1022 & Valley Heights

 
  TBP Minister for Railways

Location: Singleton
Hello, just intrested in knowing how the restoration of 1022 is going, I see the boiler is looking good. And also how many parts on the loco can be reused again, such as whistle if they were not to beyond repair?
I wish Valley Heights good luck.

Also I notice that they still own 1308, which is at NSWRTM.
Also I noticed that they had an end platform car a little different to FO's and a bit like a pullman, what ever happened to that carriage?
Thank you, Paul.

Also if they need any parts made in blacksmithing them I'm sure that the Blacksmith Forge at Richmond Vale Railway Museum would be able to help
with Valley Heights.

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  Maikha Moderator Not a gunzel

http://infobluemountains.net.au/locodepot/tram/exhibits_1022.shtml

Some more info on 1022.


Something has always facinated me about Saddle Tank locomotives, after seeing a few at the RTM and the ILRMS (And a few odds and sodds lying around in Lithgow). I'd love to see one in operation, and will surely be supporting the 1022 restoration project through whatever means.


Cheers
Maikha "V" Ly

P.S. Paul, have you considered taking a visit to Valley Heights one day? I sure am now after yesterday's pasing by visit.
  TBP Minister for Railways

Location: Singleton
Maikha, at Richmond Vale Railway Museum, we operate Marjorie an 0-4-0ST Marjorie on occasions, and her sister locomotive Kathleen is also under restoration to operating condition. You can catch Marjorie in operation in September for Friend's of Thomas, and with a face is a dead set look alike of Persey.
In my photo album I have two pictures of Marjorie in the loco shed in smoking away.
  DD-19 Chief Train Controller

1022 is a dangerous little thing, and I my opinion should not be used again towing steam tram carriages. It and 1023 were responsible for at least one death and various accidents when in railway service. Its cab layout being the main fault, people falling off the end and getting run over.

It also likes to derail when running backwards, I always thought the people sitting at the end of the steam tram carriage closest to 1022 were brave souls.
  TBP Minister for Railways

Location: Singleton
Mate in America, they have a number of locos with open cab and operating in tourist service, so I can't see anything wrong with 1022 being returned to service, I know it will be, bring back old American built Locos in Australia, they all have that bulkey look to them, even the little ones.
  DD-19 Chief Train Controller

Mate, have u see the size of 1022 when coupled to a steam tram carriage?

Have u see the way the carriage behaves when derailed at low speed being pushed by 1022?

I just think it shouldn't be used in conjunction with tram stuff.
  tezza Chief Commissioner

I think the problem with 1022 derailing was more to do with the condtion of the track at Parramatta and not the locomotive. It was obvious for years that track repair and maintenance only occured after a derailment .There was no preventative maintenance of the running line.
  TBP Minister for Railways

Location: Singleton
Well at RVRM, Marjorie has been of the rails three times in it's preservation life, one was that the loco was to short of good boiler pressure and hit some wagons a bit to hard, another was using the triangle that heads towards Pelaw Main which the track it's self needs repair, and on one summers day operating Marge in 36 degree head came off the track because they had expended to much.

And SMR 10 class 2-8-2T No.24 came off only once near the Blacksmith shop again cause of expended rails. 0-4-0's are more temramental then locos carring wheels, but if you work them well and don't work em to hard then they will behave most of the time well.
Must say RVRM saftey record is still at 100% with all very minor mishaps happening only when locos are running at very low speeds.

Just out of intrest where is the coal kept in 1022, as there is no bunker?
  tezza Chief Commissioner

there is a small bunker in the cab on the left hand side between the boiler and the cab wall that holds about one ton

some 1022 trivia

1022 has the saddle tank from 1023
Emu Gravel no 1 has the saddle tank from 1022
2ft guage Kiama 0 4 0 has the saddle tank from
Emu gravel no 1
  tezza Chief Commissioner

Why hasnt the tramway group cashed in their fire insurance policy
 to get everything restored that was damaged in the fire ?
 Its been over ten years now, 1022 should be restored and running
 again by now
  nazarail_member13 Locomotive Fireman

Location: Blacktown, Sydney, NSW
1022 is a dangerous little thing, and I my opinion should not be used again towing steam tram carriages. It and 1023 were responsible for at least one death and various accidents when in railway service. Its cab layout being the main fault, people falling off the end and getting run over.

