgender league. It has gone beyond a joke.

This will be an interesting discussion.
My opinion is the structure of a man’s body is not changed by changing one’s sex.
Sure, the trans person will take on the physical attributes of a female, but the physicality remains.

Mike.

Some talk over the week about transgender men meaning a Man wants to convert to a female and that man well person wants to complete in female sport. I am dead against this and if the transgender want to play sport then they should create a transgender league. It has gone beyond a joke.

Having three leagues for
* Male
* Female and
* Transgender - are there enough for a separate league?
is a bit silly.

What would be fairer is to have two leagues
* Female only
* Male and Transgender, together since transgender retain the physical strength of a male.

A hypothetical, it’s 2010 and Federa Nadal and Djokovic all now identify as transgender and are playing the woman’s circuit. Fair?

I wish I could figure out what is a fair system, but this whole thing has me stumped.

Nothing to be stumped about. It’s very simple. So simple, even Vinelander gets it.

Don’t let the radicals gaslight you.

A hypothetical, it’s 2010 and Federa Nadal and Djokovic all now identify as transgender and are playing the woman’s circuit. Fair?

Ok I will buy in.  No.

This will be an interesting discussion.
My opinion is the structure of a man’s body is not changed by changing one’s sex.
Sure, the trans person will take on the physical attributes of a female, but the physicality remains.

Mike.

Apparently when taking hormone drugs there are some changes in the muslces, ie transgender woman is less muscly than a male, but they are still not female especially of they transitioned after pubity.

I don't support it either. There is simply not enough evidence to support that a Transwoman is equal physically to a natural woman and likely because they are not. Males are on average taller, longer limbs and with greater lung capacity, its why most physical sports men and women do not compete directly. Hell natural women are known for taking male hormones such as testerone to increase their strength, sex drive etc.

For those who think otherwise I'm 6'4" / 192 cm adn all legs, while I'm happy with the skin I'm in, if I was to go down this path would it be fair I turn up to the starting line against natural women? Clearly no.

The elephant in the room is those who started hormone treatment prior to pubity?

Agree they should have their own category's although there is likely not enough competitors to make it work, but their issue shouldn't affect that of natural woman.

Regards

EDIT: Havn't some transgender won Miss universe or something in the past before they blocked it? There was one more famous Trans who was a Bond girl in the 80's?

One bogan Liberal MP opens his hate filled mouth and you numptys lose your smeg...... as usual.

It's hardly an issue in the greater scheme of things.

One bogan Liberal MP opens his hate filled mouth and you numptys lose your smeg...... as usual.

It's hardly an issue in the greater scheme of things.

You mean this bloke? Sebastian Coe I think his name is

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-22/world-athletics-president-womens-sport-trans-integrity-threat/100929656

Some talk over the week about transgender men meaning a Man wants to convert to a female and that man well person wants to complete in female sport. I am dead against this and if the transgender want to play sport then they should create a transgender league. It has gone beyond a joke.Having three leagues for
* Male
* Female and
* Transgender - are there enough for a separate league?
is a bit silly.

What would be fairer is to have two leagues
* Female only
* Male and Transgender, together since transgender retain the physical strength of a male.

What about FTM trans? You are thinking of only MTF trans. I assume that FTM trans retains most of the physical strength of a female

A hypothetical, it’s 2010 and Federa Nadal and Djokovic all now identify as transgender and are playing the woman’s circuit. Fair?

Depends. Is Djokovic vaccinated or not?

Some talk over the week about transgender men meaning a Man wants to convert to a female and that man well person wants to complete in female sport. I am dead against this and if the transgender want to play sport then they should create a transgender league. It has gone beyond a joke.Having three leagues for
* Male
* Female and
* Transgender - are there enough for a separate league?
is a bit silly.

What would be fairer is to have two leagues
* Female only
* Male and Transgender, together since transgender retain the physical strength of a male.What about FTM trans? You are thinking of only MTF trans. I assume that FTM trans retains most of the physical strength of a female

Presumably, but if either of the Williams sisters at the height of their game played as trans they'd probably still beat half the ATP Tour men, they could really swing a racquet despite being ladies.

If the Williams sisters had precisely the same strength and playing ability as they do (or had), but were instead men, then we’d never have heard of them.

One bogan Liberal MP opens his hate filled mouth and you numptys lose your smeg...... as usual.

It's hardly an issue in the greater scheme of things.

You are the only one here who seems to be losing their smeg. No one else in this thread is calling people names and accusing anyone of hate.

If you think truth and fairness is hardly an issue, then that’s your opinion.

