Andrews Government dodges questions over North Shore station as commuters hit out at treatment

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 28 Apr 2022 12:17
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
But no rail

“A new port base at Geelong is also expected to lead to increased passenger growth that would benefit the Tasmanian tourism industry from secondary markets of New South Wales, Queensland and South Australia, as well as increased passenger growth from regional Victoria.”

Mr Grainger said the company would maintain its “last to leave, first to arrive” freight service. “The new Geelong facility will feature a dedicated freight terminal, streamlined and segregated passenger and freight entry and exit points, 150 truck parking bays and a 24/7 secure freight yard.

“The new freight yard will enable cargo pick up and drop off at any time, day or night, with access to heavy transport approved roads.
Press Release

Honestly how does this happen when you have rail access already at the dock?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

There's no rail at Station Pier. It's a roll on roll off operation. Freight is on a trailer (at least). You'd have to transship the rail freight onto some sort of wheeled vehicle. At least some of the containers will come from an inland port such as Altona.
  historian Chief Commissioner

If Port Phillp Ferries were fair dinkum, they'd run ferry shuttles between the SoT port and the Geelong waterfront. Not a direct connection to a railway station, but that same ferry could then continue to Melbourne after a brief stop.

I was going to ask why on earth the Tasmanian Ferry would not dock into Cunningham Pier?
bevans

Cunningham Pier is not owned by the Port of Geelong. It's owned & operated by the Costa Property Group.

Have a look at the landside infrastructure being constructed for the terminal.

https://engage.geelongport.com.au/spiritoftasmania

Not something you could fit landside at Cunningham Pier.
  historian Chief Commissioner

But no rail

“A new port base at Geelong is also expected to lead to increased passenger growth that would benefit the Tasmanian tourism industry from secondary markets of New South Wales, Queensland and South Australia, as well as increased passenger growth from regional Victoria.”

Mr Grainger said the company would maintain its “last to leave, first to arrive” freight service. “The new Geelong facility will feature a dedicated freight terminal, streamlined and segregated passenger and freight entry and exit points, 150 truck parking bays and a 24/7 secure freight yard.

“The new freight yard will enable cargo pick up and drop off at any time, day or night, with access to heavy transport approved roads.

Honestly how does this happen when you have rail access already at the dock?
bevans

That's a consequence of the design of the ships.

The Spirits are Ro-Ro ships. All cargo is physically moved on and off the ship loaded on road vehicles - usually semi-trailers.
The ships have no capability to load containers or bulk cargo.

(Before anyone suggests it, they are also not designed and could not be used to load rail vehicles. Even if you did, there'd be no point as the gauge in Tasmania is different to Victoria.)
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
But no rail


Honestly how does this happen when you have rail access already at the dock?

That's a consequence of the design of the ships.

The Spirits are Ro-Ro ships. All cargo is physically moved on and off the ship loaded on road vehicles - usually semi-trailers.
The ships have no capability to load containers or bulk cargo.

(Before anyone suggests it, they are also not designed and could not be used to load rail vehicles. Even if you did, there'd be no point as the gauge in Tasmania is different to Victoria.)
historian
And before anybody suggests yet again a train passenger station.

It is ONE ship per day.
A shuttle coach to Geelong Station and drop offs around town would amply cope with the load.
If it gets too busy, then TWO coaches. QED.

cheers
John
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

In summer there are some additional daytime crossings, although you'd still only need one coach.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Hand-in-hand with the move, Spirit of Tasmania I & II (Length 192m, Gross Tonnage 30,000) are being replaced by Spirit of Tasmania IV & V (Length 212m, Gross Tonnage 48,000). Under construction now and due late 2023.

https://www.spiritoftasmania.com.au/new-ships
  Tony M. Junior Train Controller

I suspect you wouldn't want to put serious money on the Spirit of Tasmania making Geelong its forever home. Dropping people off 70km or so from Melbourne - where you'd assume many of them will be heading, even if they're just passing through to head to Sydney or further north - is not exactly a step up in service for passengers no matter how much everyone else tells them it's ideal for exploring the Surf Coast.

A shuttle bus to Geelong station is the most likely option for those without cars, especially if they're serious about trying to boost local tourism. North Shore station is a great advertisement for being anywhere but North Shore station, plus you wouldn't want to be standing around there with any kind of luggage for long.

