Renewable energy thread 2022

 
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Is there anything you can't do?
As I can do most things, there is obviously not much I cannot do.
RTT_Rules
Except be right.

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Is there anything you can't do?
As I can do most things, there is obviously not much I cannot do.
Except be right.
don_dunstan
I don't think you are the right person to making such a call considering how often you are wrong.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
What you're saying is that we should stop building coal fired power plants because technology that hasn't been invented yet will come along and save us from the inevitable blackouts that will occur when coal is gone from the system.

It's like saying we should stop spending money on roads right now because by 2030 we'll all have flying cars.

That's the extent of the insanity you're advocating.
Hello, we stopped building coal power stations 11 years ago, the use 16 years ago.

Pretty much the bulk of the developed world has stopped.
Which is why we have the world's highest electricity prices and in the meantime China still has power at 8 cents a kilowatt hour.

Industry is being killed by this green energy rubbish.
don_dunstan
Wrong again, (oh god the list just gets bigger).

Australia is not the highest, or near it, actually 24th, not paid for the almost highest average income or are you ready for a 75 - 85% wage cut so you can have the same power prices as China. Show our hyprocritical your comments are, some of which you mentioned today.

- You complain about off shoring to low labour cost countries to China, hello Don, the energy sector employs alot of people
- You use China as a bench mark for power prices, yet China has roughly the same amount of RE in the mix and expanding rapidly
- Chinese power sector runs at a loss because the average load on the coal plants is less than 50%.
- China subsidises domestic demand which is a small fraction of industrial and large commerical uses because when you live in a 1 bed apartment, you don't user alot fo power.

"Contrary to popular belief, electricity in China is already expensive. On average, retail electricity prices in China are only about 15 percent lower than in the United States, and for many Chinese provinces electricity prices are no different from the average U.S. Midwestern state."

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/four-things-you-should-know-about-chinas-electricity-system
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
You don't even know what the issue with peak is, I mean seriously do you have a clue what the real issue is or are you just going to keep making it up. Some of us talk MW, you parrot extremist idiots.
You don't even live here and yet you relentlessly bash us over the head with your brain-dead delusions about green energy and what we should be doing with our country.
don_dunstan
Blah blah blaa, this old chestnut. When Don has nothing else to stand on.

You don't live here,

Well you don't live in the east coast, but you are very quick to tell them what to do power wise

You don't live in Ukraine, but you are very quick with your justification for Putin

You don't live in UK or Germany, but you are very quick to tell us all how bad it is there

You don't live in China, but you are very quick to tell us how cheap it is there.

You don't live in the USA, but you are very quick to tell us how good Old Don is.

As you are clearly clueless in the energy world, but clearly vocal about it, then perhaps yes this brain bashing needs to continue.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Is there anything you can't do?
As I can do most things, there is obviously not much I cannot do.
Except be right.
I don't think you are the right person to making such a call considering how often you are wrong.
RTT_Rules
LOL this from someone who thinks flying cars will arrive on schedule so we can rip up all the roads.

But those things will surely - SURELY - be invented and commercial by 2030 - so we have to start ripping up the roads immediately.

Right?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Is there anything you can't do?
As I can do most things, there is obviously not much I cannot do.
Except be right.
I don't think you are the right person to making such a call considering how often you are wrong.
LOL this from someone who thinks flying cars will arrive on schedule so we can rip up all the roads.

But those things will surely - SURELY - be invented and commercial by 2030 - so we have to start ripping up the roads immediately.

Right?
don_dunstan
I told you eariler today, The Jetsons was a cartoon.

Why would you rip up roads until its not needed? Where on earth did I say that for the power sector?

You have a coal power station, which by its age, efficency, resource and cost is good until at least 2035 by current projections. So the time to decide on its replacement is within its 5 years notice period which is specfically based on the minimum time frame it takes to select, approve, construct and commission a new coal power station.

