New Route: Princes Bridge/City Loop-Epping

 
Topic moved from MSTS General Discussions by bevans on 24 Jun 2014 10:13
  justin Chief Train Controller

Location: The Lemon Meringue Line
Hi guys, I've decided to start route building as I'd love to drive the Epping Line on trainsim as I've lived on it my whole life and just enjoy trips on it.
The route is going to be pretty short starting from Clifton Hill to Epping: Features of the route are the All mighty Rushall 30 km/h curve, the tram depot near Thornbury, The Melbourne Water Reserve land near Reservoir and the Higher speed sections beyond Reservoir of course as it's fairly straight. 

Some may think this is a very dull and boring line but we all see things differently and it's different to everyone. It's awesome driving along and looking at different things as things develop as you're cruising along like the sharp curves, cuttings, and changing suburbs through industrial areas then through open land then back into a suburban/retail precinct at Lalor. 

This is my very first time I've played with Route Editor, I'm learning the tricks and so far it has been a bit of a pain but I am managing, hardest parts done so far which were High Street near Rushall, the all mighty sharp curve and Across Merri Creek. Now heading into Merri. Once the comments are looking positive I'll post some screenies.

Cheers, Justin.

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  Comeng552M Assistant Commissioner

Location: In Sydney "Fixing the trains"
Hi guys, I've decided to start rout building as I'd love to drive the Epping Line on trainsim... Some may think this is a very dull and boring line but we all see things differently and it's different to everyone..
"justin"
Any new route for MSTS certainly won't be boring to drive on, especially if its a suburban Victorian route. I personally think there should be more suburban routes, but we all know how long it takes to actually make one which seems to put people off. So I wish you good luck on the route Justin.

So what time period will it be set in? 1950's or modern day?
  justin Chief Train Controller

Location: The Lemon Meringue Line
Hi guys, I've decided to start rout building as I'd love to drive the Epping Line on trainsim... Some may think this is a very dull and boring line but we all see things differently and it's different to everyone..
"justin"
Any new route for MSTS certainly won't be boring to drive on, especially if its a suburban Victorian route. I personally think there should be more suburban routes, but we all know how long it takes to actually make one which seems to put people off. So I wish you good luck on the route Justin.

So what time period will it be set in? 1950's or modern day?
"Comeng552M"


Well Thanks, It's a pain in the rear end to make and am having issues connecting double line after i've made that horrid curve at Rushall. Good Question, I don't know how hard crossing loops are to put in but It'd probably be closer to the modern day I'd say as close to today as possible.

This is my first time I am saving constantly and lets just hope this will be successful.

Cheers, Justin.
  superheatedsteam Assistant Commissioner

Location: Perth, WA

I have just had a look at the route between Epping and Clifton hill and it’s certainly ‘busy’.  It looks like you will have a lot of fun adding all the scenery.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if your serious about route building then get Michael Vone’s ‘Guide to Routebuilding’.  http://abacuspub.com/ts/catalog/b506.htm

I never heard a route builder say it was a waste of time or money.

Cheers,

Marek.

  PhilChorusch Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
I don't know how hard crossing loops are to put in
"justin"


G'day Justin,

Constructing a crossing loop is real simple, wait until you start building a yard or sindings that you feel are never going to end. I'm not saying this to be mean or being a complete bastard to you mate but to construct a loop this is how you can construct one

Point + double track + Point this would be the normal way by using a 10d point don't forget to finish the loop off with 10d end points

Point + Frog + double track + Frog + Point this is based on 5d and 6d points, note: 5d points are high speed points use these points only where speed points exsists

Constructing a loop on a curve with a point in the middle of the curve is a little more complicated, but if you require a screenshot of one please send me a PM and I will show you one I done for the Condoblin loop on my Molong to Broken Hill route

Note: Remember, that there are 2 sets of points left or right so if you start with a loop that's say on the up side like Wagga Wagga you start with a point right and end with a point left to complete the loop

Don't forget to also check out the XTracks and Steam4me tutorials as these will guide you as well as Michael Vone's step by step guide to route building
Kind Regards, Phil
  justin Chief Train Controller

Location: The Lemon Meringue Line
I don't know how hard crossing loops are to put in
"justin"


