The Newcastle Rail Line IS to be cut, announced 14 dec 2012

 
  Murasaki Chief Train Controller

Location: Going sideways... in carriage DET-9216 (>ω<)
Don't you require an ACT of Parliament to close line in NSW?
"beanzs27"


"Close", Yes. However, very few lines are actually closed, but rather are 'services suspended', effectively meaning you stop running services and let the rot set in.

"newington"

Frankly, if anything needs cutting, it's not the Newcastle Line, it's the English language. Time passes, and the language becomes evermore broken and corrupted by the wealthy, the powerful and the intelligentsia. Seriously, an effectively closed line that isn't closed? Nan da-kke? (smegged-off-japanese-emoticon-face)

Just as well I redid the photos of me at Civic and Newcastle after my two-day Hunter Line stations rampage on (2012/Dec/06~07)(cheeky-face-japanese-styled-emoticon).

I guess on the plus side, the rail map illustrators will have a slightly simpler diagram to render. Shame the jerks just recoloured the CityRail map for "Sydney" Trains, and slapped on a couple of lines to show the South Coast on the "NSW" Trains. Hey, illustrators, I could do better with Adobe IIllustrator, and it's a POS for anything but vectorising digitised, traditionally-produced art. (o_o)*

* Also, I guess that we can't use the initialism NSW ironically for Newcastle-Sydney-Wollongong anymore. Y'know, 'cos Newcastle's gonna die from bustitution and lack of tourist and local interest, and join the ranks of Kickastickalong, Wheelyabarrowback, B.F.Nowhere and Yass. trollface.jpg

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  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Well, well, well Maitland MP Robyn Parker was NOT invited to the Destroying Newcastle Rail press release yesterday.

He claims that Parker supports cutting the rail line. If she does, why wasn't she invited?

Also note where and when (at first) that this press conference was deliberately kept from the public?
  tom9876543 Train Controller

It is sad that the Newcastle line is going to be cut.

However, it seems to me it is totally stupid to cut the line at Wickham.
If you are going to cut the branch you may as well cut the ENTIRE branch back to the junction.

What should happen is the entire branch is cut and they build a tram line along King St / Parry St / Tudor St to Broadmeadow station.
And Broadmeadow station is upgraded as well.

IMHO the Newcastle branch could be compared to StKilda in Melbourne.
There was a short line to StKilda that was replaced with trams.
I don't think Newcastle is much different.
It is justifiable for the Newcastle branch line to go the same way, replaced by trams.


  mikado5910 Chief Train Controller

Location: Kurri Kurri NSW
Newcastle Express wrote:
Well, well, well Maitland MP Robyn Parker was NOT invited to the Destroying Newcastle Rail press release yesterday.


He claims that Parker supports cutting the rail line. If she does, why wasn't she invited?


I was at a function with Robyn Parker on Thursday night. The ALP member for Cessnock was the one to tell her that Minister Hazzard would be in Newcastle on Friday morning. Until then she appeared to have no knowledge of the event. It appears the Libs are preparing her to walk the plank at the next election, as I'm also told local branch members have been directed not to deal with her.
  drwaddles In need of a breath mint

Location: Newcastle
IMHO the Newcastle branch could be compared to StKilda in Melbourne.
There was a short line to StKilda that was replaced with trams.
I don't think Newcastle is much different.
It is justifiable for the Newcastle branch line to go the same way, replaced by trams.
"tom9876543"


It's not a branch in anything more than name, you nincompoop, it's is the end of the line for Maitland-Newcastle commuter services and Sydney-Newcastle commuter and intercity services. 

If you want to compare it with a Melbourne situation, it is akin to terminating the Frankston/Dandenong/Burnley groups at Richmond and transporting everyone by bus into the CBD.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Dr Waddles is correct Tom9876543, and remember the official direction of UP from Hamilton is towards Newcastle Station.

This waste of a $120 million on ripping out rail needs to be spent on re-opening the eye & diabetic clinic at John Hunter Hospital to regular patients.

If people think that the rail corridor will remain in public hands and that developers are not after the rail land, wrong. Developers are already eyeing off the rail land.