As I said before, if there is a cheaper, cleaner alternativce, you go for that, if not you build coal. However as you are SOOOO focused on coal replacement over RE, no one would build coal anyway, gas is so much cheaper and by then it will be cheaper again as the current best in class, H-block will be two generations old by then and the last generation to H-block achieved a ~20% reduction in gas requirement over its predecessor. Don't believe me, how much MW in gas turbines was built between 1995 and 2015? vs coal in Australia
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Blah blah blaa, this old chestnut. When Don has nothing else to stand on.

You don't live here,

Well you don't live in the east coast, but you are very quick to tell them what to do power wise
RTT_Rules
Because once the Latrobe Valley has closed we're going to be vulnerable here in SA to blackouts. So it affects me directly.
You don't live in Ukraine, but you are very quick with your justification for Putin
RTT_Rules
So I'm not entitled to an opinion on that situation because it's the wrong one?

Seems to be your bottom line on that one. "How dare you think differently to me!"
You don't live in UK or Germany, but you are very quick to tell us all how bad it is there
RTT_Rules
The huge increases in electricity and gas in the UK on April 1st were pretty hard to ignore - 54% for most consumers. Mind-blowing, really. Wouldn't want to be on the poverty line in that place.
You don't live in China, but you are very quick to tell us how cheap it is there.
RTT_Rules
Because as I've explained before, I work in an industry that goes head-to-head with China and Thailand and electricity is a large input cost. So I know what they pay and I know what we pay - it's a significant obstacle to profitability and keeping people employed in Australia to have to compete with a country that pays it workers a fraction of what we have to pay them AND they have 8 cent kWh electricity, less than a quarter of what we pay.

So yeah, I know exactly what Australian manufacturing is up against - Greenies who think we have an unlimited capacity to pay for electricity.
You don't live in the USA, but you are very quick to tell us how good Old Don is. As you are clearly clueless in the energy world, but clearly vocal about it, then perhaps yes this brain bashing needs to continue.
RTT_Rules
I don't think I've spoken about Donald Trump for ages, unlike the people who were single-handedly keeping that thread going over a year after he left office.

By all means keep telling me that I know nothing - at the end of the day you're just some random on Railpage who has drunk the Kool Aid on facile, unfit-for-purpose 'renewable' energy.

So looks like we're even.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Blah blah blaa, this old chestnut. When Don has nothing else to stand on.

You don't live here,

Well you don't live in the east coast, but you are very quick to tell them what to do power wise
Because once the Latrobe Valley has closed we're going to be vulnerable here in SA to blackouts. So it affects me directly.
You don't live in Ukraine, but you are very quick with your justification for Putin
So I'm not entitled to an opinion on that situation because it's the wrong one?

Seems to be your bottom line on that one. "How dare you think differently to me!"
You don't live in UK or Germany, but you are very quick to tell us all how bad it is there
The huge increases in electricity and gas in the UK on April 1st were pretty hard to ignore - 54% for most consumers. Mind-blowing, really. Wouldn't want to be on the poverty line in that place.
You don't live in China, but you are very quick to tell us how cheap it is there.
Because as I've explained before, I work in an industry that goes head-to-head with China and Thailand and electricity is a large input cost. So I know what they pay and I know what we pay - it's a significant obstacle to profitability and keeping people employed in Australia to have to compete with a country that pays it workers a fraction of what we have to pay them AND they have 8 cent kWh electricity, less than a quarter of what we pay.

So yeah, I know exactly what Australian manufacturing is up against - Greenies who think we have an unlimited capacity to pay for electricity.
You don't live in the USA, but you are very quick to tell us how good Old Don is. As you are clearly clueless in the energy world, but clearly vocal about it, then perhaps yes this brain bashing needs to continue.
I don't think I've spoken about Donald Trump for ages, unlike the people who were single-handedly keeping that thread going over a year after he left office.

By all means keep telling me that I know nothing - at the end of the day you're just some random on Railpage who has drunk the Kool Aid on facile, unfit-for-purpose 'renewable' energy.

So looks like we're even.
don_dunstan
Because you think about Latrobe valley doesn't make it right. You said the same before Northern.

