WCWR to close?

 
  dw54 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Devonport, Tas





hire a railcar from another preservation group to run a cut price sightseer service?
"Floody"


Non of the bigger DP railcars would run down there, to long etc. If someone happen to get the old Flying Flea, restore that, maybe.

"Z1NorthernProgress2110"

How about DRR's little Riley? Razz
DW in Devonport

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  dw54 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Devonport, Tas





The WCWR may not make money in isolation, but how much money is generated on the back of it? Tasmania is economically depressed. Does it need more, or less, reasons for people to visit, stay longer and spend more money?

"i_know_nothing"


Sounds great in theory, but are the entities that make money on the back of it willing to subsidise the railway in return? Unfortunately I suspect not...

"Graham4405"


Federal own the bulk of tourist accommodation in Strahan. Dunno about Queenstown. So in Strahan it was a case of left hand - right hand.

DW in Devonport

  dw54 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Devonport, Tas



So...Wages aren't the problem, so volunteering won't fix it. Passenger volume is down. Outflow of money for maintenance/upgrading on the surface looks fairly constant regardless of passenger volume on the current timetable.



What volume of passenger traffic do they need to get to make it closer to self sufficient, and how? Would money spent now in marketing to get the volumes up make a saving down the track (no pun intended) in terms of revenue top ups needed?
Can more passenger volume facilitate enough revenue keeping on top of the maintenance? Is there even the capacity to make it self sufficient, I mean could it even support the numbers of tourists needed for that revenue level?

Will more trips/passengers mean higher maintenance or is it influenced more by weather and scheduled upkeep?

My big question is whether a wider investment in heritage rail across the state (e.g. upgrading and certifying in safeworking etc, OH&S stock/infrastructure upgrades) and reopening of the mainline to heritage groups might get a bigger cohort of rail tourists into the state, staying longer, spending more and more widely which may offset the Abt's future top ups? If a tourist were to come down and spend a week visiting Abt, Don, Redwater creek, DVR, TTMS, QVMAG, Lune River and so forth could it make it worth the subsidy for what is a very expensive potential flagship attraction.



"Floody"

Floody, were you aware that several key pieces of infrastructure have now reached the end of their useful lives - AIUI, the specifically includes at least one bridge. The cost of patching up these items was eating into the flimsy margin of net benefit Federal got (I'd imagine they factored in their profit from accommodation sales stimulated by the WCWR). So, the Directors had to discharge their fiduciary duty and make orderly arrangements to have that operation terminated.

It's sad that right now, our Kindy Teacher and her treehugger wierd friends haven't got a big pot to spend on the capital renewal works that are needed.

DW in Devonport

  Z1NorthernProgress2110 Chief Commissioner

Location: Burnie, Tasmania

How about DRR's little Riley? Razz
DW in Devonport

"dw54"

It has been down there, once. a few years ago. Highy doubt it would go back there though.

  dw54 Assistant Commissioner
  Floody Locomotive Driver






Floody, were you aware that several key pieces of infrastructure have now reached the end of their useful lives - AIUI, the specifically includes at least one bridge. The cost of patching up these items was eating into the flimsy margin of net benefit Federal got (I'd imagine they factored in their profit from accommodation sales stimulated by the WCWR).

"dw54"


Yep, I was aware of that. Doesn't really change the question, would that cost issue be one traffic could fix or is it just going to be an ongoing saga of top ups beyond the means of the operator? I would like to know what level of traffic it would need to even break even (particularly once you account for additional wear and tear).

I mean it wouldn't be the only tourist asset we have that costs more to run than it makes, but it is a considerable chunk of cash to write off on a regular basis.

  sam6778 Junior Train Controller

Location: Rockingham, WA







hire a railcar from another preservation group to run a cut price sightseer service?
"Floody"


Non of the bigger DP railcars would run down there, to long etc. If someone happen to get the old Flying Flea, restore that, maybe.