Brad Hazzard has already given himself an "out" if a developer offered "good" money.

He also "guaranteed" that the tracks will be covered over - That guarantee lasted no more than 2 and half hours. He changed his tune to "We are not sure if we are going to rip out the tracks or not.

But their are still people fighting.

  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner


http://www.maitlandmercury.com.au/story/1189419/save-our-rail-chief-accuses-mp-of-slapping-residents-in-the-face/?cs=171




Save Our Rail chief accuses MP of slapping residents in the face
By Belinda-Jane Davis Dec 17, 2012, 4am


Maitland MP Robyn Parker has betrayed the people of Maitland with her secret support of the truncation of the Maitland-Newcastle rail line at Wickham, Save Our Rail president Joan Dawson said.


Ms Dawson said Ms Parker’s conduct was a slap in the face to Maitland residents because she had openly stated while in opposition that she wanted the railway line retained and vowed to fight for it if elected.


Ms Dawson said Planning and Infrastructure Minister Brad Hazzard’s remarks that Liberal MPs across the Hunter – including Ms Parker and Upper Hunter MP George Souris – unanimously wanted the rail line cut to allow revitalisation of Newcastle CBD to occur showed that Newcastle rated higher on Ms Parker’s priorities list than her own electorate.

“Maitland people have continually stated publicly that they need the rail line into Newcastle,” she said.

“Save Our Rail invited all of the candidates to a meeting and she said she supported it and would fight for it.

“She has broken her promise and she needs to have a good look in the mirror and think about her previous statements and who she is representing.”

Mr Hazzard announced on Friday that the railway line will be cut west of Stewart Avenue and a state-of-the-art interchange where commuters were transferred from trains onto buses to complete their journey into the CBD would be built.

The timetable for this to happen is within three to five years. 

Mr Hazzard said the truncation was part of a broader plan to revitalise Newcastle CBD and $120 million had been allocated to the project from the Hunter Infrastructure Fund.

The federal government will be asked to contribute a further $100 million.

Mr Hazzard emphasised the government was merely moving the bus interchange that already existed at Newcastle to Wickham station and this would make public transport services more efficient.

But he could not provide any indication of how long it would take commuters to travel from Wickham to the CBD by bus, although he was adamant that it would be quicker. 

Mr Hazzard, Newcastle MP Tim Owen, Port Stephens MP Craig Baumann and Hunter Business Chamber CEO Kristen Keegan said Maitland people should be jumping for joy because their transport options would be enhanced.

He confirmed Transport Minister Gladys Berejiklian also supported the move.

Opposition Leader John Robertson made a fleeting visit to Newcastle on Friday to hold a press conference in response to the government’s announcement.

He said Maitland people deserved better than a terminated rail line and a second-rate bus option. 

Ms Parker defended the claims against her saying her view on the issue was well-known and she had argued her views in cabinet.

“I have maintained the same position all along but I abide by cabinet decisions - it was a cabinet decision and I am a member of cabinet,” she said.

Ms Parker said Mr Hazzard had phoned her on Friday afternoon with assurances that Maitland people would be taken care of through the efficient bus system.

“It will give people good transport options by terminating the rail line at Wickham because they will have options to go further afield on buses,” she said.

“I’m keen to see Newcastle redeveloped - development needs to happen.”

Ms Parker said the people of Maitland needed to focus on ensuring the promised transport connections were delivered. Save Our Rail will hold a meeting on Wednesday in response to the rail cut announcement at the Station Hotel in Hamilton at 5pm and encouraged anyone who wanted the rail line retained to attend.

She said representatives from Labor, the Greens, Socialist Alliance, Shooters and Fishers, and the Christian Democrats would be there.

The meeting will be a prelude to a rally at Parliament House in Sydney on February 19.