You are not entited to an opinion out of your own state when you critise others not in that state for an opnion of your state.  So correct, you are not.

Its not my fault you are wrong on this Don. thinking differently doesn't make you are right especially when you have no idea on the technology.

UK buys some of its gas from Russia, West sanctions Russia, gas prices goes up. Surprise.

No you don't work in a high energy business, when you work in aluminium, then get back to me. The Australian aluminium sector uses 3.5 GW or around 15% of the total grid. My employer owns two power stations pumping out 5GW of power, just to make aluminium.

Its got nothing to do with the power source and the fact you quote 8c means you have ZERO clue to what is going on because no business in China pasy 8c, thats the domestic price, which I TOLD YOU AND SHARED A LINK 2h ago. Anyone who actually works in an energy intensive business against China would know that.

China isn't getting our industry because of power price, labour cost is a much larger piece of the pie.

You harped on about DT for long enough after he left office.

You know nothing because you never talk or discuss anything technical, just dictate ideology. As soon as I try, you just ignore it, ie cannot have facts in this thread, just like you did to the reference on Chinese power prices. Just like a paid for comment Radio Jock.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Because you think about Latrobe valley doesn't make it right. You said the same before Northern.
RTT_Rules
No, I never said that. But as it happens the HV line to Victoria went out and we had a 12-hour blackout just like I've been predicting.

So it's already happened.
You are not entited to an opinion out of your own state when you critise others not in that state for an opnion of your state. So correct, you are not.
RTT_Rules
That doesn't even make any sense.

It's got to a point now where I think Valvegear arrived at with you about six months ago where he just gave up because you can't actually form arguments, you don't read responses and I'm really just wasting my time here.

I think in the future I'm not going to respond to your rants unless I feel like it.
Its got nothing to do with the power source and the fact you quote 8c means you have ZERO clue to what is going on because no business in China pasy 8c, thats the domestic price, which I TOLD YOU AND SHARED A LINK 2h ago. Anyone who actually works in an energy intensive business against China would know that. China isn't getting our industry because of power price, labour cost is a much larger piece of the pie.
RTT_Rules
You're talking about things that you don't actually know about here matey.

It's true that the price of electricity has been going up in China but it's still around a quarter of what we're paying in Australia.
You harped on about DT for long enough after he left office.
RTT_Rules
No, I stopped talking about him immediately; you're getting me confused with someone else.

Bye-bye, RTT_Rules.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Readings and observations show that the earth's climate has hardly changed at all in the last 10-20 years - and in fact it's very stable: Climate Depot

A systematic review of climate trends and observational data by an eminent climate scientist has found no evidence to support the claim of a climate crisis.
In his annual State of the Climate report, Ole Humlum, emeritus professor at the University of Oslo, examined detailed patterns in temperature changes in the atmosphere and oceans together with trends in climate impacts. Many of these show no significant trends and suggest that poorly understood natural cycles are involved.

And while the report finds gentle warming, there is no evidence of dramatic changes, with snow cover stable, sea ice levels recovering, and no change in storm activity.

Professor Humlum said: “A year ago, I warned that there was great risk in using computer modelling and immature science to make extraordinary claims. The empirical observations I have reviewed show very gentle warming and no evidence of a climate crisis.”

GWPF director, Dr Benny Peiser said:

“It’s extraordinary that anyone should think there is a climate crisis. Year after year our annual assessment of climate trends document just how little has been changing in the last 30 years. The habitual climate alarmism is mainly driven by scientists’ computer modelling rather than observational evidence.”

Also, there's very little sign of the catastrophic ocean level rises that we were promised 20 years ago:

Global sea level is monitored by satellite altimetry and by direct measurement using tide gauges. While the satellite record suggests a global sea-level rise of about 3.3mm per year or more, data from tide gauges all over the world suggest a stable rise of 1–2mm per year. The tide gauges indicate no recent acceleration (or deceleration) of sea-level rise. The marked difference (a ratio of about 1:2) between the two datasets has no universally accepted explanation, but it is known that the satellite observations face complications in areas near the coast (see, for example, Vignudelli et al. 2019). Whatever the truth, the tide-gauge data are more relevant for local coastal planning purposes.