It's possible that after a number of years people will forget that the ferry used to drop them in the heart of Melbourne. I think it's more likely that either someone will start a rival service or the Spirit of Tasmania will find a way to run at least some services direct to Melbourne.
  historian Chief Commissioner

I suspect you wouldn't want to put serious money on the Spirit of Tasmania making Geelong its forever home. Dropping people off 70km or so from Melbourne - where you'd assume many of them will be heading, even if they're just passing through to head to Sydney or further north - is not exactly a step up in service for passengers no matter how much everyone else tells them it's ideal for exploring the Surf Coast.

A shuttle bus to Geelong station is the most likely option for those without cars, especially if they're serious about trying to boost local tourism. North Shore station is a great advertisement for being anywhere but North Shore station, plus you wouldn't want to be standing around there with any kind of luggage for long.

It's possible that after a number of years people will forget that the ferry used to drop them in the heart of Melbourne. I think it's more likely that either someone will start a rival service or the Spirit of Tasmania will find a way to run at least some services direct to Melbourne.
Tony M.

Of course it should be remembered that the Bass Strait ferries have not always run from Station Pier.

In the days of the private companies, the service ran from the Yarra north wharf. Before construction of the Spencer St bridge, I I believe it was from a location near what is now the Aquarium.

The Princess and the Empress ran from Webb Dock. We only travelled twice. Once we took the car, but the second time we used public transport. Memory is slightly vague, but the journey to Webb Dock involved an special MMTB bus from Spencer Street station. There was another bus at Devonport to the station, and, of course, the Tasman Limited to Hobart.

As for movement back to Station Pier, I wouldn't hold my breath. The notable feature of the mockups of the new Geelong terminal is the large area for marshalling road vehicles for loading. Station Pier has little room, and when I've been there around sailing time it's been packed. I'd suspect that there simply isn't the room to service the larger ferries on order.

As for foot passengers, what is currently provided at Devonport? There's no mention of any bus connection on the web site. And what would you connect to anyway? Most passengers would be going beyond Devonport.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

As far as rail goes, the move may boost the case for an inland port for the Geelong area, but that’s someone else’s baby, not TT-Line’s.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Only 10 % of SOT pax are walk ups.  So for them VLP to North Geelong then taxi.  To/From "The Overdue" at North Shore taxi job. If  SoT and CoGG were pro-active they would put on FREE shuttle bus.

Before the Car Ferries the "Taroona" ferry sailed from Princes Pier (in the 1950,s) at Port Melbourne now just a sea of piles seen West of Station Pier.

New ferries are on order from Scandinavia and the new loading ramps at Corio Quay can load cars and trucks at the same time.
  L1150 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Pakenham Vic.
Mentioning Bass Strait ferries that did not use Station Pier, there was a Cat that used Port Welshpool as it's base. My parents used it and said it was great. The drive to Pt Welshpool was no problem and the fast crossing meant that the whole journey was still less than the overnight SOT. My parents even generously offered to pay for me and my family to use it, but before we had a chance to take them up on the offer, it ceased operations! I guess people not wanting to drive would have a problem. The slow old Yarram pass had ceased to run and I think the replacement coach wasn't much better. L1150.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland

As for foot passengers, what is currently provided at Devonport? There's no mention of any bus connection on the web site. And what would you connect to anyway? Most passengers would be going beyond Devonport.
historian
The ferry terminal at Devonport Is on the East side of the Mersey River, It's about a 4 km walk (via shared pathway) to the Centre on the City.

TT Line do operate a little shuttle boat across the Mersey from where the SoT docks to the West bank on the river (near where a disused railway passenger platform exists, was that Devonport Railway Station) It seems the shuttle boat operates on demand, but Is subject to weather and other operational conditions.

The Tasmanian Intercity Hobart to Burnie (vv) Road Coach service (Redline) does call at Devonport (effectively connecting the SoT Ferry service to Hobart (vv) and all other towns along the way via Launceston.
  historian Chief Commissioner


As for foot passengers, what is currently provided at Devonport? There's no mention of any bus connection on the web site. And what would you connect to anyway? Most passengers would be going beyond Devonport.The ferry terminal at Devonport Is on the East side of the Mersey River, It's about a 4 km walk (via shared pathway) to the Centre on the City.

