NE SG line, post gauge conversion

 
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I have started this to have a place for the amount of discussion around now on the future of this line.

Woodford



Of the  aproximately 204 kilometers of the old BG to the Murray river 103 kilometers of dual SG track are now in operation. Of the 204 kilometers the route is now aprox 1.5 kilometers shorter due the the Wodonga bypass

The sections in operation are from 99.7km (just north of Highst lvl crossing Seymour) to 196.9km (Wang side of Witt st lvl crossing Benalla) and from aprox 297.5Km (near Sheathers rd Wodonga) to the murray river, this would be around the 302.5 to 303Km.

Traffic has been using the Southern section from latish November, the XPT ran its first trip on the  West line the evening of the 30th of November.

Woodford

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  woodford Chief Commissioner

Now the maximum speed limit on the line is 130kph, so here is some thoughts for a timetable based on this maximum speed. This is from a very complex mathematical simulation I did some time  back.

The first column of figures is the mid morning down train from the October 2006 time table.
The second column is the time projected by the simulation.
Southern cross to Seymour has not been worked out mainly as the speed limits on this section will largely be unaltered due to the grades and curves.


Seymour--------13:20--------------13:20
Avenel-----------13:31-------------13:30
Euroa------------13:52--------------13:49
Violet Town-----14:16--------------13:59
Benalla-----------14:34-------------14:13
Wangarratta-----14:58-------------14:34
Springhurst------15:14-------------14:46
Chiltern-----------15:24-------------14:54
Wodonga--------15:42--------------15:08
Albury------------15:52--------------15:16


The table shows 36 minutes have been knocked off the previous time. Of this 14 minutes comes from not having the cross at the loop south of Violet Town. The average speed for the 130kph service is around 100kph, the average speed of the 2006 service if you take out the time allowed for the cross is around 85kph with a cruising speed around 114kph. This shows that these times for the 130kph service are in the acheivable range. There has been no time built into the time table for late running, this was done as an analsys of the old time table showed that if you took out the time for the cross it had no time built in except for some minutes at Seymour.


Woodford
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

In reality the time likely to be saved by 130 kmh running North of Seymour (20 mins approx) will be swallowed up by running into Southern Cross via the longer and slower route via Albion . So expect end to end VLP loco hauled sg pass times to be similar to the old VLP bg pass times via the Essendon route .
  412M Assistant Commissioner

No matter what happens south of Seymour with the times, it will be interesting to try getting pictures of SG and BG Ns passing each other south of Seymour.
  Rodo Chief Commissioner

Location: Southern Riverina
The SG route from Broadmeadows into SC. terminal should be able to give at least similar timings to the shorter route via Essendon, as there are no suburban trains in the way. Of course the track condition is being improved there, I presume.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Is there any reason other than cost that this project was not done all the way to Cragieburn? Is there any need for BG beyond the spark termination at Cragieburn? (I think its safe to assume there will be no spark termination beyond Cragieburn for a long long time due to the urban growth boundary).

As I understand it there is still a single BG track beyond Seymour. Is this still needed?

If all pass trains beyond Cragieburn were SG this would mean no more V/Lines running down through the traditional Broadmeadows/Essendon alignment. Surely this is a good thing?
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Is there any reason other than cost that this project was not done all the way to Cragieburn? Is there any need for BG beyond the spark termination at Cragieburn? (I think its safe to assume there will be no spark termination beyond Cragieburn for a long long time due to the urban growth boundary).

As I understand it there is still a single BG track beyond Seymour. Is this still needed?

If all pass trains beyond Cragieburn were SG this would mean no more V/Lines running down through the traditional Broadmeadows/Essendon alignment. Surely this is a good thing?
"Mr. Lane"


I believe as well as the Sheparton pass there is still a container service to Tocumwal which uses this line. As well since the RFR project there is some difficulty in providng enough paths for grain trains from the Echuca area. So during large crops these trains have been running via the Echuca Toolamba line. this line was redone some time back for this purpose.