Also there's been almost no change in sea-ice or snow cover. So no sign of the earth ending any time soon from the Carbon Fairy.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Because you think about Latrobe valley doesn't make it right. You said the same before Northern.
No, I never said that. But as it happens the HV line to Victoria went out and we had a 12-hour blackout just like I've been predicting.

So it's already happened.
You are not entited to an opinion out of your own state when you critise others not in that state for an opnion of your state. So correct, you are not.
That doesn't even make any sense.

It's got to a point now where I think Valvegear arrived at with you about six months ago where he just gave up because you can't actually form arguments, you don't read responses and I'm really just wasting my time here.

I think in the future I'm not going to respond to your rants unless I feel like it.
Its got nothing to do with the power source and the fact you quote 8c means you have ZERO clue to what is going on because no business in China pasy 8c, thats the domestic price, which I TOLD YOU AND SHARED A LINK 2h ago. Anyone who actually works in an energy intensive business against China would know that. China isn't getting our industry because of power price, labour cost is a much larger piece of the pie.
You're talking about things that you don't actually know about here matey.

It's true that the price of electricity has been going up in China but it's still around a quarter of what we're paying in Australia.
You harped on about DT for long enough after he left office.
No, I stopped talking about him immediately; you're getting me confused with someone else.

Bye-bye, RTT_Rules.
Oh god, Don is back again

1) So in the history of SA, you have never had a blackout before?

I've certainly lived through enough blackouts before RE to know any statement that sas RE will drive more blackouts is compete and utter crap.

The cable isn't the only source of electron's to Sth Aust or even generated in Sth Aust, an improved inter-connected grid wil help provide a robust supply as it removes single points of failure. Once SA gets the NSW link, the supply will been even more reliable all round.

2) No, you are not entitled to an opnion of other states or countries when you state others are not entitled to an opinion of yours.

Oh, bringing up a discussion with someone else 6mth ago is your come back. That poster made an abusive statement, I called him on it and its now history. I've done the same to you more recently and will happily do it again if you go down the same path.

You are wasting your time because you have no interest any any other data other than your own opinion.

3) Re Chine, I shared the link with the correct info. Unless you are competing against home made socks or something, then you are wrong.

4) Average income in China vs average income in Australia
Now compare that against power prices for both.

When you have done that, come back to me, or whats next from you. Look Chinese food in China is cheaper than Australia, it must be RE.

One more time, the RE mix in the Chinese and Australian grids is roughly the same, your logic (loosely defined) is completely and utherly false.

5) You kept on about DT long after he left office.


Are you really done this time, or are you going to come back with more regurgitated talk fest?

Some more actual data for you. The 2nd link is interesting as it shows the reduction in cost for all energy times from 2010 to last year

https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-levelized-cost-of-storage-and-levelized-cost-of-hydrogen/
https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
1) So in the history of SA, you have never had a blackout before?

I've certainly lived through enough blackouts before RE to know any statement that sas RE will drive more blackouts is compete and utter crap.

The cable isn't the only source of electron's to Sth Aust or even generated in Sth Aust, an improved inter-connected grid wil help provide a robust supply as it removes single points of failure. Once SA gets the NSW link, the supply will been even more reliable all round.

2) No, you are not entitled to an opnion of other states or countries when you state others are not entitled to an opinion of yours.

Oh, bringing up a discussion with someone else 6mth ago is your come back. That poster made an abusive statement, I called him on it and its now history. I've done the same to you more recently and will happily do it again if you go down the same path.

You are wasting your time because you have no interest any any other data other than your own opinion.

3) Re Chine, I shared the link with the correct info. Unless you are competing against home made socks or something, then you are wrong.

4) Average income in China vs average income in Australia
Now compare that against power prices for both.