 

 



 

  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Why not lower the  railway line and then build over it with buildings?
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Problems with it being right next to a major river and a lowered line will be well below the water table.  You'd need some pretty impressive (and expensive) pumping both during construction and ongoing for the life of the line.
  petey3801 Chief Commissioner

Location: On the rails
Problems with it being right next to a major river and a lowered line will be well below the water table. You'd need some pretty impressive (and expensive) pumping both during construction and ongoing for the life of the line.
"Gwiwer"


Call in the Dutch! They're the masters of combatting water while building infrastructure!
  trackworker Station Master

Hello,

They did this when they built Wolli Creek station, it is below the water line and in a trench. Its been done before and can be done again, I suspect the developers dont want to foot the bill for the relocation or excavation, He who requests the change to a service in the rail corridor must bear the costs.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

This may not strickly about this topic, but I have a reason for including in this thread.
http://www.nbnnews.com.au/index.php/2012/12/17/mccloy-wants-to-be-a-one-term-wonder/
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner


1. I got forward this & said it is okay to post this:
Please find attached a copy of the media release put out by Opposition Leader John Robertson and myself in relation to the O'Farrell government's announcement that they intend to cut the Hunter rail line at Wickham.

In summary, State Labor's position is that the loss of the rail line is a terrible public transport outcome, a waste of precious public transport dollars and not necessary for Newcastle CBD revitalisation. We support retention of the line.

I know that this is a terrible time of year but we need your help.

John Robertson and myself will be in the Hunter this Wednesday 19 December and will be doing a media conference at 11.30am.

We will be catching the 10.40 train from Maitland to Wickham where we will then hop off and catch a bus to Newcastle station. The press conference will be held at Newcastle station at 11.30am (assuming everything goes to time).

We are looking for people who are able to:

- Join the train from Maitland or any other station along the way to show their support and then catch the bus with us to Newcastle for the press conference.



The timetable is set out below:

Maitland 10.40
Victoria Street 10.44
Metford 10. 47
Metford 10. 47
Thornton 10.50
Beresfield 10.52
Warabrook 11.00
Waratah 11.04
Hamilton 11.07
Wickham 11.09

- Join the intercity train from Sydney to Wickham to show their support and then catch the bus with us to Newcastle for the press conference.

The timetable is set out below:

Morisset 10.18
Fassifern 10.34
Cardiff 10.45
Broadmeadow 10.55
Hamilton 10.59
Wickham 11.01

- Or alternatively meet us at Newcastle station for the media conference at 11.30.

If you are able to assist by sending this to your networks and of course able to join us on Wednesday, please let me know. If you require any further details, please do not hesitate to contact me via email or on 0292302741.

regards

Penny Sharpe

Penny Sharpe MLC

Shadow Minister for Transport
Parliament House
Macquarie St
Sydney NSW 2000
http://www.pennysharpe.com

2. Also, while looking, I found this on Save Our Rail's page: http://www.saveourrail.org.au/

  OK2RUN Assistant Commissioner

OK I must be missing something here. These people want the public to catch a train to Wickham then bus to Newcastle for a meeting that will be held at Newcastle. Why bus from Wickham? Why not continue by train to Newcastle?
  tom9876543 Train Controller

IMHO the Newcastle branch could be compared to StKilda in Melbourne.
There was a short line to StKilda that was replaced with trams.
I don't think Newcastle is much different.
It is justifiable for the Newcastle branch line to go the same way, replaced by trams.
"tom9876543"


It's not a branch in anything more than name, you nincompoop, it's is the end of the line for Maitland-Newcastle commuter services and Sydney-Newcastle commuter and intercity services.

If you want to compare it with a Melbourne situation, it is akin to terminating the Frankston/Dandenong/Burnley groups at Richmond and transporting everyone by bus into the CBD.
"drwaddles"


I could say that you are a nincompoop because you have assumed that most people want to go to Newcastle CBD.
From what I have read the Newcastle CBD is dying so I presume it doesn't have a large number of commuters going there every day for employment.

The Sydney trains could terminate at Waratah Station or Warabook Station, it looks like they have a larger catchment of people who live near to them. It could lead to an increase in patronage.

For the Hunter line I am not sure where most passengers' final destination is. Until a proper survey is done, it is hard to assume they all want to go to the Newcastle CBD. It could be possible most people on the Hunter line are going to Sydney and so the branch to Newcastle is useless for them. It could be possible the majority would actually prefer a direct train to Broadmeadow/Adamstown.