The Prime Minister’s hand-picked candidate running in the seat of Warringah is [color=#000000]becoming a burden for the Liberal party early on in the election campaign for her claims about transgender women.[/color]
Katherine Deves is campaigning to have transgender women banned from sport but has had to apologise twice in the past week as further statements and social media posts are unearthed with claims including, “Half of all males with trans identities are sex offenders” and likening them to Nazis.
Scott Morrison has backed away after starting the week in full support of Deves.
It is a highly emotive issue. Yet concern over trans athletes borders on a moral panic considering the population base we are talking about — in the 2016 Australian census, 100 people described themselves as trans female. That is 0.0004 per cent of the population.
Deves is running against the sitting member for Warringah, Independent Zali Steggall, a former elite athlete and Olympic medallist.
“[This creates] a diversion to hide the lack of policy around integrity and around pay equity for women by creating this, I think, quite side-lined fight that is divisive,” Stegall told The Ticket.
“It’s incredibly damaging for many people in the community but it’s also a bit of a dog whistle to the more conservative side of politics at a time where we have such bigger issues, so I support inclusion.
“International sporting bodies, national federations, they  have rules in place to deal with this.
“It is just not the problem that they are making it out to be.”
Steggall has also called for Deves to be disendorsed by the Liberal Party.

It's not a non-issue.  Girls and women are being injured:


Has anyone asked for Zali Steggall's opinion? Or are the media just soft on her, and angry against Katherine Deves who has a spine and stands up for women?

What would be fairer is to have two leagues
* Female only
* Male and Transgender, together since transgender retain the physical strength of a male.

A newspaper/magazine whose name I forget made this point.

School football teams are often graded by weight or age so that heavier players do not have an advantage over lighter players.

What would be fairer is to have two leagues
* Female only
* Male and Transgender, together since transgender retain the physical strength of a male.A newspaper/magazine whose name I forget made this point.

School football teams are often graded by weight or age so that heavier players do not have an advantage over lighter players.

Boxers also come in weight divisions such as "Light Middle Heavy Weight".

The only sport that I can think of where gender is unimportant involve horses and their riders, such as horseracing, dressage, etc.

The only thing that matters is how other female athletes feel about it. Can't remember the exact story but in the USA Lia Thomas beat everyone else in a 1500m race by almost 40 seconds. How would it feel knowing you can't ever reel in that gap?

How are those transgender male to female with their junk still attached going to fit into Lycra for track events ?

When I was playing hockey, only women could play in the women's pennant, but men's was open to women and juniors if they were up to it. In our lowly grade, we had an Australian women's rep who in our level was good but not outstanding. Seemed sensible then and still does.

The only thing that matters is how other female athletes feel about it. Can't remember the exact story but in the USA Lia Thomas beat everyone else in a 1500m race by almost 40 seconds. How would it feel knowing you can't ever reel in that gap?

Of interest talking to a career coach we have employed at work who lives in UK (female), we got onto this topic and she indicated there is the strong objection from women for biological men who have not had a the full nip and tuck from even using female bathrooms. No issue with the whole who you identify at with work, but for numerous reasons in London there is a growing objection for non physically looking women from using female bathrooms as a matter of security as whats to stop say potential rapists from getting access under the guise of they claim to indentify so its ok until something happens.

Hence the movement we see in public toilets towards single uni-sex cubicals. Easier for secuirty, flexible for different ratios of gender and dealing with the whole non-binary gender issue.

'... Of interest talking to a career coach we have employed at work who lives in UK (female),  .. '

And I don't even know what a career coach is or does!

Are you allowed to say these days that 'they' are female. If so, are you sure that that is really the case?

In my day, I had a boss/HoB* who was God. When necessary he had big boots and a loud voice. I respected him immensely. (He/him wasn't they in those days). * Head of Branch.

I recall one case years ago when someone had done the wrong thing and his supervisor reported that he (they!) had 'abused $h!t out of the offender'. The supervisor was admonished (perhaps by a career coach ) for his (their!) actions. He (they!) then reported that he (they) had 'counselled $h!t out of the offender'.

'Smarten your ideas or ............. '.

It's not only people who have gone transgender. The English language of bureaucrats has gone crazy too.

'... Of interest talking to a career coach we have employed at work who lives in UK (female),  .. '

And I don't even know what a career coach is or does!

Are you allowed to say these days that 'they' are female. If so, are you sure that that is really the case?

In my day, I had a boss/HoB* who was God. When necessary he had big boots and a loud voice. I respected him immensely. (He/him wasn't they in those days). * Head of Branch.

I recall one case years ago when someone had done the wrong thing and his supervisor reported that he (they!) had 'abused $h!t out of the offender'. The supervisor was admonished (perhaps by a career coach ) for his (their!) actions. He (they!) then reported that he (they) had 'counselled $h!t out of the offender'.

'Smarten your ideas or ............. '.

It's not only people who have gone transgender. The English language of bureaucrats has gone crazy too.

Career Development coach, basically the company pays another company alot of money to do all these phyc tests. They then intervierwing, find out what you want to do, whats holding you back. Draw up a plan, your boss signs off and supports your projects to make sure you do what you commited too.

The discussion started as she used the pronoun in her title, she/ her etc. As this isn't a thing in the middle east it was a bit new to me despite me seeing it in Linkedin. She explained why she did it, her boss is gay, but not because of him and no she's not making fun of it.