When you have done that, come back to me, or whats next from you. Look Chinese food in China is cheaper than Australia, it must be RE.

One more time, the RE mix in the Chinese and Australian grids is roughly the same, your logic (loosely defined) is completely and utherly false.

5) You kept on about DT long after he left office.


Are you really done this time, or are you going to come back with more regurgitated talk fest?

Some more actual data for you. The 2nd link is interesting as it shows the reduction in cost for all energy times from 2010 to last year

https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-levelized-cost-of-storage-and-levelized-cost-of-hydrogen/
https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth
RTT_Rules
All of this is WRONG.

Not just a little bit wrong, but very wrong.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
That poster made an abusive statement, I called him on it and its now history. I've done the same to you more recently and will happily do it again if you go down the same path.
RTT_Rules
No, what actually happened was that Valvegear got sick to death of replying to your dot point word salads only to have you come back with the same wrong answers that you'd come up with in response yet again - over and over again. So he just stopped responding to you - who can blame him?

What he said at one point (September last year) was this:
I have done you the courtesy of a detailed response. I have answered all of your points carefully. This is the last time. Please don't bother with any more false accusations, fairy stories and criticism of things that you alone have dreamed up.
Valvegear
He was bang on the money wasn't he.

You dream stuff up - you write things that are utter falsehoods without substantiation. You think your own opinion on what's going on is correct while everyone else is wrong.
I reserve the right to show you up as a poster of irrelevant nonsense.
Valvegear
Which is pretty much all the time, isn't it RTT_Rules.
...and your deplorable spelling, that is unfortunate.
Valvegear

He's talking about you alright! I've frequently clashed with Valvegear in the past but his response to you was dead right - and he wasn't being rude, he was being accurate.

And he just gave up talking to you which was really a good move wasn't it.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Just because Shane is too polite/ humble to pull you up on it…personal comments…and you know exactly what I mean.
Literally grasping at straws in a vain attempt to support your lost cause is appalling behaviour.

M.
You just got off a plane didn't you.

Hypocrite.
don_dunstan

What's that shrill comment got to do with anything at all. Talk about desparately grasping at straws.

M.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: In exile
I'm really just wasting my time here.
don_dunstan
I'm guessing that there are around 47,809 registered users, plus countless lurkers who would be delighted if you didn't!

I think in the future I'm not going to respond to your rants unless I feel like it.
don_dunstan
And yet you still do.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Just because Shane is too polite/ humble to pull you up on it…personal comments…and you know exactly what I mean.
Literally grasping at straws in a vain attempt to support your lost cause is appalling behaviour.

M.
You just got off a plane didn't you.

Hypocrite.

What's that shrill comment got to do with anything at all. Talk about desparately grasping at straws.

M.
The Vinelander
You're the one who is the staunch advocate for renewable energy - but you won't walk the walk.

Again, hypocrite. And it's 'desperately' not 'desparately'
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm really just wasting my time here.
I'm guessing that there are around 47,809 registered users, plus countless lurkers who would be delighted if you didn't!

I think in the future I'm not going to respond to your rants unless I feel like it.
And yet you still do.
Graham4405
You protest way too much for someone who reads my every word.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
That poster made an abusive statement, I called him on it and its now history. I've done the same to you more recently and will happily do it again if you go down the same path.
No, what actually happened was that Valvegear got sick to death of replying to your dot point word salads only to have you come back with the same wrong answers that you'd come up with in response yet again - over and over again. So he just stopped responding to you - who can blame him?

What he said at one point (September last year) was this:
I have done you the courtesy of a detailed response. I have answered all of your points carefully. This is the last time. Please don't bother with any more false accusations, fairy stories and criticism of things that you alone have dreamed up.
He was bang on the money wasn't he.

You dream stuff up - you write things that are utter falsehoods without substantiation. You think your own opinion on what's going on is correct while everyone else is wrong.
I reserve the right to show you up as a poster of irrelevant nonsense.
Which is pretty much all the time, isn't it RTT_Rules.
...and your deplorable spelling, that is unfortunate.

