Auckland Electrification Thread

Topic moved from NZ and Oceania by bevans on 05 Feb 2015 19:39
  Rodo Chief Commissioner

Location: Southern Riverina
Photobucket is easy to access and after putting your pics there, just copy tPhotobucket's  forum link onto a reply. Very simple to place pics here.

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  Centralvulcan Train Controller

Try this for piccies

Not sure if this how its done but here are a few.  Hope I've got my ADLs and ADKs right.  The loco hauled cars are the ex UK MK11 somewhat rebuilt ones, and Wellington now has two different varieties again on the Palmerston North (Capital Connection) and Masterton trains.
  loud_noises Deputy Commissioner

Location: People's Republic of Auckland
Thanks for the welcome, I am spreading my wings quite significantly, although I am here more for the discussion about Queensland Railways than the Kiwi ones  Laughing

I am trying to get some archaeologists to look for Lomsoft Station. So far, it has been suggested that it is under the ASB building in Auckland  Laughing

Time to get out the JCB then?  8)

Re the requests for pics of AUK, I had many, BUT my PC was nicked last week, and the rest were held on the RP gallery (now inaccessible). So unfortunately I guess I've lost my entire digital collection... time for a serious gunzel weekend?
  john-ston Junior Train Controller

Location: Britomart Platform 1, waiting for the next train to Whangarei
Not sure if this how its done but here are a few. Hope I've got my ADLs and ADKs right. The loco hauled cars are the ex UK MK11 somewhat rebuilt ones, and Wellington now has two different varieties again on the Palmerston North (Capital Connection) and Masterton trains.

You got your ADLs and ADKs right, although there has been some changes with the trains since the pictures were taken.

The loco hauled cars (SAs) are run with a single loco and without the generator van (the carriage without windows), the second loco has been replaced with a driving trailer (SD). The ADKs are also now run in four car sets as one of their cabs was removed when they were refurbished and replaced with a generator compartment.

Then of course there is the SX set as well, which most decent Aucklanders hate because of its tendency to pick up the mistakes in the track and magnify it five times.

I'll try and see if I can take a few pictures tomorrow and upload them; I only have two pictures, one of the SX set and the other of an SD carriage.
  MarkWaller2 Junior Train Controller

Location: Cambridge, England
Slightly off topic, but what parts of the eurostar network operate on which voltages?

The high-speed network in Britain, France and Belgium is all 25kV. Sections of classic line used by Eurostars are as follows:
- Britain, until mid-November: London (Waterloo) - Southfleet Jcn at 750V DC third-rail (thereafter high-speed line all the way to London St. Pancras)
- France: Paris (Nord) to high-speed line, 25kV; high-speed line - Bourg St. Maurice (in the Alps), mixture of 1500V DC and 25kV
- Belgium: Brussels (Midi) - high speed line at Halle, 3kV DC

Other dual-voltage traction operating in Britain is all 25kV / 750V DC third-rail, as follows:
- Class 319 EMUs (Bedford - London - Brighton)
- Class 313 EMUs (DC for the ex-London Underground Moorgate line)
- Class 365 EMUs (DC capability not used at present)
- possibly other modern EMUs dual-capable but running on only one voltage

As far as I can recall, there are no dual-voltage locos.
  Somebody in the WWW Banned

Location: Banned
Bringing back this thread...
[quote=""]Auckland can, and will, have better transport
Tuesday, 2 October 2007, 3:39 pm
Press Release: Auckland Regional Council
Auckland can, and will, have better public transport

2 October, 2007

The Auckland Regional Council welcomes the Land Transport Management (Transport Services Licensing Act) Bill tabled in Parliament today.

"The Regional Council wants to deliver a more coordinated, holistic system where buses, ferries and trains work together to carry significantly more passengers," ARC chairman Michael Lee says.

"This must be done to keep up with population growth, ease traffic congestion, reduce pollution and simply make this city easier to get around."

"The public transport system has also got to be much more cost-effective, if ratepayers and taxpayers are to continue to support it."

"Aucklanders are already investing heavily in public transport though their regional rates - over half of every dollar collected in rates. The Auckland Regional Council is committed to giving the public value for their investment. Under the current legislative model, we are just not able to do that."

"More than a third of the region's passengers are currently carried on services over which the Auckland Regional Transport Authority has no influence in respect of service levels, punctuality and value for money. ARTA has had one hand tied behind its back.

"The region can, and will, have to do better."