TT Line do operate a little shuttle boat across the Mersey from where the SoT docks to the West bank on the river (near where a disused railway passenger platform exists, was that Devonport Railway Station) It seems the shuttle boat operates on demand, but Is subject to weather and other operational conditions.

The Tasmanian Intercity Hobart to Burnie (vv) Road Coach service (Redline) does call at Devonport (effectively connecting the SoT Ferry service to Hobart (vv) and all other towns along the way via Launceston.
Nightfire

TTLine? I thought the ferry was run by the Devonport council (https://www.merseylink.com.au/ferry/).

So the short answer is that TTLine assume that you'll arrive/depart in a car (if only a taxi) at Devonport. You can walk it, but it's neither short or convenient.

I see no reason why they'd not assume the same at Geelong.

(& yes, that was Devonport station. I can remember seeing the Empress from the platform. From memory there wasn't a long wait from arriving on the bus transfer to the train arriving.)
  historian Chief Commissioner

Mentioning Bass Strait ferries that did not use Station Pier, there was a Cat that used Port Welshpool as it's base. My parents used it and said it was great. The drive to Pt Welshpool was no problem and the fast crossing meant that the whole journey was still less than the overnight SOT. My parents even generously offered to pay for me and my family to use it, but before we had a chance to take them up on the offer, it ceased operations! I guess people not wanting to drive would have a problem. The slow old Yarram pass had ceased to run and I think the replacement coach wasn't much better. L1150.
L1150

Never used it unfortunately; it only ran for a year or so. At the time it was reported that it wasn't continued because it could get very bouncy in the Strait on the cat, even in moderate weather, and that eventually caused the passenger numbers to crash.

(It didn't run in winter, or in storms. The later, in particular, meant it was slightly unreliable.)
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Mentioning Bass Strait ferries that did not use Station Pier, there was a Cat that used Port Welshpool as it's base. My parents used it and said it was great. The drive to Pt Welshpool was no problem and the fast crossing meant that the whole journey was still less than the overnight SOT. My parents even generously offered to pay for me and my family to use it, but before we had a chance to take them up on the offer, it ceased operations! I guess people not wanting to drive would have a problem. The slow old Yarram pass had ceased to run and I think the replacement coach wasn't much better. L1150.
L1150
George Town was the terminal on the Tasmania side (for this former SeaCat ferry service) the ferry terminal has mostly been demolished, only the ferry mooring wharf and a loading ramp remain (on private Riverside land, that's up for sale)
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
I think it's more likely that either someone will start a rival service or the Spirit of Tasmania will find a way to run at least some services direct to Melbourne.
Tony M.

Do you mean like the catamaran service from Port Welshpool...now what ever happened to that Question

Mike.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line

As for foot passengers, what is currently provided at Devonport? There's no mention of any bus connection on the web site. And what would you connect to anyway? Most passengers would be going beyond Devonport.
historian

Nothing at Devonport apart from a taxi.

We, not unfit blokes walked into town from the ferry at Easter and wheeled our luggage accordingly.

M.
  historian Chief Commissioner

I think it's more likely that either someone will start a rival service or the Spirit of Tasmania will find a way to run at least some services direct to Melbourne.

Do you mean like the catamaran service from Port Welshpool...now what ever happened to that Question
The Vinelander

It's running a ferry service in Trinidad and Tobago. Unless it sank; the Wiki page is slightly ambiguous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSC_INCAT_046
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
I think it's more likely that either someone will start a rival service or the Spirit of Tasmania will find a way to run at least some services direct to Melbourne.

Do you mean like the catamaran service from Port Welshpool...now what ever happened to that Question

It's running a ferry service in Trinidad and Tobago. Unless it sank; the Wiki page is slightly ambiguous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSC_INCAT_046
historian
I'm a bit confused:
HSC INCAT 046 was constructed for TT-Line and operated across Australia's Bass Strait on the world's longest distance high speed ferry service (marketed as Devil Cat), between Station Pier, Port Melbourne, Victoria to The Esplanade, George Town, Tasmania
Wikipedia
So did this ferry run from Station Pier or Port Welshpool?



Also, on a separate note, 2 pages in to this thread, am I the only one that thinks it needs a new title? The current one seems a bit inappropriate.

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