Auscision Models Blog

 
  Oscar Train Controller

I found a few photos the other day on Weston Langford's site showing not only the green tint but maybe some clear replacements in the mix. Judging by the sunlight going through onto the inner window panes the variances seem obvious. They don't represent the actual colour of course, as the bluish hue or slightly washed out appearance in those 1963 film photos contrast significantly when trying to compare a model photo or having a carriage in your hand. But they're interesting to look at nonetheless.

These are cropped images, original links below.


Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License
Original artist - Weston Langford.
Cropped image - Link to original below
102683: Yass Junction Up Riverina Express 3828
[color=#006dac]www.westonlangford.com/images/photo/102683/

[/color]



Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License
Original artist - Weston Langford.
Cropped image - Link to original below
102684: Yass Junction Up Riverina Express 3828
[color=#006dac]www.westonlangford.com/images/photo/102684/

[/color]


There's also a few shots showing the name boards you were talking about a6et.  Not readily readable but distinguishable so far as you can see where they are.
https://www.westonlangford.com/images/photo/104990/
https://www.westonlangford.com/images/photo/103218/

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  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

One thing about how green was my valley or in this case how green are my windows is the constraints of making things in minature. A slight greenish tint in windows for instance might not be achievable without a lot of mucking about to get it, where as a standard green used for other things is easily got, so you use what is available and it might look wrong to you. It might be but unless they get the clear green plastic specially made up will go the price of the model to cover it. Getting it dead right also in the model is going to be hard to achieve anyway as everyone see's colours different and this includes who ever works out what the think is the right recipe for the green tinted windows.

One other thing is also fully prototype colours do not sit really well on a model 87 times smaller than the original prototype, you cannot really make colours 87 times different to the real thing it just will not work, you cannot really scale down colours to any great degree. You will find this out one day by getting some real paint samples for something and then painting you model one with it, it will not look right to you, I have seen it done and it was as I stated it just did not look right, but a similar colour a shade or two either way from that colour might look more correct and less overpowering colour wise.

Also some colours just do not look right on a model, yellow or gold is one such no matter what you do there it will nearly always look wrong, so in comes the art of compromise in cases like that, you know it looks wrong but Joe Blow your best friend and fellow modeller thinks it is the Bees knees. It can also depend on the base colour that some colours go over as well a yellow over a blue will tend to give the yellow a greenish type of tinge.

Yellow goes best over a white undercoat while other colours will go perfectly well over a gray undercoat.

But as I said we all see the colours differently and light can change a colour as well even on the prototype.
  Oscar Train Controller

Totally agree. I wanted to put something similar in my post but it got too long. I'll just add that it's similar to gloss, matt or satin finishes. I remember it being discussed ages ago how model manufacturers settle for something in the middle that'll satisfy the most. All the painted named trains maintained a gloss finish back in the day but put a gloss on these RUBs, or any others, I think it would be hard to achieve the same sheen.  My attempt ages ago on Bergs N carriages using Raileys gloss looked horrendous, as in too glossy, it just didn't scale well.  I definitely needed to experiment with thinners and other additives.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Totally agree. I wanted to put something similar in my post but it got too long. I'll just add that it's similar to gloss, matt or satin finishes. I remember it being discussed ages ago how model manufacturers settle for something in the middle that'll satisfy the most. All the painted named trains maintained a gloss finish back in the day but put a gloss on these RUBs, or any others, I think it would be hard to achieve the same sheen.  My attempt ages ago on Bergs N carriages using Raileys gloss looked horrendous, as in too glossy, it just didn't scale well.  I definitely needed to experiment with thinners and other additives.
Oscar
Much of this in regard to paints is the actual amount of gloss that used, full gloss while it worked on the 1:1 is far to much on models especially HO scale. The best medium is often Satin but that also can be too glossy on some colours.  Even in Steam days Air Conditioned carriages and sets as found in HUB/RUB sets likewise with the DEB sets & other DMU's that ran out of Sydney usually were kept very clean, with washes to start with and often if enough staff were available then they would be buff waxed.

