New Car Set FN3 and other V/Line fleet changes

 
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
A66 officially withdrawn from service as of today 21/09/15 due to cost issues.
gomer
It ain't over 'till the scrapper's torch singes. Or the preservation mobs get her.

Sponsored advertisement

  N463 Locomotive Driver

A66 officially withdrawn from service as of today 21/09/15 due to cost issues.
It ain't over 'till the scrapper's torch singes. Or the preservation mobs get her.
LancedDendrite
Hopefully some A classes will be preserved. Especially A60 (Ex B60, VR's first Mainline diesel). Whilst we can't preserve everything, such a historically significant loco should be saved...

N463
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
It's sad to hear the end seems to have come for V/Line's A66, a historic and significant locomotive.

First brought into service as B66 on the 8th of December, 1952
Rebuilt with new engines and renumbered as A66 in 1985,
Wore a special commemerative livery to celebrate Australia's Bicentenery in 1988
Wore a special commemerative livery to promote Melbourne's failed bid to host the 1996 Olympic Games in 1990
Was the final A class in active service until as it would seem 21st of September 2015, all other A class having been placed into storage by both V/Line and Pacific National

After 63 years of fantastic service to the people of Victoria, it would seem the storage yard awaits.

Progress shall continue unabated, as always.

P.S,
I am going to assume that A66 was kept in service ahead of any of V/Line's other 3 A class due to the fact it was in the best mechanical shape, so continuing that theme, I suppose A60, A62 or A70 are not likely to replace it in active service.
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
A66 officially withdrawn from service as of today 21/09/15 due to cost issues.
It ain't over 'till the scrapper's torch singes. Or the preservation mobs get her.
LancedDendrite
Agreed. There has been that many "last runs" for the A class. its hardly worth noticing. boy who cried wolf scenario.
  ed31880 Train Controller

A66 officially withdrawn from service as of today 21/09/15 due to cost issues.
It ain't over 'till the scrapper's torch singes. Or the preservation mobs get her.
LancedDendrite
or it's on sold to another rail operator
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

3VL02 in service - 3VL03 in testing - 2VL 04 & 06 - trailer insertion and refurb.

SH 30 - door mods dynon.


N 467 ex CCO last week - fitted with new Abloy key locks in place of ROA 1

SG N 463 exam - N 458 still out of service

9 Z cars still out of Service

PH 453 - back in service after 16? Months  ( mods - new wheels - collision reps )
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
3VL02 in service - 3VL03 in testing - 2VL 04 & 06 - trailer insertion and refurb.

SH 30 - door mods dynon.


N 467 ex CCO last week - fitted with new Abloy key locks in place of ROA 1

SG N 463 exam - N 458 still out of service

9 Z cars still out of Service

PH 453 - back in service after 16? Months  ( mods - new wheels - collision reps )
SN7
VR's shortage of rolling stock could be overcome by VR going back to days gone by when VR constructed its own rolling stock, the quality of the carriages built for the spirit testifies as to what Newport was capable of and there is no doubt that future carriages could still be built in house.
There would no doubt be a time lag before such rolling stock would come into service but that delay would be no greater that if new cars were to be built by contractors in this country.
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
VR's shortage of rolling stock could be overcome by VR going back to days gone by when VR constructed its own rolling stock, the quality of the carriages built for the spirit testifies as to what Newport was capable of and there is no doubt that future carriages could still be built in house.
There would no doubt be a time lag before such rolling stock would come into service but that delay would be no greater that if new cars were to be built by contractors in this country.
Mufreight
I doubt V/Line has the skills or the resources to build any rollingstock any more. There'd probably be a significant lead time in setting up a facility and gaining the skillset required to do this.

Maintenance for the V/Line "classic" Fleet and the Vlocities is all contracted out to Bombardier. I would expect any new rollingstock at this stage to be built by them, especially considering they have the maintenance facility in West Melbourne (Dynon) and Dandenong manufacturing facility (currently where the 2-car Vlocities are being refurbished and the third car built and added to make the 3-car sets).
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

VR's shortage of rolling stock could be overcome by VR going back to days gone by when VR constructed its own rolling stock, the quality of the carriages built for the spirit testifies as to what Newport was capable of and there is no doubt that future carriages could still be built in house.
There would no doubt be a time lag before such rolling stock would come into service but that delay would be no greater that if new cars were to be built by contractors in this country.
I doubt V/Line has the skills or the resources to build any rollingstock any more. There'd probably be a significant lead time in setting up a facility and gaining the skillset required to do this.

Maintenance for the V/Line "classic" Fleet and the Vlocities is all contracted out to Bombardier. I would expect any new rollingstock at this stage to be built by them, especially considering they have the maintenance facility in West Melbourne (Dynon) and Dandenong manufacturing facility (currently where the 2-car Vlocities are being refurbished and the third car built and added to make the 3-car sets).
TheMeddlingMonk
The rollingstock that is now tending to give problems was all built by  Newport in the  N, Z and  H cars.  Just a matter of sheer age and intensive usage .