He's talking about you alright! I've frequently clashed with Valvegear in the past but his response to you was dead right - and he wasn't being rude, he was being accurate.

And he just gave up talking to you which was really a good move wasn't it.
don_dunstan
Never read it. Reading it now, it was a pile of crap then and still is now, there is no context of what was said prior and as it was over 6mths ago, I think its very much in the past and you are just belittling yourself to waste your time to even bring it up in a comletely unrelated thread.

If someone wants to make personal insults, then I'll call them on it. I've let it go in the past, but enough is enough with people who cannot control tehir temper in what is a freidnly chat group. I also called another poster in another thread and I have you. At the end of the day, no matter what anyone says or believes in, there is no need to make it personal, this is a rail interest group, nothing more or less. However some people like you have shown in the past that as soon as someone repeatitly states something that they don't agree and their argument has run out of buff, they then get a $hits and lead with a verbal insult. I'm sure if this convo was in person they may try and make it physical or maybe tehy just wouldn't get as carried away. Regardless this is clearly bullying and we are not in a 1970/80's school yard anymore.

Now, I suggest you focus on yourself rather than picking on someone else fight to justify your own Bull$hit.

Have an issue with what I've said, then spare others and PM me like I'd said so many times before to prevent the thread being dragged down by you yet again to the gutter and having the mods close it. However I'll make a comment now that you have never ever done this, which says it all.

This topic, which is actually off-topic is now closed from my side.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE


Some more actual data for you. The 2nd link is interesting as it shows the reduction in cost for all energy times from 2010 to last year

https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-levelized-cost-of-storage-and-levelized-cost-of-hydrogen/
https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growthAll of this is WRONG.

Not just a little bit wrong, but very wrong.
don_dunstan
You wish it was wrong.

Where is your data?

I don't know how a battery, whether it be hydro, chemical or what ever plus solar and wind with gas turbine is such a hard technical concept to understand.

As for reliance on HV links, even when yuo have Northern you were reliant on a HV link.

NSW which has been a net importer of power for over a decade, is reliant on the HV link to Qld, which is currently being further upgraded to connect with Snowy system as part of snowy 2.0. Like Parkes will be the hub for interstate rail, SW NSW will be the hub for the interstate NEM electricty grid by 2025.

Hobart is reliant on the one HV link across the state from the north

SEQ is reliant on the HV link from CQ.

NQ is reliant on the HV link from CQ

The data on costs of power generation (linked above) is well documented globally, if you choose to ignore this then good for you, but don't argue against it with nothing.

Anyway Don, I think this debate has well past its use by date and I'll leave it there before the mods step in as you clearly don't give a $hit what anyone says or provides.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Never read it. Reading it now, it was a pile of crap then and still is now, there is no context of what was said prior and as it was over 6mths ago, I think its very much in the past and you are just belittling yourself to waste your time to even bring it up in a comletely unrelated thread.
RTT_Rules
Nah I think he was banging his head against the same stuff that I'm banging my head against right now.

Although I must admit it was my choice to respond this time.
If someone wants to make personal insults, then I'll call them on it. I've let it go in the past, but enough is enough with people who cannot control tehir temper in what is a freidnly chat group. I also called another poster in another thread and I have you. At the end of the day, no matter what anyone says or believes in, there is no need to make it personal, this is a rail interest group, nothing more or less. However some people like you have shown in the past that as soon as someone repeatitly states something that they don't agree and their argument has run out of buff, they then get a $hits and lead with a verbal insult.
RTT_Rules
If I went through this thread and the Russia/Ukraine one there'd be heaps of personally abusive stuff from you there directed at me - not that I care but if I was going to make an overall point it would have to be that you can't get shirty on this board because someone else's opinion is different to yours.

And you can change your mind about things - if you'd asked me a few years ago I would have had an opinion on world politics that we had a duty to contain overt aggression towards the Western bloc but now seeing as we've lost the war against Afghanistan (after twenty futile years of occupation) I'm less inclined to think we should be sending any troops of ours off-shore for any reason.