It also likes to derail when running backwards, I always thought the people sitting at the end of the steam tram carriage closest to 1022 were brave souls.
"DD-19"



mate we are in the 21st century, if we can put a man on the moon i am sure we are technalogically advanced to put a small "railing" with a smallish "gate" if need be behind the cab or even a few safety measures.

alex
  DD-19 Chief Train Controller

Why hasnt the tramway group cashed in their fire insurance policy
to get everything restored that was damaged in the fire ?
Its been over ten years now, 1022 should be restored and running
again by now


I don't know if they got anything from their policy, if they did get a substantial payout then it should have gone on 1308 and building another KA, after fixing up 103A. An operational 1308 will earn more revenue than 1022.  

I think they are making a big mistake with 1022 with finances and limited human resources, but in groups like these there is very little business planning, just blind enthuaism. But I wish them luck with it.

I don't have anything to do with the group now, its too far away, although I think they are (or were) suffering declining membership possibly because of their location and older members expiring, as I received a letter about 6mths ago asking if I wanted to rejoin the group (after 15 years not being a member!). I'll send them a cheque for renewal, a little late, but can't help out anymore on weekends.
  Grantham Minister for Railways

Location: I'm with stupid!
1308 would be far more expensive to run and restore than 1022, and 1022 would be a far more useful size of loco---dare I ask who manually coals the engines his opinion? Not to mention that in the mayhem following the fire 1308 went to Thirlmere in bits, any engine in pieces is automatically harder to restore than one in one piece
  nosecone Chief Commissioner

1308 would be far more expensive to run and restore than 1022...
"Grantham"

More expensive to run (on what basis - per km?) but able to bring in better revenue, therefore potentially a better biz proposition ..... but that's all dependent on where they would each be able to run ..... and that is where?  Does anyone know where that will be?
  tezza Chief Commissioner

Why would anyone want to run on 50 metres of track anyway at Valley Heights. Looks like they badly picked a wrong location again to run.
I was out there in January and was asked to join but there is nothing to make you enthusiastic about the place . The stevenson loco was looking
very nice bit it was a bit boring just chuffing up and back on 50 metres of track .They wont make any money the way they are going up there.
I know a few blokes who live in the Blue Mountains area who take the trouble to go to Zig Zag rather than the closer option of Valley Heights
  nosecone Chief Commissioner

Why would anyone want to run on 50 metres of track anyway at Valley Heights. Looks like they badly picked a wrong location again to run.
"tezza"

On a visit to the tram museum at Loftus a couple of years ago, the guide there told us that a welcoming hand had been extended to the Parramatta Park people to relocate the steam tram motor to Loftus (when the machine had been restored).  The guide said that the offer had been turned down.  As far as the motor is concerned, that could (at first glance) have been an excellent outcome but of course, their other std-gauge machinery is another question.  It was a little depressing though, to see 1308's frame sitting in the dirt at Thirlmere last weekend.  I hope that's a temporary resting place for it because it appears to be in quite good (partially-restored?) condition.
  Grantham Minister for Railways

Location: I'm with stupid!
As far as I can tell, the steam tram fellows are quite content to tinkle up and down the 700m of track at Valley Hts, as opposed to 600m in Parramatta Park. I consider this to be a perfectly noble occupation---Valley Hts depot has an interesting and varied number of roads and grades, and it would ensure that the machinery would wear out extremely slowly! I'm sure that they would not consider mainline operations, accreditation for the tram (vacuum braked) and the trailer (no continuous/automatic brake) would be problematic (at least!) for the fast, heavily utilised railway at the front gate! Even the other engines in the stable have too limited a water and coal capacity (including 1308) to seriously consider main line outings. Don't forget that lots of people visited the ZZR when the line only ran the one mile of Middle Road, I'm sure that they would have even if it was only 700m. Dare I say that engines in tourist service (with notable exceptions) are at their most interesting while starting, stopping and otherwise performing shunting type manouvers.
  tezza Chief Commissioner

Thats hardly going to attract enthusiasts to replace the
dead and dying members is it ?
  DD-19 Chief Train Controller

The society moved there because they had no where else to go at the time.