G'day Justin,

Constructing a crossing loop is real simple, wait until you start building a yard or sindings that you feel are never going to end. I'm not saying this to be mean or being a complete bastard to you mate but to construct a loop this is how you can construct one

Point + double track + Point this would be the normal way by using a 10d point don't forget to finish the loop off with 10d end points

Point + Frog + double track + Frog + Point this is based on 5d and 6d points, note: 5d points are high speed points use these points only where speed points exsists

Constructing a loop on a curve with a point in the middle of the curve is a little more complicated, but if you require a screenshot of one please send me a PM and I will show you one I done for the Condoblin loop on my Molong to Broken Hill route

Note: Remember, that there are 2 sets of points left or right so if you start with a loop that's say on the up side like Wagga Wagga you start with a point right and end with a point left to complete the loop

Don't forget to also check out the XTracks and Steam4me tutorials as these will guide you as well as Michael Vone's step by step guide to route building
Kind Regards, Phil
"PhilChorusch"



I am having issues snapping this track together, I've mostly been doing double track but doing one track each and now I'm starting to use the A2 track to connect to the A1 but it's either slightly too narrow or wide so it kind've looks like an unjoined or unwelded piece of track, any ideas as to why here's a screenshot showing the issue.


  Melbournesparks Chief Commissioner

Location: City of Eltham
Have a read of this: http://msts.steam4me.net/tutorials/ig_dyna.html then use a bit of dynamic track. Is often a good alternative to using a whole heap of small sections.
  PhilChorusch Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
I am having issues snapping this track together, I've mostly been doing double track but doing one track each and now I'm starting to use the A2 track to connect to the A1 but it's either slightly too narrow or wide so it kind've looks like an unjoined or unwelded piece of track, any ideas as to why here's a screenshot showing the issue.

"justin"


G'day Justin,

I am going to say this now, forget what Melbournesparks has suggested using dynamic track to fix your problem. This will only cause you even more problems for you later on, it did for me

The only thing that I can suggest is that you delete the loop and start from point A to point B so you should always construct a loop from point A, then Middle and then point B faulure to do this will resault in the outcome above

1) You should never construct loops from both ends
2) You should never clip on the 10d End Points to the 10d Points they should always be connected to the 2 100 meter straight and then flipped if required
3) If using 6d Points at least 1 6d End Point is connected to the 6d Point and the other 6d End Point is joined to the 2 100 meter straight and then you should add a straight dynamic track piece between the 2 6d End Points "either end is fine" the straight section of the dynamic track is 5.500 DO NOT exceed this limit unless you have a loop a little spaced out from the 4 footer

Let us know how you go at re-aliging your loop to fit correctly, if not then you are doing something wrong. I would also suggest that you have a look at any route to see how the author(s) has their loops constructed. I will post a screenshot shortly of a loop with a 6d B Point + 6d Frog + straight track and ending with 6d Frog + 6d B Point I just need to find a smaller one to post here Wink So this way it's seen in the full screenshot
Kind Regards, Phil
  PhilChorusch Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Ok, here are some loop samples. Althrough I forgotten about the use of 20 and 40 meter straights being placed in the 6d and 10d loops Embarassed

All loops are constructed from left to right this way it's easier to explain

This is what I call the 6d loop construction, first place the 6d Point Left + 40 Meter Straight + 2x 100 Meter Straight (flipped twice) (note: that all other straights should not be flipped) + 40 Meter Straight + 6d Point Right (Flipped)

Now you add a 6d End Point to the 6d Point Left and Right (Note: the Right is flipped). Next you add (x2) 6d End Points to the 2x 100 meter straight track piece at each end remember that the 6d End Points on the right are flipped and now you fill in the gaps with a 5.500 meter straight Dynamic Track pieces



This is what I call the 6d B loop construction with 6d frogs, this loop is quite simple

First place a 6d B Point Left + 6d Frog Left + 2x 100 Meter Straight (flipped twice) (note: that all other streights are not flipped after this) + 6d Frog Right (Flipped) (note: must being connected to the bottom track not the top track before flipping) + 6d Point Right (flipped)



This is what I call a 10d loop construction, first place a 10d Point Left + 2x 100 Meter Straight (flipped twice) (note that all other straights are not flipped after this) + 10d Point Right (flipped)

Note: When placing the 10d End Point Left this should be snapped onto the 2x 100 Meter Straight track on the Left hand side
Note: When placing the 10d End Point Right this should be snapped onto the 2x 100 Meter Straight track on the right hand side
Do not, place 10d End Points on the points and then flip them otherwise there will be a small tiny space after flipping or a little jaggered



I hope that you find this all useful and easy to understand
Kind Regards, Phil
  JGS Moderator Well. We'll see about THAT!

