Noarlunga Line Shutdown

 
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Yes it is and where on the DPTI site does it say its near completion? Because as far as I can tell they look like they are only about a third of the way through signalling works
Milkomeda
IN the article about the Victoria Street crossing re-opening.  "Very close to completion" they say; I knew that would stir a few people up on here...

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  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
Looking at Milkomedia's picture above. and from personal observation a day or so ago, I think that it would be possible to extend the platforms at Oaklands by the length of the eastern access ramps with narrow but adequate pier and beam reinforced concrete construction.

Whether this would be enough to accommodate a double electric consist, I do not know. Other members may like to comment.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Extending to the length of the current ramps at both ends could be just long enough to fit two electric units, an extension from 120m to 152m being necessary for that. Even better than piers and beams would be the use of prefab concrete box sections just dropped into place.

The ramps would need to be relocated behind the platform for the north-eastern and south-western corners, in order to make the platform wide enough that people using mobility aids to safely get into position to use the first door - unless of course the EMUs will have push-button deployed ramps at all doors instead of the driver being required to get out and use a manual ramp.

Will it be worth it though, especially with the inevitable grade separation looming? There are other stations on the line that will also require the use of SDO (Selective Door Opening) to leave the doors locked on the last one or two cars as well, so they may as well do it at Oaklands too. I'm talking about Mile End (fits five cars only), the shortened platform at Marion (five only), Warradale (five only), Hove (four only) and Marino Rocks for Adelaide-bound trains (five only). Using SDO will allow double EMU consists to stop at those stations with passengers in the last car (last two at Oaklands and Hove) walking through the open connections towards the front of the second unit to where there are unlocked doors available.

Using UDS (Unit Deselect) instead of SDO would be the worst outcome, that would leave the whole second unit locked and half the passengers held captive even though only one or two cars of the second unit are off the end of the platform. To make it work with UDS being used at those stations would require the use of tedious announcements at stations which would get lost among all the other audio graffiti and would not get the job done if a service is unexpectedly a double consist thanks to some disruption

You may laugh at the possibility of double consists serving some of those stations, but you should remember that the extra trains running according to required capacity (i.e. not on a regular timetable) after big cricket matches with crowds of 20k to 30k stopped at all stations. It would be safe to assume that the same will happen with all double consists for the expanded Adelaide Oval hosting Australia home matches, Adelaide Strikers T20 home matches, the India v Pakistan match of the 2015 World Cup match and of course every AFL home game.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Extending to the length of the current ramps at both ends could be just long enough to fit two electric units, an extension from 120m to 152m being necessary for that. Even better than piers and beams would be the use of prefab concrete box sections just dropped into place.
justapassenger

By my calculations for a double A-City set to have its doors all opening onto a platform the platform would not have to be any longer than 140m as there is over 6.5m from the coupler to the first door. This would mean that the driver would have to be careful to stop in the right place.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Cantilever Arms are now being installed onto the portal structures in the Adelaide Rail Yard.

and

From personal observation in peak periods when the trains were running a 3 car consist was enough to carry enough passengers in one service. The 5:10 express train to Noarlunga for example which previously used 3 2000 railcars I found usually had enough room to seat almost everyone.

Im guessing the governments plan was to always have a maximum consist of 3 cars on this line in one service when electric trains go into service but just have an increased frequency to make up for the lack of cars in one service and to help cater the future population of the line. If the green light is ever given in the future for a line extension to Aldinga Beach then this line would very likely be more populated and more used than the Gawler Line so its not something the government has to worry about right now IMO but in the future probably.
  witsend Chief Commissioner

Location: Front RH Seat of a School Bus
The former 5:18 express to Woodlands then all stops to Noarlunga, was a 4 car 2000 set. Hopefully, they will fit in the 3 car 4000.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
The former 5:18 express to Woodlands then all stops to Noarlunga, was a 4 car 2000 set. Hopefully, they will fit in the 3 car 4000.
witsend
It I remember that was a 6 car 2000 set many years ago, not that certain platforms would fit that long of a train. It some cases they struggled to park it in the right place for all the doors to be on the platform.

Replace it with two separate 4000 trains, run one express to say Hallett Cove and leave the other as is. Plenty of extra trains to run such a service.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I prefer the idea of dropping a few prefab modules at the ends of the platforms.

All over Melbourne you can see where they did that in the 1970's when they bought in the 6-carriage Hitachis.  Cheap but effective, especially if there's only a few stations where it needs to be done.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

By my calculations for a double A-City set to have its doors all opening onto a platform the platform would not have to be any longer than 140m as there is over 6.5m from the coupler to the first door. This would mean that the driver would have to be careful to stop in the right place.
"nm39"
Make that about 146 metres then, as the driver's door at the front needs to be on the platform as well.