At Eveleigh they had enough Cleaners/ Trainee Enginemen whose job it was to clean the engines going out of the depot, the usual treatment was with Black Oil even on the Green 38cl unless they were on specials where wax was used. At Enfield the same applied but whenever the Vintage train was to run with the 12 & 17cl they were waxed and polished using Picaniny floor wax, brought them up nicely.

As for the green tinted windows, a fellow modeller I know uses a thinned down black green colour, who tests the colour and sometimes adds a bit extra green to it before thinning it down, and then tests again on clear styrene, once he gets it to the shade he wants he wants he then keeps a bottle of it for future use.

Some of the window tints also looked pale, and a good enough colour is similar to some of the plastic wraps used for magazines and for newspapers that are home delivered and wrapped in that thin wrap. The colour looks right or close enough but I think it could be a cow of a job stretching it over the clear glazing.
  lkernan Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Auscision want to know what 48/830 number/colours you want to see rerun.
See the post on their Facebook page.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Auscision want to know what 48/830 number/colours you want to see rerun.
See the post on their Facebook page.
lkernan
Will they put the correct (NSW style) numbers on 847-849 and 867-869 in the original Traffic Yellow and Regal Red?
These locomotives were built by Goodwin in 1969 using the NSWGR stencils for the numbers and were never repainted in that scheme. Trainorama got the numbers right on their models.

Peter
  NSWRcars Chief Train Controller

Will they put the correct (NSW style) numbers on 847-849 and 867-869 in the original Traffic Yellow and Regal Red?
These locomotives were built by Goodwin in 1969 using the NSWGR stencils for the numbers and were never repainted in that scheme.
M636C
Haven’t we been through this before? Auscision got the numbers right in their first run. They put NSW style numbers on 849, and SA style numbers on 847. Both were correct for the livery, and as run in NSW - there are dozens of published photos to verify this.
  lkernan Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Auscision want to know what 48/830 number/colours you want to see rerun.
See the post on their Facebook page.
Will they put the correct (NSW style) numbers on 847-849 and 867-869 in the original Traffic Yellow and Regal Red?
These locomotives were built by Goodwin in 1969 using the NSWGR stencils for the numbers and were never repainted in that scheme. Trainorama got the numbers right on their models.

Peter
M636C
Maybe you should ask them?
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

845 would be a number that a lot might want as 830's as 830 and 845 were the last two 830's to carry the piping shrikes on them. The newly formed State Transport Authourity grabbed them, but all the rest went to AN so these two locos lingered on a lot longer under state control than the others. When not needed and to keep them ticking over they were lent to or leased to AN to use. Eventually they were disposed of by the then STA and sold to AN and the rest is history as they say.

Maybe some of the red and silver variations on some ANR ones as each loco was unique as basically they had the Commonwealth Railways type of colours on them but each had a different variation of it. I think there were only three done like this and each had slightly different varitions of the same theme.

A later DA loco would not go astray either.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

Totally agree. I wanted to put something similar in my post but it got too long. I'll just add that it's similar to gloss, matt or satin finishes. I remember it being discussed ages ago how model manufacturers settle for something in the middle that'll satisfy the most. All the painted named trains maintained a gloss finish back in the day but put a gloss on these RUBs, or any others, I think it would be hard to achieve the same sheen.  My attempt ages ago on Bergs N carriages using Raileys gloss looked horrendous, as in too glossy, it just didn't scale well.  I definitely needed to experiment with thinners and other additives.
Oscar
A friend of mine years back got an actual prototype bottle of paint as used to paint the 900 class diesels he was given a jar of it. Back then a repainted PA1 loco would pass for it so that is what he did, but after the paint had dried on it neither he or I liked the colour though, it did not look right. So we took the model down to the Mile End Diesel depot one day and asked if we could compare the paint on the model to a recently painted 900 or 930 as the same paint was used on both. We found a 900 in near new paint and the paint matched perfectly to what was on the 900 but even the person showing us around remarked that the colour on the model looked wrong, this was before we compared the paint though.