Location: Junee NSW
Justin, my advice is simple.

1) Get Michael Vone's book. Read it and carry out the exercises.
2) Read and re-read anything you can find at Steam4me.
3) Ask questions of routebuilders who have completed and released routes.

Cheers,
Matt
  PhilChorusch Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Ask questions of routebuilders who have completed and released routes.
"MattAustin"


I hope this isn't direct at me Matt, fair enough I haven't yet completed or released any routes but all my routes are still in very slow working progress

At the moment I am making some 3d models for Peter Newell to run on his upcoming route which I am looking forward to it's release in due time so this way I could help Peter create some activities with alot of stock that are available and some new stock being created by myself and Brian More on this later on
Kind Regards, Phil
  Melbournesparks Chief Commissioner

Location: City of Eltham
I am going to say this now, forget what Melbournesparks has suggested using dynamic track to fix your problem. This will only cause you even more problems for you later on, it did for me.
"PhilChorusch"


Like what Phil? Works fine for me. Even survived a few TDB rebuilds. Of course you can't use dynamic track if you want to use something like scalerail or UKFS track sections, but that's not what we're talking about here.
  JGS Moderator Well. We'll see about THAT!

Location: Junee NSW
Ask questions of routebuilders who have completed and released routes.
"MattAustin"


I hope this isn't direct at me Matt, fair enough I haven't yet completed or released any routes but all my routes are still in very slow working progress
"PhilChorusch"


Well, Phil, I didn't write this in reference to you, but, frankly, it does describe you. You start route after route, get frustrated when they don't work and put them aside, while announcing the next grand routebuilding effort that you're going to undertake. It's easy enough for us to start things, but until we see it through to completion, eradicate all the bugs and solve all the problems, then we're not really in a position to tell others how to do it.

I mean no disrespect through this, Phil, and I think you have great potential. But sadly, much of your 'advice' is incorrect, misleading and unhelpful. You can learn from others, as we all can, and I offer these words in a spirit of assistance.

You have great ability with 3D models, and your modern wagons show a great deal of promise and talent. If I was you, I'd stick with them, as that is where your talent lies.

Cheers,
Matt
  PhilChorusch Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned

I am going to say this now, forget what Melbournesparks has suggested using dynamic track to fix your problem. This will only cause you even more problems for you later on, it did for me.
"PhilChorusch"


Like what Phil? Works fine for me. Even survived a few TDB rebuilds. Of course you can't use dynamic track if you want to use something like scalerail or UKFS track sections, but that's not what we're talking about here.
"Melbournesparks"


G'day Melbournesparks,

Ok, if you have a closer look at Justin's loop you will see that his loop is off by about an inch or so. If Justin was going to use Dynamic Track it would be pointless to fix the problem as it will cause an error forcing him to start all over again due to adjustent track issues if he were to select it at a later date and re-aligning the loop or make any changes to his route in the future

This is one of the many errors I have had within my North Coast route which I am going to completely cut off from Taree to Sydney since this part is already covered in CTN... But more on this later if there will be a later on for it or I may just trash it or continue to build it as a personal route still deciding on what to do with it at the moment

G'day Matt,

I have sent you a PM mate
Kind Regards, Phil

  Melbournesparks Chief Commissioner

Location: City of Eltham

G'day Melbournesparks,

Ok, if you have a closer look at Justin's loop you will see that his loop is off by about an inch or so. If Justin was going to use Dynamic Track it would be pointless to fix the problem as it will cause an error forcing him to start all over again due to adjustent track issues if he were to select it at a later date and re-aligning the loop or make any changes to his route in the future.
"PhilChorusch"


That sounds like a standard issue TDB error you're describing there. Always a nasty thing to encounter, but not necessarily caused by dynamic track in particular. Editing any section of track at a later date always has some risk, but nothing regular backups and a careful eye out for TDB errors can't avoid.