In 2006-07 public transport patronage rose by 1.2 million trips to more than 52.4 million. The region's goal is to double that to 100 million within a decade, putting the region on a more sustainable path.

"Aucklanders want a decent public transport system, and the law changes proposed today are part of the Government's response to the region's call for fundamental improvements. Electrification of the region's commuter rail network is the next step."

The ARC must now assess the proposed legislation, and will work closely with the Auckland Regional Transport Authority and transport operators as it does so.

"We need to make the most of this opportunity to make a real difference and are confident that Parliament and the public will back necessary law changes," Mr Lee said.[/quote]
[quote=""]Locke, local candidates action on public transport
Monday, 24 September 2007, 11:30 am
Press Release: Green Party
Locke and local candidates took action on public transport

Auckland Green MP Keith Locke and Green members joined several local body candidates for an action to demonstrate the need for better connection between rail and bus services in Otahuhu, one day ahead of World Car-Free day Sat 22 Sept.

The candidates include Labour Councillor Richard Northey, Regional People candidate for the Auckland Regional Council, Maire Leadbeater, and City Vision candidates in Auckland City, Donna Wynd and Graeme Easte.

"The action sought to highlight a key public transport ‘black spot’ and what needs to be done by the incoming councils, and how central Government can help," Mr Locke, the Greens’ Spokesperson on Auckland Transport issues, said.

“We gathered at the Otahuhu Railway Station at 10.15am to walk the 1.2 kilometre to the bus station, to show the difficulty faced by people transferring between buses and trains at this key junction in the Auckland transport network. Previously the Green Party focussed on getting a decision to electrify the Auckland rail network, which was successful. Now we are turning our attention to transport hubs.

Keith Locke said:
“Previous Green campaigns have focused on electrifying the Auckland rail network and integrated ticketing for buses and trains. Now that these are on their way we are turning our attention to transport hubs.

The Green Party intends to follow this action with a ‘Get Connected’ campaign focussing attention on major transport junctions and investments, with a total cost of approaching $2 billion, currently being planned for Newmarket, Onehunga, Panmure and Manukau City. These major projects are an opportunity to develop integrated bus/train transfer stations, park-and-ride facilities and cycle-and-ride facilities at key junctions on the transport network. Failing to make these connections would be a lost opportunity and a misinvestment of public money.”

“We are also drawing attention to other junctions, such as Otahuhu, Penrose and Avondale, where the rail and bus networks ought to be connected, but no investment has yet been proposed.”

“There are good examples where the connections have been made, such as the park-and-ride bus station at Albany, and where they are being planned, such as New Lynn. Integrated transport hubs must also be developed at other strategic points.”

A dozen people took part, ranging in age from those in their late 60s to a 3 year old child in a push chair. It included two dogs and a man carrying luggage! They walked from the station to the Otahuhu Bus Centre - over 15 minutes walk - and some of us went back to Auckland City on the bus. Clearly there needs to be a whole new plan to improve rail/bus links at Otahuhu. The present station and its container backdrop are distinctly unappealing. The Auckland Growth Strategy projects high density residential developments around rail stations, but these are a long way off for Otahuhu. An interim step could be starting some of the bus services from the train station, connecting with incoming trains, which are now much more frequent.[/quote]
[quote=""]Orders for 40 electric trains on track despite lack of secure funding
5:00AM Thursday September 13, 2007
By Mathew Dearnaley

Auckland transport planners hope to place an order for about 40 electric trains as early as next year, even though funding is far from being secured for the project.

Government rail agency Ontrack also announced yesterday the appointment of a project director for its large share of Auckland's $1 billion-plus drive to electrification.

It has named its northern regional manager, Phil McQueen, to lead the task of electrifying Auckland's railway lines between Papakura and Swanson by 2013.

Mr McQueen, a former national manager of infrastructure for previous rail-track owners Tranz Rail and Toll NZ, worked as a signals engineer on the 1980s electrification of the main trunk line between Palmerston North and Hamilton.

The Auckland network will have a similar 25,000-volt overhead power supply to the main trunk line, which Mr McQueen said last night would give Ontrack a head-start in drawing on a high level of technical and maintenance expertise.

Meanwhile, the Auckland Regional Transport Authority is preparing to seek worldwide expressions of interest from suppliers of electric trains.

Chief executive Fergus Gammie told the Auckland Regional Council this week that the objective was to place an order for the trains next year for Auckland rail passengers to board by 2013.