Newer stock in Sprinters and especially V/locity sets are extremely reliable. In fact the VL fleet is the most reliable vehicle type ever introduced to the country fleet achieving over 50,000 kms between major faults preventing a trip from running .

The N cars are due for a major upgrade especially of the air conditioning, and the N class locos need an upgrade of the technology in the cabs and drive train .
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I find it difficult to see the inordinate delay in sourcing replacement bogies for the Z cars. Another of the so called 'advantages' of broad gauge I suppose.

Are there not SG bogies relatively readily available that could go under the SG N cars to allow the cascading of their bogies for BG Z cars?
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
How hard it can it be to build and fit new bogies for the Z cars? Surely the guage shouldn't be an issue.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Bogies are tricky things hence BG being a potential problem as very few people use them these days. Therefore there may be little suitable modern 'off the shelf' stuff available, hence my thought to use the bogies off the SG cars which are almost certainly BG frames with push in wheelsets and get something far better for the SG rather than simply proliferating archaic BG designs with long delays.

Seemed to me that one may be able to have one's cake and eat it too? Question

Just dreaming.................................................
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

I find it difficult to see the inordinate delay in sourcing replacement bogies for the Z cars. Another of the so called 'advantages' of broad gauge I suppose.

Are there not SG bogies relatively readily available that could go under the SG N cars to allow the cascading of their bogies for BG Z cars?
YM-Mundrabilla
Another damning  "Blue Hills" saga of VLP MANAGEMENT to get replacement bogie frames for the 22 Z cars. An absolute disgrave this has dragged on for so long .  

There are only 15 sg N cars whereas as 22  Z cars require new bogie frames .

They some  30 cars worth are supposed to arrive from Overseas NOW, NB only new frames .

VLP really need to get some URGENCY into managing this issue .
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I find it difficult to see the inordinate delay in sourcing replacement bogies for the Z cars. Another of the so called 'advantages' of broad gauge I suppose.

Are there not SG bogies relatively readily available that could go under the SG N cars to allow the cascading of their bogies for BG Z cars?
Another damning  "Blue Hills" saga of VLP MANAGEMENT to get replacement bogie frames for the 22 Z cars. An absolute disgrave this has dragged on for so long .  

There are only 15 sg N cars whereas as 22  Z cars require new bogie frames .

They some  30 cars worth are supposed to arrive from Overseas NOW, NB only new frames .

VLP really need to get some URGENCY into managing this issue .
kuldalai
Government bureaucracy ! The department needs logging of all dead wood ! (along with other departments like the CFA)
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I find it difficult to see the inordinate delay in sourcing replacement bogies for the Z cars. Another of the so called 'advantages' of broad gauge I suppose.

Are there not SG bogies relatively readily available that could go under the SG N cars to allow the cascading of their bogies for BG Z cars?
Another damning  "Blue Hills" saga of VLP MANAGEMENT to get replacement bogie frames for the 22 Z cars. An absolute disgrave this has dragged on for so long .  

There are only 15 sg N cars whereas as 22  Z cars require new bogie frames .

They some  30 cars worth are supposed to arrive from Overseas NOW, NB only new frames .

VLP really need to get some URGENCY into managing this issue .
kuldalai
At least it would solve much of the problem and upgrade the SG cars as well - all in one hit.
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
There must be a backlog of issues with N sets at the moment.

The 5:52 Marshall to SCS which is normally VN set has been replaced the last two days with a 3 car H set and this mornings 6:09 South Geelong to SCS which is normally a FN set was cancelled due to a train fault.

Also todays Warrnambool services are running with reduced capacity due to a train fault.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
I find it difficult to see the inordinate delay in sourcing replacement bogies for the Z cars. Another of the so called 'advantages' of broad gauge I suppose.

Are there not SG bogies relatively readily available that could go under the SG N cars to allow the cascading of their bogies for BG Z cars?
"YM-Mundrabilla"


I second this. Is it really impossible to find, import or build/rebuild bogies in the 21st century? Also, if the Z car bogies are replaced, hopefully the H cars receive the same treatment. Any chance Vlocity bogies could be used, or are they too light? I haven't looked at the weight of the cars (IIRC Z cars are also heavier than N cars, and the rebuilt Harris cars were no featherweight either). Maybe they should go the whole hog and simply build Vlocity trailers for loco haulage. A re-geared 160 km/h loco dragging a Vlocity set ("V" cars?) would be interesting to see...

Going on a tangent here, a good number of broad gauge bogies were also cut up when the Hitachi cars were scrapped en masse - whether or not they would have been suitable under long-distance cars however is anyone's guess.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Kuldalai

You mentioned something about the N class locomotives - The N class locos need an upgrade of the technology in the cabs and drive train .

Can you elaborate on this?

Duncs

  SN7 Chief Commissioner

3VL03 delivery imminent, 3 VL04 testing about to start,  2VL 06 shopped for trailer insert,  2VL 07 not far behind.

SN 1 still at Gemco - N 464 back in service ex Exam. N 464 in exam ,  N458 SG harmonic test run soon.

