Sinking of the Perth Station

 
  62440 Chief Commissioner

The only connection between the systems is in Perth Yard. Using the above, the existing link is broken. Presumably new crossovers are included in the design.
WW

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  Southwest Locomotive Fireman

Thanks Ex-raildog! Sounds interesting, it's about time it was made easier to reach the Midland/Fremantle platforms from the West.  It’s a shame about losing the footbridge though, I recon it adds character. Where did you get all that information from?
  dw54 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Devonport, Tas
Speaking to someone inside the PTA the other day, it will probably be about Feb or March next year before any serious work is begun. Something to do with the fact they are still finalising some of the tunnel design in term of new regulations required for tunnels.
"Wallip"


Ok Ladies and Gents..here is the gos on how the construction will work. Stage 1: Early March 2010
Stage 2: Completion of new underpass (south).
Stage 3: Slew the turnback to form Midland down. Midland line will use platform 7 (east). Platform 9 becomes non-operational. The 827 crossover will be removed. Construction of northern section of underpass to platform 9, 10 and Roe Street.

Stage 4: Reinstate turnback. Commission 818,819 (east) crossovers and 828 (east) points. Platforms 9 & 10 commissioned. Midland line services off platform 9 & 10. Complete underpass link to Perth Underground.

Stage 5: Fremantle mains slewed onto new alignment at Sutherland Street. New tunnel commissioned and Midland to Fremantle services restored. Armadale services terminate in Perth. Complete dive structur and west end of platform 6.

Stage 6: Final commissioning. Refurbish platforms 2,4 & 5.

Due for completion mid to late 2014.

Hope that helps you all  Very Happy
"Ex-raildog"


You've lost me - where did Platform 10 come in - is that the old Platform 5 (before SSR sub-surface platforms)?

Also, all these references to crossovers and points. Where can I access the data?

A series of diagrams would be great, shipmate ... if you can.

Cheers

David
  Bulbous Assistant Commissioner

David,

Platform 10 is going through on the back side of the existing Midland platform (No 9), along through the grass area between Roe Street and platform 9......

i think i had a diagram around somewhere of the new cross-overs going in, one was underneath the multistory carpark and Beaufort Street bridge, the other is on the west end of the station as the new track heads into the dive..... Smile
  dw54 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Devonport, Tas
David,

Platform 10 is going through on the back side of the existing Midland platform (No 9), along through the grass area between Roe Street and platform 9......

i think i had a diagram around somewhere of the new cross-overs going in, one was underneath the multistory carpark and Beaufort Street bridge, the other is on the west end of the station as the new track heads into the dive..... Smile
"Bulbous"


OK, so Platforms 9 & 10 become an island.

What happens to Platform 6 (West - former 5, now probably 12)?

As I said, a track, platform and concourse diagram would really be nice to try and get a handle on all this.

And - the tunnel - where is that going.

What happens to the NSR-SSR route?

Where do they interchange with the W-E-SE routes?

Cheers

David
  dw54 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Devonport, Tas
I've been Googling to try and find info online about the sinking railway plan. No joy so far. Just an EPRA section on their "Link" project which is the consequence of the sinking project.

Does anyone have some suggested URLs?

Cheers

David
  Bulbous Assistant Commissioner

David,

this info comes right from the master plan, since we have a four metre long copy in the head office.......  Laughing

The tunnel itself is not very long at all, and the cover begins at around the intersection of William and Roe Streets. The tunnel then only runs to level with the end of the NSR/SSR tunnel, and then rises alongside it. The existing cross overs at ground level will continue to be used, and the only difference will be the western cross over on the Freo line will be on the rise out of the tunnel, instead of at ground level.....

hope that makes a little sense, just helping to convey the ridiculously short nature of the tunnel itself......  Laughing

Matt
  wn514 Chief Commissioner

Location: at a skyhooks concert living in the 70's
The title should really be renamed. The station isnt going to be sunk, just the rail lines west of Perth station.
"3981"
come up with one then mate ExclamationExclamationExclamation
  3981 Assistant Commissioner

The title should really be renamed. The station isnt going to be sunk, just the rail lines west of Perth station.
"3981"
come up with one then mate ExclamationExclamationExclamation
"wn514"


I said that because more than once in this thread people have asked how they are going to sink the station when it isn't getting sunk at all.