Auckland's fleet of 31 diesel trains is struggling to keep up with demand which rose another 14 per cent in the year to June 30, to 5.74 million passenger trips. The transport authority has decided to order another eight to tide it over until electrification.

Mr Gammie said six of these would be six-car trains, compared with the four-car sets now being pulled by refurbished Toll locomotives, and they would remain useful after 2013 for services beyond Papakura and Swanson.

But despite the moves towards electrification, the regional council has yet to receive a clear indication of when the Government intends introducing legislation for a special road-fuel tax to pay for the project.

Council transport policy chairman Joel Cayford told his committee on Tuesday that the timing of legislation both for a regional fuel tax and for long-awaited reforms of the contracting system for subsidised bus and ferry services remained "a bit questionable at the moment. We need these in place to move forward".

A spokesman for Finance Minister Michael Cullen was unable to comment last night on whether the Government was having difficulty securing minor-party support for legislation allowing a regional fuel tax of up to 10c a litre on petrol and diesel.[/quote]
  john-ston Junior Train Controller

Location: Britomart Platform 1, waiting for the next train to Whangarei
The problem with trying to link buses and trains together at Otahuhu is the lack proximity of Great South Road to the Otahuhu Railway Station - if one re-routed buses from Great South Road to go to the roads by the rail line, you would end up with the buses having to swing around a different route, and it would completely miss Otahuhu village.

The buses could swing around by Westfield Station instead, although it would likely mean the death of Otahuhu Station.
  loud_noises Deputy Commissioner

Location: People's Republic of Auckland
A major weak point of buses in Jafaville that could be rectified with trains is buses from out my way, namely 50/51 from Cockle Bay / Shelly Pk / Howick, and 52 from Bucklands Beach / Macleans. They are massively overcrowded and at peak there is a huge number of them on the Ell-Pan Highway. Get all passengers bound for Brit to get off at Panmure Station, pile em onto the train, all included in a single fare o' course! Pax to Newmarket can do the same at Ellerslie Station, where passengers to other destinations along the route can transfer to an abundance of other routes in Ellerslie. Would turn the sardine cans into buses, and mean they don't travel in threesomes so much anymore (reason H&E Buses are known as the 3 bus company).
  john-ston Junior Train Controller

Location: Britomart Platform 1, waiting for the next train to Whangarei
Yes, and how many of those City bound passengers would be pleased to find out that it takes longer for them to get to their ultimate destination, and involves a walk up a steep hill. Better idea would be to improve the 56x frequencies (x representing any number, not express) and see how successful that is. The 56x lot terminate at Panmure Station and pretty much parallel the 68 through to Botany anyways.

I believe that the 50/51/52/53/54/55/68 should be kept in their present configuration and frequencies expanded. Of course, in the longer term, there needs to be a rail line from Glen Innes through to Manukau via Bucklands Beach, Howick, Meadowlands, Botany and Ormiston Road, but we have capacity issues at Britomart and money problems.
  loud_noises Deputy Commissioner

Location: People's Republic of Auckland
OT, but heres a thought. If the buses have these nice LED boards, and all buses have the GPS tranceivers fitted to update the boards, then why the bloody hell isn't this done with the trains? There's a helluva lot less trains and stations than buses and bus stops. It'd beat the Arabindianglish announcements we get at stations now.
  Somebody in the WWW Banned

Location: Banned
Another article, albeit late Smile
[quote=""]First steps towards electric rail
5:00AM Friday October 05, 2007
By Mathew Dearnaley

Construction manager Robert French looks over the work that has started at Newmarket. Photo / Dean Purcell

Physical preparations are starting for Auckland's $1 billion-plus rail electrification project, with the deepening of a tunnel under Newmarket's main street.

Railway tracks being duplicated beneath Broadway - part of a $70 million project to provide Newmarket with a new station - have to be laid deep enough to leave room in the tunnel for overhead power lines.

Diggers this week started scooping earth and rock from the floor of the 80m tunnel to give it a 5.5m height clearance through its passage under Broadway, Davis Cres and a multi-storey parking building sandwiched between the two streets.

The Government rail agency Ontrack will also close a railway level-crossing bisecting neighbouring Kingdon St tomorrow, to allow a temporary station to be built between there and where the tunnel emerges from under Davis Cres.

That means motorists will be unable to use Kingdon St to bypass Broadway until two temporary platforms are removed in mid-2009, after the opening of a permanent replacement on Newmarket Station's existing site.