  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
IMHO the Newcastle branch could be compared to StKilda in Melbourne.
There was a short line to StKilda that was replaced with trams.
I don't think Newcastle is much different.
It is justifiable for the Newcastle branch line to go the same way, replaced by trams.
"tom9876543"


It's not a branch in anything more than name, you nincompoop, it's is the end of the line for Maitland-Newcastle commuter services and Sydney-Newcastle commuter and intercity services.

If you want to compare it with a Melbourne situation, it is akin to terminating the Frankston/Dandenong/Burnley groups at Richmond and transporting everyone by bus into the CBD.
"drwaddles"


I could say that you are a nincompoop because you have assumed that most people want to go to Newcastle CBD.
From what I have read the Newcastle CBD is dying so I presume it doesn't have a large number of commuters going there every day for employment.

The Sydney trains could terminate at Waratah Station or Warabook Station, it looks like they have a larger catchment of people who live near to them. It could lead to an increase in patronage.

For the Hunter line I am not sure where most passengers' final destination is. Until a proper survey is done, it is hard to assume they all want to go to the Newcastle CBD. It could be possible most people on the Hunter line are going to Sydney and so the branch to Newcastle is useless for them. It could be possible the majority would actually prefer a direct train to Broadmeadow/Adamstown.

"tom9876543"


Have you even seen the passenger numbers for Newcastle and Civic?
Cityrail just increased size of the suburban spark that starts from nth part of CC to Newcastle from 2 to 4 cars due to numbers.
You don't need a survey, the Cityrail ticket sales will tell you were they are going. Yes they don't all go to Newcastle or Civic.

The CBD is dying, so what are we planning to do. Terminate the line short of a large part of CBD and beyond reasonable walking distance of beach, allow it to be rebuilt to attract more people then use a low density transport medium via a forced change. Oh wow, great planning.

I half heartly buy that perhaps looking at the train numbers, Newcastle station itself could be closed and a new station built near the current Civic Station, perhaps sunk under some major building development. This still keeps the beaches in walking distance and most of CBD. But Wickham is too far. Another Bondi Junction, but worse.

For the NSW taxpayer, the benefit is that potentially less people will use the existing trains, which had growth rates exceeding the local bus system, so less revenue and now they have to fork out for a free bus service to try and make the system seem attractive. For the Newcastle ratepayer they have been duped, sooner or later the NSW govt will ask the Newcastle council to pay for the free bus and they have lost what any other regional city would give their eye teeth for.

Really the simple answer should be run a 6mth reversable trial, let the facts dictate for themselves.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

OK I must be missing something here. These people want the public to catch a train to Wickham then bus to Newcastle for a meeting that will be held at Newcastle. Why bus from Wickham? Why not continue by train to Newcastle?
"OK2RUN"
I contacted them about that, and they have their reasons.

At Tom, this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ4Z3tHP8FE in the normal non-fast mode goes for 4 and half minutes in one shot, of passengers getting off an eight car train. And on Friday at Newcastle Station, I saw the Muswellbrook train arrive, and it had a full load, it must have needed passengers standing.

RTT is correct, their is a reason that a Hunter train was increased to 4 carriages, and at first it was a trial, and even now still has almost a full load at Civic Station going to Newcastle

Then see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmJ_SlyQbDE
Photos, see: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34023326@N02/5177334923/sizes/l/in/set-72157628379844735/


  drwaddles In need of a breath mint

Location: Newcastle
I could say that you are a nincompoop because you have assumed that most people want to go to Newcastle CBD.
"tom9876543"

You could say that but you'd be wrong - no different to your previous post, I suppose.


From what I have read the Newcastle CBD is dying so I presume it doesn't have a large number of commuters going there every day for employment.

The Sydney trains could terminate at Waratah Station or Warabook Station, it looks like they have a larger catchment of people who live near to them. It could lead to an increase in patronage.