I wouldn't be so keen on removing all the margin though, not for our system where we only have driver only operation with no guards and (at most) conductors who only handle customer service. If there was a guard who could move to the rear cab on the approach to stations with tight platform lengths and be ready to inhibit the door release I would be closer to being comfortable with such tight-fitting platform lengths. I wouldn't be keen for this added pressure on the train drivers either, it would be detrimental for timetable performance and (far worse) possibly even leave them too tightly wound to respond well in a safety incident where it's usually better to have a driver relaxed and confident in their performance.

Better to just use SDO and leave some margin for error. Having walk-through access between the cars in each permanently coupled unit should make it easy for passengers in the 6th car (and the 5th at Mile End, Hove and Oaklands) to walk forward and exit from the last car fully on the platform.

Simply refusing to run doubled up units would be to admit defeat and refuse to tackle the problem properly. Plus, if the miraculous happens and "build it and they will come" actually works for the first time in the history of South Australian transport then double consists will be needed in the peaks on a daily basis as well as after Adelaide Oval events - we'll have the EMU fleet to handle higher frequencies instead of higher capacity, but the track occupancy will be impossible to handle.
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
I see that new black fencing is being installed between Ascot Park and Woodlands.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Make that about 146 metres then, as the driver's door at the front needs to be on the platform as well.

I wouldn't be so keen on removing all the margin though, not for our system where we only have driver only operation with no guards and (at most) conductors who only handle customer service. If there was a guard who could move to the rear cab on the approach to stations with tight platform lengths and be ready to inhibit the door release I would be closer to being comfortable with such tight-fitting platform lengths. I wouldn't be keen for this added pressure on the train drivers either, it would be detrimental for timetable performance and (far worse) possibly even leave them too tightly wound to respond well in a safety incident where it's usually better to have a driver relaxed and confident in their performance.

Better to just use SDO and leave some margin for error. Having walk-through access between the cars in each permanently coupled unit should make it easy for passengers in the 6th car (and the 5th at Mile End, Hove and Oaklands) to walk forward and exit from the last car fully on the platform.

Simply refusing to run doubled up units would be to admit defeat and refuse to tackle the problem properly. Plus, if the miraculous happens and "build it and they will come" actually works for the first time in the history of South Australian transport then double consists will be needed in the peaks on a daily basis as well as after Adelaide Oval events - we'll have the EMU fleet to handle higher frequencies instead of higher capacity, but the track occupancy will be impossible to handle.
justapassenger
If it is so easy for people to walk forward in the last railcar to alight then it should be no problem for the driver to move through the masses. However, at this time I don't think that the capacity of 540 pax would be reached for a few years yet and then a band-aid fix will happen:oops:
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

However, at this time I don't think that the capacity of 540 pax would be reached for a few years yet and then a band-aid fix will happen:oops:
"nm39"
I think you're wrong on three counts.

1. Even when extra trains were put on for crowds leaving a domestic T20 cricket matches a couple of seasons ago, all three cars were crush loaded. That was despite the crowd only being about 18,000 due to construction work at Adelaide Oval. Now imagine the difference it will make having an extra 32,000 patrons leaving a full house with just about all of them using public transport due to there being less parking even remotely convenient to Adelaide Oval than there was a couple of years ago.

2. We have no idea if there is any factual basis to the "standing capacity of 300" claim made by Bombardier - has a crowd of 540 adults actually put this to the test yet? There could well be just as much truth in that as there was to the promises that delivery would start in early 2013 (which didn't happen) and then they were definitely coming in April (which didn't happen) and then in June (which didn't happen) then in July (which finally happened at the end of the month) with a new car coming each week after that (which hasn't happened). At this point my response to a Bombardier press release stating the sky is blue would be to look out the window!

3. Four car trains were well-loaded on Noarlunga peak services even when they were running on elderly DMUs. With the signalling blocks being all more or less the same size as before and no fourth aspect there won't be much spare capacity to increase the number of services (to make up for running shorter trains) before you end up with a saturated line.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Crews working on contact wire and carrier wire on up side of Hove. This means wiring almost in place from Brighton to just on down side of Warradale. Very little hardware installed in next section towards Adelaide which includes Oaklands.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Simply refusing to run doubled up units would be to admit defeat and refuse to tackle the problem properly. Plus, if the miraculous happens and "build it and they will come" actually works for the first time in the history of South Australian transport then double consists will be needed in the peaks on a daily basis as well as after Adelaide Oval events...
justapassenger
Further still there would have been no point in ordering units constructed the way they are - if four car consists was their preferred maximum length then they should have gone for 2 car units instead of 3's.  