The Newmarket Business Association suspects the closure will end up being permanent, as trains become more frequent and transport authorities will want to minimise road traffic movements under railway power lines.

General manager Cameron Brewer said yesterday that, although he believed every Aucklander would support electrification, Kingdon St was a key link for which the effect of closure to through traffic had yet to be assessed.

But Ontrack project director Ted Calvert said his organisation had applied for the crossing to be closed only while the temporary station was in use, and it would be up to the Auckland City Council as the road-controlling authority to decide whether to keep it that way.

His contractors have between now and the end of January to build temporary platforms and shelters at Kingdon St, for western train passengers, and south of Remuera Rd, for those using the southern line.

The project is being run in partnership with the Auckland Regional Transport Authority, which willpresent a design for the new permanent station to Newmarket businesses and residents at an open day next month.

It is likely to include an elevated concourse off Remuera Rd, with stairs, elevators and escalators for passengers to reach platforms below.

Mr Calvert said Ontrack was spending about $50 million on the main Newmarket project, leaving it to the transport authority to pay for the new station building.

But his organisation will also spend about $20 million duplicating the western line between Kingdon St and Boston Rd, and building another new station between Khyber Pass Rd and Park Rd to give passengers easier access to facilities such as the Auckland City Hospital and the Domain.

That will allow it to close the Boston Rd station, which Ontrack believes is in an undesirable location under the Southern Motorway and close to Mt Eden Prison.

The Broadway tunnel is the first of about 40 structures straddling the Auckland rail network which need modifications before electric trains can start running between Papakura and Swanson by 2013.

Yesterday, Waitakere City Council opened a $2 million "park and ride" area of 100 vehicle spaces at the remodelled Sunnyvale railway station.[/quote]
[quote=""]Tunnel vision for Newmarket trains

REVAMP: The Sarawia St rail crossing in Newmarket could be replaced by an overbridge or tunnel before electrification begins in 2013.

The days of waiting in cars for trains to pass could be numbered for Sarawia St users if a recommendation to the Auckland Regional Council gets the green light.

The Newmarket level crossing is one of six in greater Auckland to be identified as a priority for a grade-separated crossing before rail is electrified in 2013.

Grade separation refers to crossing the railway line at different heights.

This means crossings could be replaced with overbridges or tunnels beneath the tracks.

In a report to the regional council, consultants estimate the cost of each project to be close to $10 million.

This would escalate dramatically after electrification because of safety issues of building next to and over live high-voltage wires.

The report says responsibility for grade-separating level crossings lies with the territorial authorities - in this case the Auckland City Council - and Land Transport New Zealand.

City council passenger transport manager Stuart Knarston says the Sarawia St crossing is a candidate for grade-separation because of its location north of Newmarket where two rail lines meet.

"Train frequency will increase significantly with the upgrade of the rail network and with double tracking," he says. "It will end up closing every two and a half minutes."

An accident at Sarawia St would have a major impact on the entire network, he says.

The council, with input from Ontrack, is investigating a potential grade-separated crossing.

Ontrack spokesperson Jenni Austin says while grade-separated crossings are not the company's responsibility, 'we are certainly happy to look at it with the council'.

Mr Knarston says the Auckland Regional Transport Authority is talking to the Transport Ministry and hoping to secure central government funding.

He says joint contributions from the city council, ARTA and central government via Ontrack could fund the projects.

Obtaining funding from Land Transport NZ could prove difficult, he says, because of the benefit cost ratio used to assess applications.

The report says the good safety record and current lack of severe delays combined with the high project cost make it difficult to achieve the minimum benefit cost ratio of 2.0.

An overbridge or tunnel to replace the Sarawia St crossing would require land acquisition.[/quote]
  Tonymercury Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Botany NSW
The link below will take you to a site where you can download information about the preliminaries for the electrification - I've just discovered a reference to 12 electric locomotives for hauling SA sets!  See -P13 of the PDF
  Tonymercury Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Botany NSW
New Lynn transport concept plan
Thursday, 11 October 2007, 1:59 pm
Press Release: Waitakere City

Waitakere decides its ideal New Lynn transport concept plan

Waitakere City Council has signed off on its concept plan for the New
Lynn bus and rail development project, and it is due to start work by
the end of the year.

The project – called the Transport Oriented Development (TOD) – calls
for the railway and station to be placed in a trench, to have a new
bus terminal located right alongside, new road connections and a
variety of other improvements.

