El Zorro demise?

 
  a6et Minister for Railways

I'm sure many of the crews involved would be really happy to discuss your opinion in person. Perhaps they'd like to show you pictures of the children that their job helps to feed. I'm sure that their family will understand why they have to be evicted because you're upset that you can't drive the big trains.

You didn't stop for a minute to consider that if they "applied for jobs through normal channels" based on merit and attitude that they would STILL get the job over you. They're not being taken on as charity cases - they have industry experience, they have experience working on various routes and locomotives, which is important to a company taking on a new contract on a new line. They've worked with the wagons used by AWB, something which many PN crews might not. They've showed loyalty to their employer, sticking it out and doing the right thing rather than jumping ship and heading for greener pastures.

Your post is a disgrace, both as a candidate for employment and as a human being.

Don't worry, as your own rationale dictates, "fair is fair in getting a job in the rail industry" - dedicated, loyal and experienced workers beats out self entitlement every time. But you said it yourself, fair is fair. Enjoy the waiting list. I think Woolies is hiring?
Raichase
Raichase & Mudgeeman, both of you deserve medals for what you have said, & in a realistic & quite constrained way also.

Well put, when he grows up he may have some credence in order to get on the footplate.

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  beyerpeacock Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gorton Foundry
That is dead set the biggest load of gunzel smeg I've ever heard. You, sunshine are scum and I too hope you never get on the footplate. F*ckwit.
  JGS Moderator Well. We'll see about THAT!

Location: Junee NSW
Thread is locked, cleaned up and reopened. Any more stupid comments about people deserving or not deserving work will be dealt with swiftly and appropriately.

Cheers
Matt
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Blimey.
  JGS Moderator Well. We'll see about THAT!

Location: Junee NSW
The latest news. There are two interesting meetings to take place early next week.

There will be a windup hearing in the Supreme Court in Sydney on Monday, 24 June.

The first meeting of creditors will take place at the Institute of Chartered Accountants Australia, located at Level 3, 600 Bourke St, Melbourne on Tuesday, 25 June, at 11am.

I'm sure it'll be interesting.

Cheers,
Matt
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Interesting.  

Does this include all El Zorro companies or just El Zorro Transport Pty Ltd ?

Any news on the Regional Port Enterprises company?
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
Interesting.  

Does this include all El Zorro companies or just El Zorro Transport Pty Ltd ?

Any news on the Regional Port Enterprises company?
bevans
Reports elsewhere that PN will take the Warnambool train back in about a month.
  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
Reports elsewhere that PN will take the Warnambool train back in about a month.
Galron

Hearing the same.
Wait and see I guess.
  ShannonO'Neill Beginner

Location: Sydney, Australia
Can all employees and creditors of El Zorro please contact me via

shannon@aventiscapital.com.au

I have information regarding the administration of El Zorro Transport (Administrators Appointed).

Leave your name and number and I will contact you ASAP.
  ihategunzels Beginner

I'm sure many of the crews involved would be really happy to discuss your opinion in person. Perhaps they'd like to show you pictures of the children that their job helps to feed. I'm sure that their family will understand why they have to be evicted because you're upset that you can't drive the big trains.

You didn't stop for a minute to consider that if they "applied for jobs through normal channels" based on merit and attitude that they would STILL get the job over you. They're not being taken on as charity cases - they have industry experience, they have experience working on various routes and locomotives, which is important to a company taking on a new contract on a new line. They've worked with the wagons used by AWB, something which many PN crews might not. They've showed loyalty to their employer, sticking it out and doing the right thing rather than jumping ship and heading for greener pastures.

Your post is a disgrace, both as a candidate for employment and as a human being.