On the topic of 'build it and they will come'... I do live in hope that it will happen that way but it may take some years before the numbers really take off.  The secret will be frequencies of service, especially at the times when it was traditionally very difficult to plan your time around a train trip (ie after 7pm and on weekends); that way it's not such a catastrophe when you miss one.

Crews working on contact wire and carrier wire on up side of Hove. This means wiring almost in place from Brighton to just on down side of Warradale. Very little hardware installed in next section towards Adelaide which includes Oaklands.
steam4ian
Thank-you for this progress report, Ian.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

There is currently talks within the DPTI about the line possibly reopening earlier than anticipated but in order to accomplish this there would only be partial services on the line (This I assume would be to not cause interference for electrification works) this needs to be run through the safety regulator first if its given the all clear we may just see partial train services operating in early to mid November

Im guessing its the governments way limiting the damage control so people will still have to pay for fare now even if there are only partial train services
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Judging by the "success" of meetings held with local people and Tom K and Rod Hook an early or partial opening may be considered.

It seems Laing O'Rourke operate at night which means trains could run during the day from normal first train to about 7:00 pm to handle the peak and daytime. The Bustitues would operate for the evenings and perhaps weekends.

Some of the track still looks like it needs the tamper over it but that only requires days not months. The resignalling is a hold up because they seem to have completely ditched the old system. I am sure they would make faster progress with a few test trains running.

If they are shutting down in January to work on ARS (as suggested by some) they had better give the public some sweeteners.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
........

If they are shutting down in January to work on ARS (as suggested by some) they had better give the public some sweeteners.
steam4ian
Presumably it will be the last major shut-down required but the Adelaide public must be getting pretty weary of the whole thing (as per comments over the last few pages).  The decision to re-do the entire signalling system appears to have been a later decision, maybe prompted by the issues with sighting and the catenary poles?  At least you can see the end of the shut-down coming now -

Here in Victoria the Regional Fast Rail works are just as frustrating; they were supposed to shut down over the (just finished) school holidays but instead it's 3-12 October (they mustn't have been ready in time).  Apparently this project is running ahead of schedule at least and the trains do operate some of the time.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Here in Victoria the Regional Fast Rail works are just as frustrating; they were supposed to shut down over the (just finished) school holidays but instead it's 3-12 October (they mustn't have been ready in time).  Apparently this project is running ahead of schedule at least and the trains do operate some of the time.
don_dunstan
Apparently they tried to avoid the Melbourne Show and AFL grand final.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Apparently they tried to avoid the Melbourne Show and AFL grand final.
"railblogger"
Particularly the Show, as the bus connection runs between Sunbury and Flemington Racecourse, but the Racecourse line is very busy with all the Show specials during that week.
  Halo Chief Train Controller

Last major shutdown, until two more lines need to be closed for eleven months each as  well?
  Halo Chief Train Controller

Last major shutdown, until two more lines need to be closed for eleven months each as  well?
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Last major shutdown, until two more lines need to be closed for eleven months each as  well?
Halo

Outer Harbor Line is probably the next line in the firing line for a long closure for the grade separation at the Bowden crossing
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Outer Harbor Line is probably the next line in the firing line for a long closure for the grade separation at the Bowden crossing
"Milkomeda"

The Bowden grade seperation will only mean a partial closure of the Outer Harbor line.
Bustitution has proven to work well between the City and Woodville. And rail cars transit back to Dry Creek via the Rosewater loop.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

AIUI the shuttles to Dry Creek ran via the Gaol turnback and didn't use the Rosewater on the last shutdown. The link is now a "long siding" though it appears intact and Port Adelaide Junction has been relaid.
There are ways to achieve grade separation at Bowden without an 11 month shutdown and I hope these are investigated. There are two projects which are connected physically but not project wise. These are Torrens Junction grade separation and Bowden low level station which have to open at the same time.
If there is to be a massive shutdown, bear in mind the proposed South Road grade separation and new Croydon station which has to be a major shutdown.
Other big jobs include reconstruction of the Port River bridge and several station reconstructions.
We can hope these are all coordinated and not a series of shutdowns as elsewhere.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Apparently they tried to avoid the Melbourne Show and AFL grand final.
railblogger
Okay, thanks for that, wasn't sure what the explanation was given it's been strictly school holidays in the past.

I believe Rosewater loop has been out of commission since 2007 (as discussed on another thread) so it would need to be re-opened if they were going to shuttle trains between Dry Creek and the O/H line.  Woodville would seem to be the natural terminus for a bustitution.

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