The concept plan represents Waitakere City Council's project scope
designed to help develop a world class town centre, to serve
Waitakere and the Auckland region, until at least 2060.

New Lynn is identified by Waitakere and the regional Growth Strategy
as a major sub-regional growth centre whose population and commercial
sectors are expected to double within the foreseeable future.

The main part of the project is being carried out by ONTRACK - owners
of the rail tracks and corridor.

"ONTRACK is funded to duplicate and lower the track into a trench and
to build the station platforms. However, there is a huge amount of
detail that must be resolved to determine how well what is built
serves New Lynn. We are building for a big and busy future and so it
is critical we get that detail right," says Mayor Bob Harvey.

"We have had many experts working on a painstaking analysis of
exactly what should go where, and how it will function and what will
make people want to use it," he says.

"That is all covered in the concept plan which we're offering to
ONTRACK and our other regional partners such as ARTA and the ARA,
saying that this is our view of how the project should be built in
detail," he says.

The exact location of the station is considered critical to user
convenience and safety, with entrances outside the intersection of
Memorial Drive and Totara Avenue.

Station location is also vital to developing an effective bus/rail
interchange, with bus stops immediately outside the station.

This meant having sufficient road room to accommodate a large and
busy fleet of buses providing feeder services to and from the New
Lynn ward area, and other parts of the region.

Many of these buses would coincide with train services in both
directions, running at 10 minute intervals.

To avoid unnecessary congestion, bus layover locations will be taken
to the edge of town and the current bus station in New Lynn will
cease to function and become available for commercial or retail

This project is the centrepiece of a much larger revitalisation plan
for the town centre and the location and aesthetic of the new
amenities is considered vital to the development of a town centre
people want to live in, establish businesses in and socialise in.

Accordingly the concept plan calls for attractive buildings,
structures and open spaces to encourage people to use the area.
People using the area not only add to the bustle of an attractive
town centre, but being able to over-look rail and bus platforms adds
to their safety.

"Right now New Lynn is cut in half by the railway. Not only is that
inhibiting development, but road and rail traffic are in conflict
resulting in road congestion. That will get much worse as the town
centre grows and train services become more frequent.

"Using the TOD model, which we have seen working to good effect at
Subiaco in Perth, we can rejoin the two halves and get rail and road
out of each other's way. Better bus and rail services will promote
the use of public transport and free up the roads for commercial

"More people living in higher density housing adds to the economic
viability of the town centre as a business location – offering more
jobs; it also provides patronage for public transport. So the
benefits are circular," says Mayor Bob Harvey

The council will provide the concept plan to ONTRACK, ARTA, the ARA
and other major players in the development of Auckland
infrastructure – and recommended for adoption.

The Government has already committed $120 million to the project, and
council is providing funding of $20 million.
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
It's interesting to see Auckland talking about integrated ticketing.
  john-ston Junior Train Controller

Location: Britomart Platform 1, waiting for the next train to Whangarei
Geoffrey, we have been talking about integrated ticketing in Auckland for about five years now. What has stopped any action is legal problems (integrated ticketing cannot be forced on operators of profitable routes, and it cannot be a condition of a public transport contract either). It would be interesting to see what happens with integrated ticketing, although I do fear that it means the end of cheap train fares (train fares are about two-thirds that of buses)

In terms of the ARTA document, it is interesting (especially now that 2 car EMUs are off the agenda  Very Happy ), but what concerns me is the purchase of electric locos. While more electric stock would be nice, the problem is that the SAs have a useful life of about 25 years; that would basically mean that the ARC are buying locos that will get 20 years use before they need to be disposed of. Who would buy ex suburban electric Cape Gauge locos though? QR? Toll? Spoornet?
  Centralvulcan Train Controller

As far as I can recall, not all the current fleet of electrics purchased for the Main Trunk are in service - the voltage is right..... perhaps these are being considered, or perhaps they will buy used ex Japan... Is there 25Kv electrification there ? We seem to source our buses and other motor vehicles from there in used condition.......
  john-ston Junior Train Controller

Location: Britomart Platform 1, waiting for the next train to Whangarei
The only 25kV that I am aware of in terms of Japan is the Shinakansen; their narrow gauge system is almost completely 1500V DC. Also, all the usable EFs are in service. The ones that are not in service are generally in bits and pieces and are used as spare parts for the operable EFs
  colinw_mk2 Station Master, Kippa-Ring

The only 25KV AC in Japan is the Shinkansen - there is none on 3'6" gauge.

