El Zorro demise?

 
  tatong branch Beginner

You, sir, are 100 percent wrong.

We do want heritage engines running, but on heritage trains - the very reason for their preservation.
Valvegear
How many heritage engines do you need to run heritage trains and who is going to pay for there up keep. The engines at Ettamgah may not be heritage engines but there sitting there with no work and theres plenty more around.

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  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
How many heritage engines do you need to run heritage trains and who is going to pay for there up keep. The engines at Ettamgah may not be heritage engines but there sitting there with no work and theres plenty more around.
tatong branch
Either way, your argument is irrelevent.

This thread is for the discussion of the demise of El Zorro. Not the discussion of Aurizon's assets, or what preservation groups are going to do for a quid. If you'd been reading, you'd already know that the preservation groups who were silly enough to throw all their eggs in the one basket are owed an absolute fortune through hiring them out to El Zorro. This alone puts your attempted argument into null, and void territory.

Please take your ill-conceived arguments elsewhere.
  JGS Moderator Well. We'll see about THAT!

Location: Junee NSW
G'day folks,

As a result of Consolidated Rail Leasing's application, a liquidator was appointed to El Zorro today, and ASIC were informed at 15:16:05 hrs. Interestingly enough, it wasn't the one chosen by Ray Evans as his administrator.

Now staff might get money from the government, having waited for some time for what they're entitled to.

Further developments as they come to hand.

Cheers,
Matt
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
Looks like some Elzorro assets are on the move, with a pic on facebook/TDU of S302 attached to QUBE's 44202 at Seymour today, as well as a comment that there has been a shuffling of the TL's at Portland, with TL152 reported as being parked now in front of GM36. Not sure which of the TL's are going so cant suggest moves are afoot to bring GM36 back to Seymour.
  JGS Moderator Well. We'll see about THAT!

Location: Junee NSW
Interesting bit of news on the way. It seems that a new bunch of companies have not long been registered, with certain details in common with earlier companies. I'll get the details together and post them here later today.

It seems that our friends have been busy!
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
thanks for the update

Regards
Brian
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
was posted on facebook tonight a link on Grays online to the sale of various El Zorro bits, including a Y class in a mostly dismantled state

http://www.graysonline.com/sale/3003803/transport-trucks-and-trailers/prime-mover-locomotive-parts-vehicle-more?spr=true
  SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
was posted on facebook tonight a link on Grays online to the sale of various El Zorro bits, including a Y class in a mostly dismantled state

http://www.graysonline.com/sale/3003803/transport-trucks-and-trailers/prime-mover-locomotive-parts-vehicle-more?spr=true
Galron
Auction cancelled
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
I have a feeling that some of the ballast wagons which were being offered for sale, may not have belonged to El Zorro. I do know that some of the VGR's were hired to EZ through the SRHC. I have photos of them being prepared to go out on hire which I took during 2004 at the SRHC depot. I'm happy to post a photo if anyone is interested. Could this be a possible reason for the cancellation of the auction...?
  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
I have a feeling that some of the ballast wagons which were being offered for sale, may not have belonged to El Zorro. I do know that some of the VGR's were hired to EZ through the SRHC. I have photos of them being prepared to go out on hire which I took during 2004 at the SRHC depot. I'm happy to post a photo if anyone is interested. Could this be a possible reason for the cancellation of the auction...?
"Barrington Womble"


Who is Keven Hoskings of Hoskingsworth??
As this is the person who apparently canceled the auction.

I wonder if some little birdie told Greys that all was not above board with these assetts.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Who is Keven Hoskings of Hoskingsworth??
As this is the person who apparently canceled the auction.

I wonder if some little birdie told Greys that all was not above board with these assetts.
Black Hoppers

Hoskingsworth are the court appointed liquidators, they listed the items on Grays. There could be any number of reasons the sale has been cancelled (eg. questions over asset ownership, mistakes in asset descriptions, a bulk offer made for the assets, the list is endless...)
  JGS Moderator Well. We'll see about THAT!