SH sets progressing through door mods - 1 per week or so .
  richter170 Locomotive Driver

3VL03 delivery imminent, 3 VL04 testing about to start,  2VL 06 shopped for trailer insert,  2VL 07 not far behind.

SN 1 still at Gemco - N 464 back in service ex Exam. N 464 in exam ,  N458 SG harmonic test run soon.

SH sets progressing through door mods - 1 per week or so .
SN7

N458 looks like it's running in service tonight. Still a massive shortage of N Sets and Z cars.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Having followed the developments and changes in V/Lines rollingstock fleet for a number of years, the severe shortage and availability of N sets and Z carriages has its roots going back to the period EDI Downer lost the overall maintenance contract for all of its entire fleet with that going to Bombardier and EDI effectively being a sub-contractor for the locomotives and the heavy repair and heavy maintenance of passenger cars.

That splitting of the maintenance function means that V/Line management are now not 1 step removed from their oversight of the carriage fleet and locos but effectively 2 steps.  There is also the split between light maintenance and heavy maintenance and that interface appears to have gaps in it.

In addition there have been the budget cuts of the previous Government that have reduced not only actual maintenance but also seen key staff from the V/Line engineering area also leave.  Some of those lost resources had extensive experience with the N, Z and H class fleet.

As far as reduced budget, it is possible at anytime to get budgets changed and I would have thought V/line should be able to present a sound business case for increasing the maintenance budget given that locomotive hauled cars are going to be around to about 2022/2023.

Even with this background which is not a good situation to be in there is still nonetheless a requirement for management to push their contractors hard to extract the performance and results needed and the contracts Bombardier/EDI Downer must be profitable otherwise they simply would not be prepared to keep going with them.

The actual condition of the fleet is also totally unacceptable.   Friends last weekend travelled by V’Locity to Traralgon 1 way and returned by N set the other.  The N set was filthy, it was graffitied internally, furnishings etc were in poor condition and the overall impression left was that nobody cared.

I also get a sense that the current administration has a commuter focus and really doesn’t care about longer distance services overlooking of course that the locomotive hauled sets carry thousands of daily commuters as they make their InterCity journies.

As indicated earlier in this thread the time taken to source bogie frames for the Z cars of now almost 3 years is another symptom of resourcing, morale and cultural issues within the administration.   There were to my understanding 4 options available to source new bogie frames for these cars.   In the meantime both service capacity and quality has heavily impacted on customers.

There is sufficient competition within Victoria for V/Line to get a very good deal for its loco and passenger car maintenance.   Yes its V’Locity fleet is locked into Bombardier as part of the build and maintain arrangements but it could easily excise the rest with not that much difficulty.   The locos and passenger car fleet is still a very substantial component and has sufficient volume and value for others to bid for.   I’d also be pointing a finger at Bombardier and EDI and say listen lift your game we need new fleet for expansion plus at some point for replacement.   We’ll be judging your current performance when making choices going forward.

Strong focused contract management is very much needed because even the V’Locity fleet performance and presentation is pretty ordinary for the mega millions invested in acquisition and subsequent maintenance.  To give you an example a 6 car V’Locity set undertaking a round trip from SX to Bendigo of 326km has an operating cost for fuel and maintenance only (no crew or track access fees) of $4,500.  That 6 car set also had a capital cost approaching $35 million.    I’m not aware of the split between fuel and maintenance but even so if you use those rates and apply that to all the trip kilometres undertaken by V’Locity’s over 1 year it is a very substantial figure that the maintainer receives.

Going back to the loco hauled fleet, whilst it is old, these are nonetheless simple, robust vehicles to maintain.   In the scheme of things getting reasonable reliability out of locomotive hauled coaches being maintained under a preventative maintenance regime is nowhere near as expensive or complex compared to diesel multiple units.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Kuldalai

You mentioned something about the N class locomotives - The N class locos need an upgrade of the technology in the cabs and drive train .

Can you elaborate on this?

Duncs

Duncs
The N class locos arrived in the early 1990's and there have been considerable advances in control technologies and  logging etc.  They are overdue for a half life re-fit and upgrade especially from the electrics and  control technology aspects .
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Kuldalai

You mentioned something about the N class locomotives - The N class locos need an upgrade of the technology in the cabs and drive train .

Can you elaborate on this?

Duncs

The N class locos arrived in the early 1990's and there have been considerable advances in control technologies and  logging etc.  They are overdue for a half life re-fit and upgrade especially from the electrics and  control technology aspects .
kuldalai
Thanks

Does that mean their power output will be increased in some way?
  richter170 Locomotive Driver

Tomorrow - 07/10

3VL03 to be delivered tomorrow afternoon with 3VL46 on the back after repairs at Bombardier.

3VL04 further testing at Pakenham/Bunyip section until Thursday then delivery.

2VL07 last run today as a two car, to be transported to Bombardier tomorrow morning for conversion to a three car and refurbishment.
  I'm Barely Online Locomotive Fireman

2VL07 last run today as a two car, to be transported to Bombardier tomorrow morning for conversion to a three car and refurbishment.
richter170

Not long till the last 2 car set runs now

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.