For the Hunter line I am not sure where most passengers' final destination is. Until a proper survey is done, it is hard to assume they all want to go to the Newcastle CBD. It could be possible most people on the Hunter line are going to Sydney and so the branch to Newcastle is useless for them. It could be possible the majority would actually prefer a direct train to Broadmeadow/Adamstown.
"tom9876543"


So what you are saying is that you have no idea of the actual facts, no information but would like to offer your opinion anyway based on some assumptions you have no idea about and disagree with someone who knows the city and the issues inside out? Cool. 
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
OK I must be missing something here. These people want the public to catch a train to Wickham then bus to Newcastle for a meeting that will be held at Newcastle. Why bus from Wickham? Why not continue by train to Newcastle?
"OK2RUN"


To demonstrate how inconvenient things will be once the closure takes effect.

Dave
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner


To demonstrate how inconvenient things will be once the closure takes effect.
"thadocta"
At the moment for New Years Eve & Days, you don't need to change, and that event has the largest crowds, and don't need to change, but this developer-governed idea all that crowd that uses the trains will need to have to change at Wickham, get on a bus, and then go to Newcastle.

The same will need to happen if cut for the Fat As Butter concert.

Andrew Cornwall went on the radio claiming that the majority support the decision on the cutting the rail line. NBN's Poll on Monday night, showed a huge 75% out of a total at the time of 758 votes that DO NOT agree with cutting the rail line.
And yes information is suggesting that the Property Council of Australia's poll may have been used in making this decision to cut the rail line. Note the word "property"

EDIT: Correction, the media at first said Brad Hazzard has agreed to go to the meeting, that is incorrect, according to the Save Our Rail president on the radio, he meant that group yesterday.

Edit-2: See http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1193689/poll-newcastle-begins-bid-for-30-commonwealth-games/?cs=305 I included that link on purpose (Not sure, but that seems to have yesterday's date instead of todays.)

  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
My gut feeling is Barry doesn't have enough $$$ to build his NW rail link and other future transport projects that he has in mind (Harbour Bridge crossing etc) so he's getting money out of developers. Terminating at Wickham is very strange IMO, better off stopping at Broadmeadow.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Correction: The media said that Brad Hazzard agreed to meet the Save Our Rail at the meeting. That is in correct, he is not going to be at the meeting.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner


ABC radio: Andrew Fletcher from the Property Council of Australia claims that 90% of 600 (take note of that number) claimed they want the rail line cut, but the other day, he claimed it was only 57% in support.

But the NBN poll has 850 plus that voted with a huge 75% not support cutting the rail line.

Paul Murphy claims that only 50 people protested with FOC had their "disguised" cut the rail meeting in mid-2010. That is incorrect, it was 100+.

And did he forget to tell you that he had only about 10 protesting on HIS side outside opposite the SOR protest?
  NotebookMan Assistant Commissioner

Location: Wahroonga NSW
It is sad that the Newcastle line is going to be cut.

However, it seems to me it is totally stupid to cut the line at Wickham.
If you are going to cut the branch you may as well cut the ENTIRE branch back to the junction.

What should happen is the entire branch is cut and they build a tram line along King St / Parry St / Tudor St to Broadmeadow station.
And Broadmeadow station is upgraded as well.

IMHO the Newcastle branch could be compared to StKilda in Melbourne.
There was a short line to StKilda that was replaced with trams.
I don't think Newcastle is much different.
It is justifiable for the Newcastle branch line to go the same way, replaced by trams.

"tom9876543"

St Kilda is a beachside suburb of Melbourne. Few people would regard Newcastle as a beachside suburb of Broadmeadow. Some would like Newcastle to become a beachside suburb of Wickham, but you deride their point of view.

The fact that the Port Melbourne line was converted in the same way as St Kilda should tip you off that you have confused the head (Flinders St) with the other extremities.
  plettner Chief Train Controller

Location: Kiama
I just read through Barry O'Farrell's Contract With NSW (which can still be found at http://www.contractwithnsw.com.au), just replace words such as "Renovate" or "Return" to "remove" and it starts to make more sense.

I have emailed Gladys about my concerns over the removal of the rail line but more importantly, that it will cost $120 million to do so.




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