Location: Junee NSW
Oh yeah, I forgot to come back with the info the other day!

A new company has been formed. Don Diego Holdings Pty Ltd (ACN 165 204 651), registered on 7 Aug 13.  Place of business is listed as 54A Albemarle Street Williamstown. Anyone know who else had that address?! The director and secretary of Don Diego Holdings Pty Ltd is one Pamela Merle Lopez, of 54 Alma Terrace, Newport. Her name has come up in recent times.

Don Diego Holdings Pty Ltd has twelve shares. These shares are owned by one Raymond Powell Evans, of 54 Alma Terrace, Newport. I think we've heard that name before!

There is another company; Masked Fox Group Pty Ltd (ACN 165 204 866), also registered on 7 Aug this year. This company has twelve shares, all of which are held by Don Diego Holdings Pty Ltd. Masked Fox Pty Ltd also has the address of 54A Albemarle Street Williamstown as its place of business. This company also has Pamela Merle Lopez, of 54 Alma Terrace, Newport as its director and secretary. So, we can see the relationship here.

Now, four more new companies have been founded;

Masked Fox Enterprizes Pry Ltd
Masked Fox Leasing Pty Ltd
Masked Fox Personnel Pty Ltd
Masked Fox Transport Pty Ltd

I've seen the records for Masked Fox Personnel Pty Ltd and Masked Fox Transport Pty Ltd. Both of these companies has twelve shares. The twelve shares of each of these companies are held by Masked Fox Group Pty Ltd. I haven't seen the first two records to confirm whether they have the same organisational structure as the second two.

So, what do we have here. Don Diego Holdings, Pty Ltd, a company, with Pam Lopez as director and secretary, and Ray Evans as director. This company has another company under it, and this second company has four more companies under it. The same family is well-represented in all of the records of these companies that I've seen.

So, make of that what you will. It's all on the public record and available for those who choose to follow it up. We have a group of companies that appears to be interested in transport, leasing, personnel and other enterprises. Join the dots, and we see some serious involvement with people who have something to do with this thread!
  Hendo Deputy Commissioner

Thank You JGS,

Poor old Ray (I am being facetious there) can't give it up can he. I wonder how many suckers he will find this time.


Cheers,
Hendo
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Reminds me of an old woman I knew down in Victoria's South West, who used to dream of winning the Melbourne Cup. She would buy or lease horses with the dream that one of them would lead her to glory. The dream quickly developed into a life-long obsession, and has remained with her throughout her life. Usually after a short time (or mostly before she even acquired the horse), it would be clear to all around her that the horse she thought was a winner, was never going to get her across the line or anywhere near the racetrack for that matter. Her husband left her because he couldn't see the sense in what she was doing, and for his own sanity, I think. He did remain in contact with her though; because she had no other family (that I knew of anyway), and probably still felt some responsibility for her. He was a lovely chap - very well educated. Anyway. One of these horses she had acquired; she really thought was a winner, and she began trying to train it. I think she was around 65 at the time. During one of these training sessions, the horse threw her off, and she broke her leg badly. She was in hospital for a few weeks, which saw her ex-husband drive from interstate to tend to her horses' food while she was incapacitated. He was less than impressed about what had happened. Even with the injury, she never stopped talking about training this horse for winning the Melbourne Cup. A few months later, her ex-husband bought her a house with a large-ish parcel of land for her horses around 20km from where she was living, as she had been renting or borrowing land previously. She never had any money that I know of, and what she did have was spent on her horses (around 20 of them, with only maybe 3 of which were rideable). I guess he felt that she needed her own place, where she wasn't relying on the kindness of others, or having to rent without having the means to. Either way, all of this was caused by one thing - obsession. This is a true story, and I have no idea if the lady is still alive or not. The last time I saw her was in late 2005, when I was hired to do some fencing, and general labouring for her just after she moved to the new property. I always thought it was pretty sad. I am sure there was some form of undiagnosed mental illness at play as well. How can you waste your life chasing a dream, and never realise it was never going to happen? Life isn't a Hollywood movie, and it's very rare that life does play out like one.