Don't worry, as your own rationale dictates, "fair is fair in getting a job in the rail industry" - dedicated, loyal and experienced workers beats out self entitlement every time. But you said it yourself, fair is fair. Enjoy the waiting list. I think Woolies is hiring?
Raichase
Good response RaiChase, it is important to note that those operators that will fill the void left by El Zorro will need appropriately trained and qualified staff immediately upon taking on the contract. They will not have the time and luxury of taking on new trainees for immediate operation on these runs. Further, the action of employing the El Zorro staff will not push people down the waiting list as these people in most cases will be doing the same job they were doing for El Zorro for the new company. I have been in the rail industry for 30+ years and there is a thing called 'paying your dues' which these El Zorro employees have done. They have done the training and have gained the experience. In many cases they have come from the original government railways and have many years of experience. I wish all of the displaced El Zorro employees the very best of luck in obtaining new employment. (Across all grades and trades)
  ihategunzels Beginner

somthing to do with the locos at Oaklands have been sitting to long and need a mechanical inspection of some sort before running.
Galron
When a loco has been shutdown for more than 72 hours the engines oil galleries need to be pressurised to ensure oil lubricates the crank shaft and upper engine on start up. The suction box (Oil pick up reservoir) needs to be filled up as well.

If this is not done the engine may fail due to the bearings running dry. The oil drains from the main galleries and the bearing surfaces over this 72 hour period.

Further, there is a small possibility that whilst shut down water can enter through the exhaust stack (Rain) and make its way down into the top of the piston if the valves are open. If the engine is started in this condition it will hydraulic and bend rods.

So in summary, the suction box needs to be filled with oil, the engine needs to be pressurised (Oil) and then decompression valves (Test cocks) open whilst the engine is barred over (Dispersing water) by hand. Then the engine is turned over with test cocks open before finally closing the test cocks and firing the engine up. The fitter is vigilant during this process and ensures oil pressure builds up whilst keeping the revolutions of the engine from racing on start up by manipulating the lay-shaft.
  ihategunzels Beginner

Okay then, thanks Raichase
JNSymes
RPE is a company separate to El Zorro but is registered to those that are involved with El Zorro. There are several registered companies that have ties to the principal owners of El Zorro. RPE, RLG.....
  ihategunzels Beginner

seems that a 3rd company has been setup by the sounds of that audio grab, with accreditation transfered to that. They obviously are continuing to run trains. Interesting to see how long it all lasts. Directors can be held responsible for the debts of their companies these days.
Galron
Victorian Rail Accreditation is not transferable. El Zorro are an accredited rail operator still. A new company would have to apply for accreditation and be subject to the normal processes of accreditation. A statutory six month processing period applies to new accreditations. See the Rail Safety Act on the TSV web site. http://www.transportsafety.vic.gov.au/
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
cute user name Razz
  JGS Moderator Well. We'll see about THAT!

Location: Junee NSW
Very interesting meeting in Melbourne! I'll find out what details can be released, if any.

Cheers,
Matt
  JGS Moderator Well. We'll see about THAT!

Location: Junee NSW
A very interesting  public meeting in Melbourne yesterday. Our roving reporter in the room took some notes, and some of the more interesting details are as follows.

The performance of the business was detailed.

In the 2010 financial year, they lost 3.5 million.
In the 2011 financial year, they lost 6.5 million.
In the 2012 financial year, they lost around 6.5 million.

So, the company was unwell for a long time.

It would appear (in case there was any doubt) that El Zorro owed a lot of people, a lot of money. Some figures were quoted;

Staff are owed millions. It was noted that the company does need to go into liquidation, at which stage staff should be paid for the bulk of their entitlements.

Seymour cracked the ton, being owed a smidge over a million bucks.
That's an interesting discussion on its own!
V/Line are owed, in various entities  three million plus.
ARTC didn't participate, but a figure of two million plus was mentioned.
CFCLA, in its various entities, is owed around two million.
NREC is owed $450k. So much for the gensets!
The DERM group got off lightly, being $117k out of pocket.
Various fuel suppliers were owed amounts in the tens of thousands.

It was commented that Ray will have to go personally bankrupt.