A point to remember is the funds for NE project came from the Feds to improve the major freight path to Sydney. Regauging the sheppartom line would not have even been on the radar.

Woodford.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

I see. Thanks. I have no knowledge of this part of the state...let alone the train operations.

Looking at Wikipedia is seems to be more clear:

"Two 1,600 mm (5 ft 3 in) (broad gauge) tracks to Seymour with a single BG track continuing to Shepparton; as well as a single standard gauge track from Melbourne to Seymour with 2 tracks from Seymour to Albury."

So there is no BG between the Shepparton junction and Albury anymore?
  42101 Banned

Location: Banned
I see. Thanks. I have no knowledge of this part of the state...let alone the train operations.

Looking at Wikipedia is seems to be more clear:

"Two 1,600 mm (5 ft 3 in) (broad gauge) tracks to Seymour with a single BG track continuing to Shepparton; as well as a single standard gauge track from Melbourne to Seymour with 2 tracks from Seymour to Albury."

So there is no BG between the Shepparton junction and Albury anymore?
"Mr. Lane"


Lookie there even is a whole multi page thread about what happend.

http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11335280.htm
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I see. Thanks. I have no knowledge of this part of the state...let alone the train operations.

Looking at Wikipedia is seems to be more clear:

"Two 1,600 mm (5 ft 3 in) (broad gauge) tracks to Seymour with a single BG track continuing to Shepparton; as well as a single standard gauge track from Melbourne to Seymour with 2 tracks from Seymour to Albury."

So there is no BG between the Shepparton junction and Albury anymore?
"Mr. Lane"


That is correct, the track work to convert it to SG was completed August/september 2009.
See the NE to SG thread for full details.

Woodford
  woodford Chief Commissioner

I went down via the XPT to Southern Cross to see what the track was like.................

The train was late into Benalla arriving at around 0557 time passing Seymour platform 1 was 0645, at Broadmedows 0730, at SG line 0 kilometerpost(adjacent to North Melobourne station) 0749, Doors open platfrom 1 at 0753. Speed north of Seymour was between 121 and 125 kph, south of Seymour consistently 120 kph (it was almost exactly 30 seconds per kilometer on the stopwatch). Note the time was under 2 hours and the time from Broadmedows 23 minutes.
Comming into Benalla the train fooled everyone by comming into Platform 1 instead of platform 2.

Comming back the time from Southern Cross to Broadmedows was 30 minutes due to a freight the train past on the forward trip in passing lane 4 being on the Albion line. There were four 80kph  or slower speed restriction zones on the part of the trip back to Benalla.

The ride quailty was generaly good to first class, the best being around Donnybrook which was as smooth as silk. The West line was somewhat poorer than the East line and there was a small number of very short rough patches but on the whole the West line was OK. I did not site any holes appearing in the West line on the way down, mind you one must remember the train was doing 120kph +. I believe the West line is suffering from the first decent heavy fast traffic the line seen in a long time and just needs a lift and line after the line has settled in.
The ride on track south of Seymour was good to excellent.

The train staff said the track was vastly better than prior to the first service suspension.

An excelent train trip I may say,

Woodford
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting for the sky to fall, the seas to rise... and seeing a train on the SSFL!
...
The train staff said the track was vastly better than prior to the first service suspension.

An excelent train trip I may say,

Woodford
"woodford"


Good to hear...

Need to keep the mud holes in perspective – short term pain for hopefully a piece of infrastructure set up for long term viability.
  Operater Junior Train Controller

Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Hi Group,                      Tuesday Dec 21st, 10, 21:25 Hrs. M.S.T.