I can see exactly the same thing level of obsession with these new companies popping up, with the same people involved. It might not be winning the Melbourne Cup, but it's the dream of being a transport mogul like Lindsay Fox, or the TNT bloke. A lot of the success has to do with the team behind the CEO, and knowing when to do the Kenny Rogers*. It's also got a lot to do with circumstance at the time, and again, this goes back to doing the Kenny Rogers. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here though. I just hope the people behind these companies wake up before they disenfranchise even more people, and lose everything they've ever worked for. You're flogging a dead horse, and it's time to move on.



* For those wondering what I'm on about when I refer to Kenny Rogers, it is to do with the first half of the chorus in his song "The Gambler" - a God-awful song, but good advice at the same time. :

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
Reminds me of an old woman I knew down in Victoria's South West, who used to dream of winning the Melbourne Cup. She would buy or lease horses with the dream that one of them would lead her to glory. The dream quickly developed into a life-long obsession, and has remained with her throughout her life. Usually after a short time (or mostly before she even acquired the horse), it would be clear to all around her that the horse she thought was a winner, was never going to get her across the line or anywhere near the racetrack for that matter. Her husband left her because he couldn't see the sense in what she was doing, and for his own sanity, I think. He did remain in contact with her though; because she had no other family (that I knew of anyway), and probably still felt some responsibility for her. He was a lovely chap - very well educated. Anyway. One of these horses she had acquired; she really thought was a winner, and she began trying to train it. I think she was around 65 at the time. During one of these training sessions, the horse threw her off, and she broke her leg badly. She was in hospital for a few weeks, which saw her ex-husband drive from interstate to tend to her horses' food while she was incapacitated. He was less than impressed about what had happened. Even with the injury, she never stopped talking about training this horse for winning the Melbourne Cup. A few months later, her ex-husband bought her a house with a large-ish parcel of land for her horses around 20km from where she was living, as she had been renting or borrowing land previously. She never had any money that I know of, and what she did have was spent on her horses (around 20 of them, with only maybe 3 of which were rideable). I guess he felt that she needed her own place, where she wasn't relying on the kindness of others, or having to rent without having the means to. Either way, all of this was caused by one thing - obsession. This is a true story, and I have no idea if the lady is still alive or not. The last time I saw her was in late 2005, when I was hired to do some fencing, and general labouring for her just after she moved to the new property. I always thought it was pretty sad. I am sure there was some form of undiagnosed mental illness at play as well. How can you waste your life chasing a dream, and never realise it was never going to happen? Life isn't a Hollywood movie, and it's very rare that life does play out like one.

I can see exactly the same thing level of obsession with these new companies popping up, with the same people involved. It might not be winning the Melbourne Cup, but it's the dream of being a transport mogul like Lindsay Fox, or the TNT bloke. A lot of the success has to do with the team behind the CEO, and knowing when to do the Kenny Rogers*. It's also got a lot to do with circumstance at the time, and again, this goes back to doing the Kenny Rogers. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here though. I just hope the people behind these companies wake up before they disenfranchise even more people, and lose everything they've ever worked for. You're flogging a dead horse, and it's time to move on.



* For those wondering what I'm on about when I refer to Kenny Rogers, it is to do with the first half of the chorus in his song "The Gambler" - a God-awful song, but good advice at the same time.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
"Barrington Womble"


Great post indeed.

Could it also just be that he is a sandwich short of a picnic and thinks that he is doing good things despite everyone and his dog telling him he is a total whackjob.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

What it really shows is how useless Government Regulators are,allowing this crook to pop up again.He should be in jail when you look closely at some of the dodgy deals and practices he has employed in the past.They preyed on the good will of contactors and suppliers.He even appointed one of his dodgy lawyer mates as the original liquidator of El Zoro but the creditors soon put a stop to that and put in their own Independent Liquidator.
The Rail Government Regulators allowed them to continue even though they knew they were not paying their access fees to the network and ACCC knew they were trading insolvent yet they did nothing about it and it now seems like these same Government Regulators still have their heads in the sand.
What a Joke.
  Black Hoppers Chief Train Controller