Wasn't having a go and I don't really care about the title but for the people that don't know whats going on, it gives them the wrong idea.
  dw54 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Devonport, Tas
David,

this info comes right from the master plan, since we have a four metre long copy in the head office.......  Laughing

The tunnel itself is not very long at all, and the cover begins at around the intersection of William and Roe Streets. The tunnel then only runs to level with the end of the NSR/SSR tunnel, and then rises alongside it. The existing cross overs at ground level will continue to be used, and the only difference will be the western cross over on the Freo line will be on the rise out of the tunnel, instead of at ground level.....

hope that makes a little sense, just helping to convey the ridiculously short nature of the tunnel itself......  Laughing

Matt
"Bulbous"


Thanks Matt, I think I am sorta getting the picture.

So, let me ask, the west end of Platform 6, will that become Platform 12? Also, on completion, will Armadale trains be able to extend through to West Leederville, Daglish turnback siding and Showgrounds, and return through, should the PTA so wish?

Can you confirm that I got it right that Platforms 9 & 10 become an island platform? If so, will they have a turnback siding (and perhaps some stabling) available under and just west of the Horseshoe Bridge (ie east of the western property line of William St at the Roe St intersection - where the "podium" for the commercial development appears to begin).

Cheers

David
  dw54 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Devonport, Tas
Also Matt, are you in a position to put ideas into the Master Plan?

If so, can I suggest that Perth Rail Station and Bus Station become "Perth CENTRAL" (much less a mouthful than "Wellington St Bus Station"); and that rail platforms be renumbered either:

OPTION I

A. That platform 9 be renumbered 10 - then the Midland/Fremantle island becomes platforms 10 & 11.

B. That old Platform 1 becomes 12.

C. That the main island then becomes:
SE face: 6 NE face: 7 NW face: 8 SW face: 9

or OPTION II

A. Relabel the Subsurface Platforms A & B
B. Restore original numbering:
1. Special Services running west out of Perth Central Station.
2. Armadale
3. Thornlie
4. Australind
5. Main Island SW face:
6. As is - Peak services to Armadale
7. As is -
8. As is - Special Services,
9. As is - services to Fremantle
10. Midland services, new face creating 9&10 island

In option II, all platforms are numbered in a reasonably straightforward way. The only oddity is 6 & 7, where the platforms were numbered anti-clockwise and this is restored. Platform uses in  are my thoughts on possible uses of the platforms.

Cheers

David
  Bulbous Assistant Commissioner

Okay, this is an image i posted on another site, makes it a bit easier to figure out the changes being proposed:

http://www.perthstreetfighters.com/Perth%20Rail%20Changes.JPG

the black is existing tracks, i am not too sure about platform numbers or anything though, so you will have to figure it all out the best you can!

The grey is the existing Freo line, which will be moved to the red location when the dive and tunnel is done.

the green is the Mandurah line underground, and the blue is the above ground portion. The crossovers on the west side of the station are being reversed in direction (red=new and grey=existing to be removed).

Hope this helps, unless i can get an electronic copy direct from work, this is the best i can do!  Laughing
  dw54 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Devonport, Tas
Okay, this is an image i posted on another site, makes it a bit easier to figure out the changes being proposed:

http://www.perthstreetfighters.com/Perth%20Rail%20Changes.JPG

the black is existing tracks, i am not too sure about platform numbers or anything though, so you will have to figure it all out the best you can!

The grey is the existing Freo line, which will be moved to the red location when the dive and tunnel is done.

the green is the Mandurah line underground, and the blue is the above ground portion. The crossovers on the west side of the station are being reversed in direction (red=new and grey=existing to be removed).

Hope this helps, unless i can get an electronic copy direct from work, this is the best i can do!  Laughing
"Bulbous"

Thanks again, Matt

You did mention that the old Platform 1 was to become the new 11, and be connected to the Fremantle line. That doesn't appear to be covered in the diagram at the URL you gave.

It also seems that the Fremantle trains remain on 7 and 8, and the Midland trains use either 9 or the new 10.

Cheers

David
  Bulbous Assistant Commissioner

I am not sure i mentioned which platforms were for which trains, but i believe the extra platform number 10 is to take into account the things like football specials, and interestingly the design is to allow the extra trains from the airport line and Ellenbrook line to be taken into account. This information was from an engineer involved with the preliminary design, as well as the fact he is currently working on the preliminary designs for the airport line.

The idea is for the four northern most platforms to be available to the Midland/Freo/Airport/Ellenbrook mess of trains that is to be expected. How the trains will actually utilise each platform on a usual day is unknown to me though.

As i find more information out, i will pass it through.