"Z1NorthernProgress2110"

How about DRR's little Riley? Razz
DW in Devonport

"dw54"


What about the railmotor on display in the West Coast Pioneers Mermorial?
Didn't that use to run on the Abt railway back in the day?
Cheers

  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld



What about the railmotor on display in the West Coast Pioneers Mermorial?
Didn't that use to run on the Abt railway back in the day?
Cheers

"sam6778"


I don't know the answer to that, but here is a photo of said RailMotor:


  dw54 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Devonport, Tas





What about the railmotor on display in the West Coast Pioneers Mermorial?
Didn't that use to run on the Abt railway back in the day?
Cheers

"sam6778"


I don't know the answer to that, but here is a photo of said RailMotor:



"Graham4405"


That'd be nice, too. Two cute little, relatively low maintenance vehicles - might be able to defer some of the major capital works. Extend the rails back into Strahan township so that boat & train packages can be sold with walk up from the various accommodations. May be able to keep it ticking over until the tourism market picks up again.

Worth a thought, anyway.

DW in Devonport

  Rowallan Junior Train Controller

Location: Cardiff South

The right of way between Strahan and Regatta Point is now a shared bike/walking track, recently being concreted.  

But man we are getting pretty lazy if we can't be bothered travelling from Strahan to Regatta Point???????

  dw54 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Devonport, Tas



The right of way between Strahan and Regatta Point is now a shared bike/walking track, recently being concreted.

But man we are getting pretty lazy if we can't be bothered travelling from Strahan to Regatta Point???????

"Rowallan"

Think of the profile of Tas and Oz internal, well-funded tourists. The fit ones are doing the Overland Walk, canoeing and kayaking and that sort of stuff. They're often backpackers. The ones who don't qualify under that category are spending the kids' inheritance and probably would be put off by such a walk, if they could make it anyway. And there aren't many cabs in Strahan.

DW

  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
As government money is going to be involved perhaps a condition for any new operator should be that some tickets must be affordable for members of the wider community rather than a select group of wealthier visitors.
  VRfan Moderator

Location: In front of my computer :-p



As government money is going to be involved perhaps a condition for any new operator should be that some tickets must be affordable for members of the wider community rather than a select group of wealthier visitors.

"GeoffreyHansen"


Given that it's operating with paid staff in very difficult terrain, I don't see how you could expect tickets to be cheaper without some sort of government subsidy for each passenger.

  locojoe67 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gen X purgatory/urban Joh-land

Ticket prices are high to ensure a return to the operator. Familes I know that live there don't go due to ticket cost. Whereas visitors budget for that as a once-off holiday expense.

There already is a subsidy, tipped in at the beginning as a grant for buildings and trackwork.

The latest announcement of $6m for urgent trackwork provided another operator is found is just another subsidy.

  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE






The right of way between Strahan and Regatta Point is now a shared bike/walking track, recently being concreted.

But man we are getting pretty lazy if we can't be bothered travelling from Strahan to Regatta Point???????

"Rowallan"

Think of the profile of Tas and Oz internal, well-funded tourists. The fit ones are doing the Overland Walk, canoeing and kayaking and that sort of stuff. They're often backpackers. The ones who don't qualify under that category are spending the kids' inheritance and probably would be put off by such a walk, if they could make it anyway. And there aren't many cabs in Strahan.

DW

"dw54"


There are two ways people get to Strahan, bus and car. Buses use organised trips, I doubt people would be strandard. The rest (bulk) have their own car.

Extending the line, yes nice, but really just adds to the running cost of the railway and ticket prices.

  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE




Ticket prices are high to ensure a return to the operator. Familes I know that live there don't go due to ticket cost. Whereas visitors budget for that as a once-off holiday expense.

There already is a subsidy, tipped in at the beginning as a grant for buildings and trackwork.

The latest announcement of $6m for urgent trackwork provided another operator is found is just another subsidy.

"locojoe67"


The only way to get ticket prices down is for there to be more users (or less operating cost, unlikely).

I think the cut price version needs to be looked at, ie using inspection cars or similar. Even self powered trikes for the fitter guru's who can ride in an organised group from Strahan and/or Queenstown either half way return or the full journey. Just relying on higher cost steam/diesel power limits the options to reduce costs and provide alt experience and repeat customers. I know my family would love to hire a trike and cruise the line in a guided tour.

  Floody Locomotive Driver


Surely trikes would be safeworking havoc, and doesn't it already take the bulk of the day for the main services to run the round trip?