It is still painted as a 900 in the proper prototype colour and it still looks wrong to most people.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
G (series 1) & BL order forms now online.
  meh Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Thanks to all the replies Re: RUB car windows; to be clear I wasn't suggesting Auscision (or Eureka) got the colour tint of the windows wrong and apologies if it came across that way), but was purely after people who have seen them in service could shed some light on how 'green' they were. So again thanks for the responses and photos.

Now to the G class; is there a substantial difference between the first and second (and later) series G class locos? I know the first series G class were originally an option for AN to become BL class locos before V/Line stepped in and 'purchased' them instead. But what body differences are there between the two series?

Cheers,
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
The body differences at first glance may be hard to spot.
IIRC, the most obvious ones on the 2nd 3rd series are:
- at both ends the marker light orientation changed from that of 1st series/BL. I believe some years later, the 1st series had their marker light orientation changed to match that of the later orders.
- the steps located at cab ends of the loco to access the roof moved with each series change,
- the most obvious of all of these would be the side body grill on the 1st series/BL is gone on the 2nd/3rd series (perhaps to the roof??)

When you look at them again, the differences do stand out.

I believe the 3rd and 4th batches were the same, and until later on in Freight Vic/Aus, the engines were the same. I may be inaccurate on some of this, but compare some in V/Line livery and see.

Regards
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
The body differences at first glance may be hard to spot.
IIRC, the most obvious ones on the 2nd 3rd series are:
- at both ends the marker light orientation changed from that of 1st series/BL. I believe some years later, the 1st series had their marker light orientation changed to match that of the later orders.
- the steps located at cab ends of the loco to access the roof moved with each series change,
- the most obvious of all of these would be the side body grill on the 1st series/BL is gone on the 2nd/3rd series (perhaps to the roof??)

When you look at them again, the differences do stand out.

I believe the 3rd and 4th batches were the same, and until later on in Freight Vic/Aus, the engines were the same. I may be inaccurate on some of this, but compare some in V/Line livery and see.

Regards
davesvline
The BL's were a spartan engine. Crews soon discovered the worth of a good cab committee when the G2 started rolling out.
The BL/G had single wipers on all windows (Vic G all had doubles. The Vic G got two roof mounted sigma air conditioners whilst the BL/G got one in the engine room which had to be switched End A or End B
The Union agreed to accept the BL on condition that certain changes were made. After 5 years the engines went to various shops and some upgrades were done. This was piecemeal and as a result variations occurred which must be breaking Auscisions heart as they decide what mods to include as it would be financially a disaster to do each model individually. But in general aircon, wipers and marker lights are easy, steps into roof moved from grill in mansard to side setting steps into body sides. But some say pictures show that two different positions (at least) have been seen. They also modified the jumper cables with dummy sockets to hold them clear of couplings and added ditch lights (?)
Cheers
Rod
EDIT The G3 got a new engine room door a bifold one giving fitters better access. I wonder if they lost a porthole side window,as did the 81, can't remember although something does niggle Very Happy
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Head on over to https://www.facebook.com/auscisionmodels/ if you want a job at Auscision.
Oh, and Auscision have announced they too will be doing the indigenous NR liveries, refer advert in the August AMRM.
  lkernan Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Head on over to https://www.facebook.com/auscisionmodels/ if you want a job at Auscision.
Oh, and Auscision have announced they too will be doing the indigenous NR liveries, refer advert in the August AMRM.
Poath Junction

Payment will be in Tangaras.

Remember what they say about mixing business and pleasure.
  Just The Tip Junior Train Controller

Location: Danger zone
I would hate to be the person sorting through all those poorly written resumes.
Or taking the phone calls.