Long story short, I agree with you that nobody should call anyone names or lose their temper.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
You wish it was wrong. Where is your data? I don't know how a battery, whether it be hydro, chemical or what ever plus solar and wind with gas turbine is such a hard technical concept to understand. As for reliance on HV links, even when yuo have Northern you were reliant on a HV link. NSW which has been a net importer of power for over a decade, is reliant on the HV link to Qld, which is currently being further upgraded to connect with Snowy system as part of snowy 2.0. Like Parkes will be the hub for interstate rail, SW NSW will be the hub for the interstate NEM electricty grid by 2025. Hobart is reliant on the one HV link across the state from the north SEQ is reliant on the HV link from CQ. NQ is reliant on the HV link from CQ The data on costs of power generation (linked above) is well documented globally, if you choose to ignore this then good for you, but don't argue against it with nothing. Anyway Don, I think this debate has well past its use by date and I'll leave it there before the mods step in as you clearly don't give a $hit what anyone says or provides.
RTT_Rules


But a large and diffuse grid isn't necessarily the answer, in some ways it just multiplies the problem because adverse weather conditions that get replicated across the nation as I've said many times before. Think about it, people - we're relying mostly on the WEATHER to generate electricity, nationally. What is less predictable than planetary climate conditions, science still hasn't got that one completely right. And we're going to hand over control of our electricity to the Weather gods? Bad move, humanity!

The UK have been lucky because under-performing wind turbines can be compensated with two very HV cables a short distance to France's nuclear reactors. We aren't so lucky here in OZ, you're talking long distances to get to (say) Indonesia or South Asian coal fired power plants. On the other hand maybe buying cheap Asian electricity generated with coal is the only answer.

TAS is lucky - great geography for hydro although it could have been even bigger if the tide hadn't turned with Franklin-below-Gordon. They had trouble with a drought a few years back but otherwise a very reliable mostly 'green' kinda system. But an exception in Australia - otherwise there's only coal to ensure continuous sources of generation especially early evening when 'renewables' have their greatest challenge.

But yeah, you can't change my mind - we're going to have real problems even with a huge, national (bar WA) power network if we opt for 50%+ 'renewables'. We aren't at a point where this will work and I'm betting the cost of batteries will not have had the same advance that it did in the last ten years - Musk has been trying to buy up sources of rare earth minerals recently because their scarcity for batteries is having problems right now.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Just because Shane is too polite/ humble to pull you up on it…personal comments…and you know exactly what I mean.
Literally grasping at straws in a vain attempt to support your lost cause is appalling behaviour.

M.
You just got off a plane didn't you.

Hypocrite.

What's that shrill comment got to do with anything at all. Talk about desparately grasping at straws.

M.
You're the one who is the staunch advocate for renewable energy - but you won't walk the walk.

Again, hypocrite. And it's 'desperately' not 'desparately'
don_dunstan

Now you're completely unhinged...

Perhaps a tinny and oars would have been more to your liking to cross Bass Strait...

You idiot Exclamation

M
  Sonofagunzel Minister for Railways

Mike, your posts never fail to disappoint.  Keep it up.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Mike, your posts never fail to disappoint.  Keep it up.
Sonofagunzel

Happy to oblige when I'm given so much material from the RW..'s...oops to work with.

M.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Now you're completely unhinged...

Perhaps a tinny and oars would have been more to your liking to cross Bass Strait...

You idiot Exclamation

M
The Vinelander
If you want to save the planet from the ravages of the carbon monster YOU are the one who is responsible, not other people and not the government.

You aren't willing to make changes to your own lifestyle? You're a HYPOCRITE who thinks everyone else should do the heavy lifting on your behalf. Werribee creek gorge would have been just as lovely as Tasmania I'm sure, but you could have ridden your bike there.
Happy to oblige when I'm given so much material from the RW..'s...oops to work with. M.
The Vinelander

You couldn't care less about the planet you hypocrite.

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