I really think the big question is how many patrons are needed to make it sustainable, break even, or just keep the loss to an acceptable level? I suspect that its probably a huge number when you factor in the increases in wear and tear on the equipment and infrastructure, fuel consumption, staffing etc needed to maintain a larger patronage.

Wacky, left field, foamer idea...Is the driving compartment of DP13 a total loss as per the rest of it? If not maybe they could purchase that and build a DP outline short wheelbase car?

  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong

A great idea to encourage travel by local residents is to have a card than be bought by residents of a certain geograhical region (using postcodes) and which gives them discounted travel.

Business already using this include Searoad Ferries (Sorrento - Queenscliff ferry), and Puffing Billy.


Searoad Ferry Local Rewards Card: http://www.searoad.com.au/locals/



Puffing Billy Resident Rail Card: http://www.puffingbilly.com.au/services-fares/resident-rail-card


  Railnthusiast Chief Commissioner

Location: At the computer



Surely trikes would be safeworking havoc, and doesn't it already take the bulk of the day for the main services to run the round trip?

"Floody"

Yes, it does take the most part of a day. The trip does however include a lunch stop, gold panning stop and honey tasting stop though.
Trikes would probably take too long to do the full trip. Especially seeing as these people who would be riding them are probably not going to be gold medalist rowers or weight lifters, and these people will want to potter at the pace of the slowest person in the group.
How fast did/does the train travel? I remember it was really slow, but probably not as slow as a trike.

  Z1NorthernProgress2110 Chief Commissioner

Location: Burnie, Tasmania

.

Wacky, left field, foamer idea...Is the driving compartment of DP13 a total loss as per the rest of it? If not maybe they could purchase that and build a DP outline short wheelbase car?

"Floody"

From what i read and been told, DP13 is a heritage loco, meaning it can't be shortened at all. Also i have heard it has to be rebuilt to per original look, but certain mods are allowed like air con, bigger windows, internal blinds etc etc

  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong



.

Wacky, left field, foamer idea...Is the driving compartment of DP13 a total loss as per the rest of it? If not maybe they could purchase that and build a DP outline short wheelbase car?

"Floody"

From what i read and been told, DP13 is a heritage loco, meaning it can't be shortened at all. Also i have heard it has to be rebuilt to per original look, but certain mods are allowed like air con, bigger windows, internal blinds etc etc

"Z1NorthernProgress2110"
Sorry to tell you this, but DP13 is anything but a heritage loco.

DP13 is a railcar, it used to look this:


And now it looks like this:


Further information: http://www.railtasmania.com/loco/loco.php?id=dp13


DP13s sisters, DP28 & 29 now live at Bellarine Railway, and I believe DP22 is at the Don River Railway.

  Z1NorthernProgress2110 Chief Commissioner

Location: Burnie, Tasmania
If you understand the heritage laws here in Tassie, you would know. You don't. DP13 and DP14 are heritage railcars, only certain mods are allowed.
  12CSVT Chief Commissioner

Location: Drowning in accreditation red tape!



If you understand the heritage laws here in Tassie, you would know. You don't. DP13 and DP14 are heritage railcars, only certain mods are allowed.

"Z1NorthernProgress2110"


First I've heard of it! I wasn't aware that ANY rail vehicle in Tasmania was heritage listed (even steam). Hence any rail vehicle can be removed from the state and radically modified, like the 'V' at Puffing Billy and the '10' at Walhalla.

There were attempts to get heritage listing for significant locos and rolling stock some years ago (as significant movable industrial heritage), to stop them being taken out of the state (like the 'W' series trams in Victoria), but  the National Trust (now Heritage Tas. or whatever they call themselves now) weren't interested in anything other than buildings. It's even a battle to get them to recognise significant railway structures (eg. the Hobart Goods Shed) let alone rail vehicles!

Thus I would be interested to know when and how DP's 13 & 14 (which aren't even original, typical or representative - so hardly of 'heritage' value) got listed?

  Z1NorthernProgress2110 Chief Commissioner

Location: Burnie, Tasmania

From the paper work from my sources which i'm not going to disclose, listed DP13 and DP14 as heritage rollingstock. Listed what can be done, like colour schemes etc. But also lists what can't be done.

Apparently they are heritage due to being only survivors of 4 railcars built with certain hp Gardner diesel motors, 102hp. The heritage "Act" only has only been in for the last few years.

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