Very Happy
  wn514 Chief Commissioner

Location: at a skyhooks concert living in the 70's
The title should really be renamed. The station isnt going to be sunk, just the rail lines west of Perth station.
"3981"
come up with one then mate ExclamationExclamationExclamation
"wn514"


I said that because more than once in this thread people have asked how they are going to sink the station when it isn't getting sunk at all.

Wasn't having a go and I don't really care about the title but for the people that don't know whats going on, it gives them the wrong idea.
"3981"
i do agree with you mate the thread is titled wrong, when i first read the title i thought they were having trouble with water or something under the station and it was literally sinking.
  Northmetro Junior Train Controller

The platform layout seems to make sense, but would expect to see some more crossovers to allow turnback in either direction. Of the  proposed Freo-Midland platforms, the obvious plan would be to have the outer two platforms for through services and the inner platforms able to accommodate terminating/reversing trains.

There will be an excess of trains to/from the west when running Showgrounds & football specials, but once extra routes are added to the east there will be more trains that way.
  Mouse Chief Train Controller

Location:
It's starting!


Forward works (October 2010 – July 2011)

The first major change is closing Platforms 6 and 7 for upgrades from late October until mid-2011. During this time Fremantle Line services will move from Platform 7 to Platform 8. Armadale C# services, which currently depart from Platform 6, will also be relocated towards the Western Concourse, next to Platform 8.

While closed there will be no access to Platform 6 and 7 from the Eastern Concourse. However, an accessible walkway at the western end of Perth Train Station and the wooden footbridge near the Horseshoe Bridge will still be in place, to provide access to the relocated Fremantle and Armadale services.

http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/AccessibleServices/PerthCityLinkProject/tabid/472/Default.aspx

Sorry if this has already mentioned, but this seems the logical place to put it.[/quote]
  Veyron407 Junior Train Controller

What will happen with the Australind, being a diesel?
  WAGR_trains Assistant Commissioner

A big disater waiting to happen?, and the last wooden footbridge (?) in the undercover area next to the horseshoe bridge is going to be demolished as well
  Bulbous Assistant Commissioner

The Australind platform does not get touched in the redesign of the platforms or tracks, and will operate throughout......... the actual station does not go underground, in case you were thinking that - the dives begin just before the west ends of platforms 6, 7 and 9 (and the soon-to-be-constructed 10), and the tracks will be underground at the intersection of William and Roe Streets....... they will then rise again alongside the Clarkson line rise, with the tops of the tunnels being extended to level with Lake Street........

The wooden footbridge is being dismantled - not demolished - and I believe has been promised to one group, but not sure who - it has been some time since I was involved in the tendering operation for this work.......

As for being a disaster, the staging of the works has undergone many revisions - all to allow the same number of services currently to operate throughout the works....... the only changes during the works will be platform changes - such as the Fremantle services operating from platforms 4 (?) and 5 during the tunnel works to the west of the station, or the shorter platforms during the construction of the underground connection at the west end of the platforms.......
  Ade Train Controller

Whats the diff between Armadale and Armadale C # ?
  Mike_in_the_west Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth, WA
Armadale = all stations
Armadale C = all stations to Claisebrook, then express to Cannington stopping only at Oats St.
  Veyron407 Junior Train Controller

The Australind platform does not get touched in the redesign of the platforms or tracks, and will operate throughout......... the actual station does not go underground, in case you were thinking that - the dives begin just before the west ends of platforms 6, 7 and 9 (and the soon-to-be-constructed 10), and the tracks will be underground at the intersection of William and Roe Streets....... they will then rise again alongside the Clarkson line rise, with the tops of the tunnels being extended to level with Lake Street........

The wooden footbridge is being dismantled - not demolished - and I believe has been promised to one group, but not sure who - it has been some time since I was involved in the tendering operation for this work.......

As for being a disaster, the staging of the works has undergone many revisions - all to allow the same number of services currently to operate throughout the works....... the only changes during the works will be platform changes - such as the Fremantle services operating from platforms 4 (?) and 5 during the tunnel works to the west of the station, or the shorter platforms during the construction of the underground connection at the west end of the platforms.......
"Bulbous"


Ah. Thanks for that.
  Ade Train Controller

Armadale = all stations
Armadale C = all stations to Claisebrook, then express to Cannington stopping only at Oats St.
"Mike_in_the_west"


Cheers. Wouldn't it make more sense to allow the C # Armadale services to remain on platform 5 and move the allstops services to platform 6?

The armadale C # gets used far more often so it will confuse less people by having the service the way it is now.
  NR29 Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth Australia
Armadale All Stops only runs on Sunday to help with Thornlie service between perth and cannington keeping the frequcey at 15mins

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