Or dealing with the 'mega gunzels' that just turn up at the door and shout.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.


http://www.auscisionmodels.com.au/Indigenous%20NR%20Class%20Locomotive.htm
note the fine print: "...Photo showing early livery without nose dots. Model will be finished with nose dots. "
  M636C Minister for Railways

[color=#0066cc][size=2][font=Roboto, wf_SegoeUI, "Segoe UI", Segoe, "Segoe WP", Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]http://www.auscisionmodels.com.au/Indigenous%20NR%20Class%20...[/font][/size][/color]
note the fine print: "...Photo showing early livery without nose dots. Model will be finished with nose dots. "


Apart from adding the dots on the nose, the large side National Rail logo was removed.

It appears that NR52 incorporated these changes when first painted.

I recall that the side NR logo on NR30 upset people from the area for whom the snake in question formed the local totem.

Peter
  gw0071 Deputy Commissioner

SDS have been very quiet, their advantage may be reduced to supplying unpowered versions...
  M636C Minister for Railways

The G3 got a new engine room door a bifold one giving fitters better access. I wonder if they lost a porthole side window,as did the 81, can't remember although something does niggle
The 81 class lost the porthole when the the main air intake was moved from the mansard on the roof to the body side. The 81 class portholes were at a higher level than those on the G and BL. Locomotives 8181 to 8184 were built with the double door and the others were modified but this did not affect the portholes.

There is a photo of 8102 as built with five portholes on the Clyde Engineering Appreciation Group Facebook page.

Peter
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.


Product update on facebook http://www.facebook.com/auscisionmodels with details of 85 class mailout delays and some other news.
  meh Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
The printing on the Indigenous liveries looks brilliant, and it's only partially completed.

Interesting to note the 422's will have the option of two different prime movers; didn't these all have 16-645E's? including 42220 when it was rebuilt?
  M636C Minister for Railways

The printing on the Indigenous liveries looks brilliant, and it's only partially completed.

Interesting to note the 422's will have the option of two different prime movers; didn't these all have 16-645E's? including 42220 when it was rebuilt?
meh
Around 1980. the 42, 421 and 422 class locomotives were fitted with new mufflers to reduce throwing of sparks after a particularly dry summer when farmers claimed that fires had been set. Only one design of muffler was purchased and this was to the 42 class pattern with closely spaced stacks,

The new mufflers altered the sound of the locomotives. Auscision (presumably) model the locomotives with closely spaced or widely spaced stacks with different sound chips.

Peter
  a6et Minister for Railways

The printing on the Indigenous liveries looks brilliant, and it's only partially completed.

Interesting to note the 422's will have the option of two different prime movers; didn't these all have 16-645E's? including 42220 when it was rebuilt?
Around 1980. the 42, 421 and 422 class locomotives were fitted with new mufflers to reduce throwing of sparks after a particularly dry summer when farmers claimed that fires had been set. Only one design of muffler was purchased and this was to the 42 class pattern with closely spaced stacks,

The new mufflers altered the sound of the locomotives. Auscision (presumably) model the locomotives with closely spaced or widely spaced stacks with different sound chips.

Peter
M636C
Peter

When the 421's were sent west initially, they created huge issues especially on the Scenic when many farmers lost their wheat crops and it became a tooing and froing to the point where the railways would not admit liability, I was at Parkes on Loan when the SG opened in May 1970, and it was causing problems, likewise a big move to get them out of the area owing to the rough riding to BH.  Some of them reminded me of 41cl that were huge in sending up roman candles after powering down after pulling a heavy load.  

The Railways had inspectors out along the scenic at night to observe any issues with the sparks and with the observations they reported the problem was there.  It was not so much small and an odd spark but often when a transition change took place or the engine hunted, a cluster of sparks wen up, and in that cluster there were large clumps of carbon that landed out in the paddocks.

With those results along with the rough riding they were very much seen as a problem, in the same month I worked with a Parkes Driver on the up Freighter from Perth to Bx and Book off to work  the IP back, when we walked down to the station we saw 44cl on the train, the driver baulked and said he had never set foot on one, so a potential problem existed until we got to the station and found a Senior Special class loco Inspector there, he had requested one of us to be familiar with 44cl as just in case, and Cedric was pleased that the Roster clerk at Parkes had put me on the job.

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