Most of the 3'6" and non-Shinkansen standard gauge is 1500V DC.

There is a limited amount of 20KV AC electrification on the 3'6" gauge.
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
The link below will take you to a site where you can download information about the preliminaries for the electrification - I've just discovered a reference to 12 electric locomotives for hauling SA sets!  See -P13 of the PDF

An interesting thing I notice in this report is that after the eletrification is completed EMUs and the SA sets will be used. I would have thought that the railcars would be better to keep for the non-electrified sections. Also what will happen to the SX set?
  colinw_mk2 Station Master, Kippa-Ring

Surely most of the railcars will be surplus after electrification.  Maybe a few to run to Helensville, Pukekohe or Huntly.

Are there still plans to re-start suburban rail in Christchurch?  The current Auckland DMUs might be good for a starter service there.
  john-ston Junior Train Controller

Location: Britomart Platform 1, waiting for the next train to Whangarei
What railcars? We call them DMUs down here and when you use the word railcar in a New Zealand context, we immediately think of the Silver Fern and the old Fiats.

The issue with keeping the ADKs and ADLs is their maximum speed. They can only go at a maximum of 80km/h. The SA sets, provided that the bogies are alright, can go at a maximum of 100km/h. Of course, when you are talking long distances such as routes to Helensville and so on, the difference can mean five to ten minutes.

With the plans to restart rail in Christchurch; all that would depend on the composition of Environment Canterbury (we just had local body elections here). Certainly, they could impose a ten cent fuel tax and get it up and running, although the main hindrance is that neither of their two lines goes near the CBD (the old central station was at Moorhouse Avenue, toward the south of Christchurch's CBD)

What is likely to happen is that the ADKs, ADLs and the SX set are probably going to make their way either to a scrap heap or a museum. My guess is that MoTaT will probably get an ADK and ADL set and possibly the SX set too. Ferrymead may be keen on an ADK and ADL as well, and some Western Australian Museums may be clamouring to get a few as well (although to restore them to their Transperth look could be problematic) and I bet that after all this, ADB773 will still be sitting at Westfield lonely and rejected  Crying or Very sad .
  Capegauge Chief Train Controller

What railcars? We call them DMUs down here and when you use the word railcar in a New Zealand context, we immediately think of the Silver Fern and the old Fiats.


Yes well we don't use such non-words or Kiwisms as "roading" or calling an electric train a "Unit", and don't get me started on Bach, jandals and other silly words.

If my understanding is correct the SX set is only leased and the idea of putting it in a Kiwi museum would horrify its owners.

The WAGR trains could go home but what would they do? Apart from Hotham Valley there seems little place for them to run, as they don't seem to be welcome on the main system. I doubt the government would want them as they would only run trains to places that required electric trains.
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
I'd personally like to see a couple of the NZ DMUs go to Brisbane to use on non-electrified runs eg Rosewood to Helidon.

Would it be possible to use the Silver Fern railcars on a run such as Auckland-Hamilton?
  john-ston Junior Train Controller

Location: Britomart Platform 1, waiting for the next train to Whangarei
The SX set is no longer leased, the ARC bought it back in June from Macquarie Bank. The only reason why it was leased was due to legal problems back in 2003. In fact, they are looking at revamping it now that they own it to ensure that it can last till 2013, which I fear may mean the end its reversible seats.

In terms of the ADKs and ADLs, I was thinking more return to WA as museum pieces, not for regular use. The ADKs will be 45 by the time they are retired and will deserve good rest. The ADLs may be newer, but they have been used very heavily down here on some very nasty routes. They will also deserve a rest. Chances are that at least some are going to stay in New Zealand museums though; and I plan to make my fortune, buy a section of land and buy them in a few years  Laughing .

Also, I don't think that Brisbane would want our DMUs. The ADLs would be 30, and anyways, I say that a push/pull fleet would be better. Would you want to buy some of our SAs instead?  Laughing . We will even con Toll into selling you the DQ class (ex 1460) to go with them.

The Silver Fern railcars can and have been used on Auckland to Hamilton, but their use on that route is not attracting a lot of political support. Environment Waikato are particularly keen on new rolling stock for that service
  colinw_mk2 Station Master, Kippa-Ring

The only potential applications for DMUs in the CityTrain area are on the standard gauge to Greenbank or Bromelton, or for services west of Rosewood.

In either case, something modern capable of 140km/h would be necessary, not some ancient hand-me-down.

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