The most contentious issue was the value of the Cargill/AWB debt. Cargill claimed it was in the order of 6 plus million and the administrators counter claimed similar sum a significant portion of which involved an invoice raised by Zorro after the agreement was terminated and that Cargills have never received. The administrator, appointed by Ray Evans, ruled that he would only allow an offset for roughly 250k.

Cargill's lawyer said that they would be taking them to court over the ruling. It will be interesting to note what comes out of that as it could have changed a lot of things on the day.

Very interesting!

Cheers,
Matt
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

Thanks Matt, You've made me realize how little I know about how business operates in this country. I could see how it was in Cargills interest for the business to continue in the manner that it was, but I am amazed that all those other creditors(employees excepted) could continue throwing good money after bad. I understand  fuel companies being flexible with their terms to stop buyers going to the competition but what of the network providers. You want to run trains, you run on our network. No ifs, no buts. Don't pay the bills, don't run trains. Obviously, the mess would have been a lot smaller if a few on the list had done some homework on the viability of the business. If we heard the rumours here, surely most of the businesses on the list should have been looking at their outstanding invoices. Did they all think Ray was going to win Powerball?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Were CRL present?

Arguably it was there legal move to wind up EZ that brought the situation to a head.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Obviously, the mess would have been a lot smaller if a few on the list had done some homework on the viability of the business. If we heard the rumours here, surely most of the businesses on the list should have been looking at their outstanding invoices. Did they all think Ray was going to win Powerball?
"fzr560'


Precisely.

It shows conclusively that there was a complete absence of business acumen amongst various suppliers.  To repeat what I have said in another forum, and I speak from 25 years experience in the hire industry,  well-run equipment hire companies  allow credit on normal 30 day terms, or maybe out to 60 days.  Then, if the bill isn't paid, the equipment gets taken back - no ifs, buts or maybes.  If the hirer hasn't paid by that time, there's a good chance that he won't at all.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Were CRL present?

Arguably it was there legal move to wind up EZ that brought the situation to a head.
bingley hall
Who is CRL, please?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Who is CRL, please?
YM-Mundrabilla
Consolidated Rail Leasing
  Hendo Deputy Commissioner

May I ask what Ray Evan's background in the industry is? It seems he got an absolutely extraordinary amount of goodwill in being allowed to defer lease payments.


Cheers,
Hendo
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
So in regards to their own "owned" rolling stock I assume it will be sold off to the highest bidder?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
May I ask what Ray Evan's background in the industry is? It seems he got an absolutely extraordinary amount of goodwill in being allowed to defer lease payments.


Cheers,
Hendo
Hendo

(Please do not over analyse this as I am typing from memory having met him a few times)

Ray has a well established history in the industry.  He was a driver for many years and move into Great Northern which eventually had issues. He then started El Zorro and the business took off. I have met with Ray several times and my view is he is a game changing person.  He is very knowledgeable and can inspire others. He is a worth entrepreneur. What he is not is a CEO or MD.  He also could not delegate.

He suffered from poor advice. The way he contracted AWB for one.  Given the opportunity I would work with Ray but he needs to understand what his strengths and weaknesses are.  This might help him with some internal reflection.
  SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
Thanks for the report. Interesting ??  Bloody mind boggling to be honest.

How on earth was ElZ able to operate for so long with such high debt loading? Talk about leverage...phew !!

There's goodwill...and theres stupidity.  I think a few shareholders of the other companies ought to be asking just as many question of them  as they are of El Z to be honest.

All business operates on  'tick' but theres dilligence and theres complacency/ill-directed benevolence.

Im sure if the fox had been a public listed company they would have been forced to the wall a long time ago as transparency would have brought it to the attention of those that needed to know much sooner.

Quite frankly theres a lot of poor administration in some of these companies hiring out to allow the bills to get so high.

Some folk need to fall on swords.

Good luck and such to the innocent involved....

caveat emptor

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