                Does anyone know, or have there been an Decisions yet as to what happens with the N.E. Line between Seymour and Melbourne. Can't
see any Economics to keep a two track main line between Seymour and Melbourne when in the Future that space will be needed to Double Track the
Standard Gauge Line down to Melbourne for Freights as well as Psgr Trains.
                Will be interested to see what Decisions get made in the next 18
Months or so.
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
have a listen to the podcast of today's Victorian contry hour. The agriculture minister said that long term it was the gov'ts position to transfer all Victorian freight lines to ARTC control and standardise them.

wether that includes the NE BG track i'm not sure, but you can bet it will be looked at.
  412M Assistant Commissioner

I just hope that does not happen. Most/all of ARTC's decisions in relation to signalling are based on NSW practice with Vic aspects, which does not work (NSW signals based on route, Vic signals being based on speed). This always ends up with moves being made to have restrictions on them that are far below what they should be, if there should be any at all.
  pollux1au Junior Train Controller

I just hope that does not happen. Most/all of ARTC's decisions in relation to signalling are based on NSW practice with Vic aspects, which does not work (NSW signals based on route, Vic signals being based on speed). This always ends up with moves being made to have restrictions on them that are far below what they should be, if there should be any at all.
 


It was this type of thinking that caused the gauge debacle that we have had to live with since the beginning of railways in this country.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Hi Group,                      Tuesday Dec 21st, 10, 21:25 Hrs. M.S.T.


                Does anyone know, or have there been an Decisions yet as to what happens with the N.E. Line between Seymour and Melbourne. Can't
see any Economics to keep a two track main line between Seymour and Melbourne when in the Future that space will be needed to Double Track the
Standard Gauge Line down to Melbourne for Freights as well as Psgr Trains.
                Will be interested to see what Decisions get made in the next 18
Months or so.
"Operater"


ARTC plan Is to progressively duplicate the Tottenham - Seymour standard gauge on an as needed basis (longer passing lanes etc)

The V/Line network will have nothing to do with these plans
  Inland_Sailor Junior Train Controller

Reported today on ABC Goulburn Murray News, V/Line rail services are on track for June return.

Posted February 1, 2011 10:23:00

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/01/3126576.htm?site=goulburnmurray&section=news&date=%28none%29


"The Victorian Government is hoping to reintroduce V/Line train services to Wodonga by June.

Passenger services were replaced by V/Line buses more than two years ago, while the track was upgraded.

Before the Liberal Party was elected to government last November, it accused the former Labor government of failing the public because of delays in returning train services.

The Liberal Member for Benambra, Bill Tilley, says there is still some work to do on rolling stock under engines and carriages.

"We are now negotiating and getting proper time slotting and getting our passenger rail returned," he said.

"We're looking at a timetable ... at this stage we're looking towards return of passenger services in June. That's optimistic, we're working particularly hard that they'll return in June but the driver training, confidently speaking, will return sometime in March."

Will will have to wait and see!!!!
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Inland_Sailor said............

"Will will have to wait and see!!!!"

Yes,............................. But at least (the report said) the people holding the purse strings are stirring the pot (which can only be good news).

One of the problems I have found here is no one in a position to know is saying anything, which of course means no (reliable) info.

Woodford
  Ballast_Plough Chief Commissioner

Location: Lilydale, Vic
Based on the premise that 5 N Sets will be re-gauged, they obviously need to be taken out of current service prior.

Are they currently surplus (due to Albury services currently withdrawn) or have they been utilised elsewhere in the network? If so, are the plans on track to replace those N sets so that they can be ready for June running to Albury?
  tranzitjim Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
One of those N sets are stranded in Swan Hill due to the floods. They would need to get that set back from there first.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Based on the premise that 5 N Sets will be re-gauged, they obviously need to be taken out of current service prior.

Are they currently surplus (due to Albury services currently withdrawn) or have they been utilised elsewhere in the network? If so, are the plans on track to replace those N sets so that they can be ready for June running to Albury?
"Ballast_Plough"


Out of left field, does anyone forsee an opportunity for Vline to provide a SG passneger service between Melbourne and the SA border using some additional SG sets?

--Bill
  R711 Train Controller

Location: Warrnambool
There isnt really enough population to make it work considering the distance
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
There isnt really enough population to make it work considering the distance
"R711"


R711, with the combined population of Stawell, Horsham and Dimboola exceeding 20,000, you may well be in error.

Mike.
  R711 Train Controller

Location: Warrnambool
Yea but with the time and distance it isn't likely to happen

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