Before the fire some members wanted to move the operation to Ropes Creek, Dorrigo, or there was a hare brained idea proposed by one member to move the society to Panthers Leagues Club.

They were sold a cocking bull story by Parramatta Council for years about grand plans on the Parramatta Park redevelopment, and Parra council was holding over 100K in trust provided by the State Govt in the 1980's. for the tramway. I don't think they ever received the money.

The Society is fiercely independent and will not send 103A to Loftus, Dorrigo or anywhere else. I recall the loftus move was raised by a member at an AGM, but was howled down by members, I recall if the society folded the board at the time had the view that its collection would go to the RTM.

I don't think 103A will be suitable at loftus as they fitted railway flanges to it in its rebuild in 1988. 103A is an item which could generate a lot of revenue for the society, but to maximise the revenue it should be closer to Sydney, it would be  good to get it running on Sydney light rail a couple of times each year on a Sunday afternoon, I think they could get be political backing for such an idea.  I hope it is involved with 150 celebrations and is brought back to Sydney to visit.

1308 can generate revenue by operating on the main line, it could be the oldest??? operating loco in the state. It would generate more revenue that 1022 operating on the 3rd sunday of every month.

I suppose they will get 1308 back from RTM  after they prove themselves fixing 1022.
  nosecone Chief Commissioner

1308 can generate revenue by operating on the main line, it could be the oldest??? operating loco in the state.
"DD-19"

Entered service in Sep 1877, one year earlier than 1210 and 15 months before 1919.  She carried Beyer, Peacock b/n 1620 which meant that the company had built 140 more locos before they started on 1919.
  Grantham Minister for Railways

Location: I'm with stupid!
I don't think they are there to attract enthusiasts or make lots of money, I would be surprised if they didn't just enjoy what they are doing for its own sake. I'm sure that main line track access fees would be horrendous, and any tank engine wouldn't go far enough with what water it could carry with any weight of train on a 1/33. The 26 class, originally purchased as banking engines for that very stretch of track proved that. Good luck to them, they run steam engines in NSW and very few other societies in this state can manage that----everyone else deserves to be just a little jealous!
  nosecone Chief Commissioner

I don't think they are there to attract enthusiasts or make lots of money, I would be surprised if they didn't just enjoy what they are doing for its own sake.
"Grantham"


Back at Parramatta Park they seemed to have another worthy item on the agenda: providing enjoyment to visitors of the Park.  It would be good to see them be in a position to do that again somewhere, but 50m of track isn't going to cut it.

Everyone keeps talking about "mainline" usage of 1308 but there seems to be little talk about her potential use on the Loop-Line, which would be ideal for her.  The 'loco-in-pieces' concept frightens me: re-assembly (at a minimum) helps prevent components from scattering to the four winds ..... and we've seen th-a-a-a-a-t before ........
  DD-19 Chief Train Controller

I don't think they are there to attract enthusiasts or make lots of money, I would be surprised if they didn't just enjoy what they are doing for its own sake. I'm sure that main line track access fees would be horrendous


- I've heard Dorrigo people argue like that.

The simple fact is if you don't have sufficient member numbers or cash flow, the group will eventually die, which is a shame, considering it is one of the oldest ,est. 1956,  (if not the oldest) rail museum in Australia.
  tezza Chief Commissioner

the tramway group were astablished in 1954 ,when i visited last year they were celebrating their 50th year .
  " The 50th year of doing what ? " is a question i forwarded to one of their members pointing to the burnt and dismantled remains of 1022 , still awaiting attention , some 11 years after the fire . I was asked to join to help them so i enquired as to workers accomodation available for weekends.
  " there's none " was the reply . I explained that i live in the southern highlands and wont drive for 2 and a half hours for just one day , i would like to spend the weekends working
  " cant do it " was the reply i got , " we only work one Sunday a month "
  " What the @#$%!! "  You only work one day a month ? "
was my reply ,  " They must be in cahoots with Dorrigo " i thought
So i drive the one hour to Thirlmere or two hours to Canberra and spend a pleasant  weekend there working on the interesting steam projects instead
  joe Junior Train Controller

Location: Razorback NSW
we only work one Sunday a month


Whoever told You this was wrong they work up at Valley Heights
ever Saturday.

Cheers
Joe.

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