  justin Chief Train Controller

Location: The Lemon Meringue Line

G'day Melbournesparks,

Ok, if you have a closer look at Justin's loop you will see that his loop is off by about an inch or so. If Justin was going to use Dynamic Track it would be pointless to fix the problem as it will cause an error forcing him to start all over again due to adjustent track issues if he were to select it at a later date and re-aligning the loop or make any changes to his route in the future.
"PhilChorusch"


That sounds like a standard issue TDB error you're describing there. Always a nasty thing to encounter, but not necessarily caused by dynamic track in particular. Editing any section of track at a later date always has some risk, but nothing regular backups and a careful eye out for TDB errors can't avoid.

"Melbournesparks"



I am trying to climb my way upto Northcote but does anyone know how to get that nice cutting effect where the land rises and you're still in a cutting, I understand how it works but just cannot work out how to do it, I've tried lowering the track bellow the ground and then seeing if I can bring it back upto level but it still doesn't look very good. Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers, Justin.
  superheatedsteam Assistant Commissioner

Location: Perth, WA

If you don't have Michael Vone's book then read the following:

http://msts.steam4me.net/tutorials/cutting.html

http://msts.steam4me.net/tutorials/wireframe.html

Try setting your terrain bias to 0 in those tiles where you have cuttings and embankments.

If terrain bias 0 still does not give you a fine enough terrain resolution for smooth cuttings then I would suggest creating cuttings using custom made 3D objects.

Cheers,

Marek.

  justin Chief Train Controller

Location: The Lemon Meringue Line

If you don't have Michael Vone's book then read the following:

http://msts.steam4me.net/tutorials/cutting.html

http://msts.steam4me.net/tutorials/wireframe.html

Try setting your terrain bias to 0 in those tiles where you have cuttings and embankments.

If terrain bias 0 still does not give you a fine enough terrain resolution for smooth cuttings then I would suggest creating cuttings using custom made 3D objects.

Cheers,

Marek.

"superheatedsteam"


Hi, I think I may already have that and I have been reading it thanks Marek.


Cheers, Justin.
  justin Chief Train Controller

Location: The Lemon Meringue Line
G'day Ladies and Gents, I here have for you some screenshots of a little bit of bleak progress.
I am learning a bit and I have realized I am not a complete noob at least.



Enjoy!!

Cheers, Justin.
  Hitachi_178M Hitachi's Are Us

Location: Portland/Heywood/Hamilton
Looking Really good keep up the good work
  billybaxter Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
I like it. Excellent work.
  justin Chief Train Controller

Location: The Lemon Meringue Line








Thank You, I will post more Screenshots as I am now upto Reservoir, I have the Melbourne Water Reserve filled with Pine Tree's and the bus depot which is pretty basic even though I don't have the right buses like the east west livery.  I have decided to 1980's 1990's is the go as it would be a lot easier to model as I don't have sufficient Shapes for station buildings, anyhow some from the Broadmeadows Route are very similar to Bell,Thornbury,Northcote and Merri in which we have used but now days they've received a paint job. Tram Depot doesn't look bad, More things to include would be the Reservoir Station building as that's very unique with the parcels area, Epping will be the older brick building on the Island platform, Ruthven, Keon Park, Lalor and Thomastown will all have a very basic station building. I am a novice route builder but with the help of others and dedication I will hopefully get far.


Cheers, Justin.
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Nice work,

Long time since I have been down that way but looks how I remember it, isn't there some kind of old convent building around there.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, all your missing is the ten thousand cars in a traffic jam, if I remember correctly SmileSmile
  justin Chief Train Controller

Location: The Lemon Meringue Line




Thanks,  Still a long work in progress in between finishing off some trains, to be released eventually or hopefully this year, the route is sort of something to keep me occupied when I am really bored. I am very new to the route building side of things but I am somewhat getting the hang of it but mind you the Route Editor is very very annoying at times.

Cheers, Justin.
  matt2010 Station Master




Thanks,  Still a long work in progress in between finishing off some trains, to be released eventually or hopefully this year, the route is sort of something to keep me occupied when I am really bored. I am very new to the route building side of things but I am somewhat getting the hang of it but mind you the Route Editor is very very annoying at times.

Cheers, Justin.
"justin"


looking great. when do you think that it will be released???


thanks

 

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