Location: Banned
What it really shows is how useless Government Regulators are,allowing this crook to pop up again.He should be in jail when you look closely at some of the dodgy deals and practices he has employed in the past.They preyed on the good will of contactors and suppliers.He even appointed one of his dodgy lawyer mates as the original liquidator of El Zoro but the creditors soon put a stop to that and put in their own Independent Liquidator.
The Rail Government Regulators allowed them to continue even though they knew they were not paying their access fees to the network and ACCC knew they were trading insolvent yet they did nothing about it and it now seems like these same Government Regulators still have their heads in the sand.
What a Joke.
"2LaGrange"


Have the ACCC and the Rail regulators even been made aware of this clowns new companies or are you just thinking that they have been told about this sorry sagas?
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Great post indeed.
Could it also just be that he is a sandwich short of a picnic and thinks that he is doing good things despite everyone and his dog telling him he is a total whackjob.
Black Hoppers
I certainly don't think he's a sandwich short of a picnic, I just think he's too far obsessed with a dream which simply isn't achievable. It's almost an illness. Everytime somebody tells him it can't be done, it feeds the the desire to succeed, and prove them wrong. Problem is that it's a vicious cycle; as he continually gets into debt, and can't pay the bills to those either kind enough (or stupid enough...) to back him with his latest venture. When the house of cards falls down, it leaves a flotilla of creditors in his wake amid a sea of disenchantment, and a heap of disenfranchised employees.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

Im saying its the ACCCs job to make sure this guy and his partener do not start new companies considering whats gone on with El Zoro and by the look of it they have failed and if they gain accreditation from the rail regulators to operate rail freight services that will be another failure on the part of the government .Useless is the word that comes to mind.The rail regulators will hammer reputable operators for any shift hours breaches on the grounds of fatigue management yet they let this clown get away with not paying access fees,operating with dubious liability insurance and now possibly re surface as an accredited rail operator.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
First Principle:- if you have locos available, do not lease them to anyone whom you feel cannot be trusted to pay his Bills. No locos means no work for whichever fly-by-night new entity may crop up, and the said entity vanishes into the night.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
First Principle:- if you have locos available, do not lease them to anyone whom you feel cannot be trusted to pay his Bills. No locos means no work for whichever fly-by-night new entity may crop up, and the said entity vanishes into the night.
"Valvegear"


Or you use the other standard practice .... Payment In Advance
  2LaGrange Train Controller

Nice thought to Pay in advance or apply first principle but what do you do when you lease a loco or rolling stock and then every time you threaten leagal action over unpaid bills at the stroke of midnight they pay enough to roll over into the next billing period and the whole cycle begins again.If you take back locos and rolling stock ect you will never see a cent but if you let them keep trading you may see some of your money,this guy knew that and was great at manipulating these ciurcumstances.You also have to consider these locos and other equipment have money owed and interest to be paid on them so any work is better than none and its a calculated risk you have to take as a loco/rolling stock leasor/owner.Happens in lots of industries not just rail.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
2LaGrange, it's very simple.  You change the terms. If you're sending 30 day Invoices which he pays on the stroke of, say, 90 days, and just avoids legal action, your terms revert to cash in advance.
He needs the locos. You don't need a customer who trades using your money.
The supplier in this instance is entirely in the box seat.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

Well obviously it was not that simple was it.If it was that simple then why didnt suppliers do just that and take back locos and wagons ect,what about fuel suppliers and workshops owed for maitenance performed,we do not have access to contracts,terms of payment ect so its hard to say what really went on.In an ideal world they would have been wound up a long time before they ended up with debts of over $6 million.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Well obviously it was not that simple was it. If it was that simple then why didnt suppliers do just that and take back locos and wagons ect
"2LaGrange"


Wrong.  It was that simple.

The reason it wasn't done was a total lack of business acumen by people who had no idea how to run a hire business. They were played for suckers.  Just in case you're wondering, I had 25 years management experience in the Hire industry, and I know of what I speak.

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