Casino to Murwillumbah line to remain closed

 
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
I think that its an ok question.  I think it is better to get a view on who would use it instead of whether they want one or not.  After all, lets not build something if its not going to be used sufficiently.

Though there are clear faults with the survey being voluntary, and probably at risk of being answered more by those who would use it and less by those who wouldn't.  Plus, what is the population?  They wouldn't be getting tourists who would come to the area and use it.

How many of those respondants are actually telling the truth and how many aren't actually human.
simstrain
Guarantee there's pro rail people skewing the results, who only want the trains to never use them or live nowhere near the area (aka Victoria).

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

Murwillumbah branch to be converted to rail (train) TRAIL.

Work to be done in three stages.

See https://www.railexpress.com.au/murwilumbah-to-casino-line-to-be-closed-for-rail-trail/
"WimbledonW"


Sad loss for rail, but ultimately this is a good outcome and looking forward to taking the family for a ride along it.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I know there are those on certain facebook pages that want the whole line bought back but that was just never viable or possible.

There was a recent link on nsw railways past and present fb page where a guy attempted to walk from bangalow to byron and it took him 3 days over a 6 month period. He had to take a machete to chop through the growth and yet there are still people from that area who think the rail line won't cost that much money to make operational again.

Byron council got an engineering firm to do a report on the cost and they didn't even do it properly. There report said that it should be fine and will cost the same as the solar train to operate. They never did a walk through of the line and just used a drone to take some photo's and somehow came to the conclusion it would take the same amount of money as the solar train to make operational.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I know there are those on certain facebook pages that want the whole line bought back but that was just never viable or possible.

There was a recent link on nsw railways past and present fb page where a guy attempted to walk from bangalow to byron and it took him 3 days over a 6 month period. He had to take a machete to chop through the growth and yet there are still people from that area who think the rail line won't cost that much money to make operational again.

Byron council got an engineering firm to do a report on the cost and they didn't even do it properly. There report said that it should be fine and will cost the same as the solar train to operate. They never did a walk through of the line and just used a drone to take some photo's and somehow came to the conclusion it would take the same amount of money as the solar train to make operational.
"simstrain"


5-6% of the lines sleepers were planned to be replaced in the months following the closure, that was 16 years ago. If we assume a sleeper life of 25 years for wood. At least half the sleepers need replacing by now plus likely almost every timber bridge for which there were many.

The line is of almost no relevance to a very long-term future line south from the Gold Coast, however it is a shame to be lost and to remain it needed a major upgrade well beyond a simple sleeper replacement for which the passenger loading's were simply not there although could have easily been improved upon. The line should have also been left open or reopened to Lismore, neither hard nor complicated to do.

Moving forward the bike trail should at least be popular and bring the corridor to life and I'm sure most of the businesses along the M'bah to to Ballina section will enjoy more trade in the future.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The base in a lot of the areas is going to need to be completely re done after all the trees and over growth is removed. Transport NSW quoted $900 million to re do the whole line which probably would have been to a much higher standard then what this engineering firm contracted by byron council suggested. TNSW were probably going to rebuild it to over 20TAL and the engineering firm were suggesting 10TAL which is what the byron solar train line is qualified for.

There was no acknowledgement of the fact the little 3km solar train line was anything at all like what the rest of the line would be like or how much it will cost. They just used the same number that the solar train cost which was about $300,000 per kilometre and assumed that they won't have to do anything to the existing line as the case was with the solar train section. The pro rail guys have taken this as gospel and will hear none of it from anybody suggesting this number is farcical.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The base in a lot of the areas is going to need to be completely re done after all the trees and over growth is removed. Transport NSW quoted $900 million to re do the whole line which probably would have been to a much higher standard then what this engineering firm contracted by byron council suggested. TNSW were probably going to rebuild it to over 20TAL and the engineering firm were suggesting 10TAL which is what the byron solar train line is qualified for.

There was no acknowledgement of the fact the little 3km solar train line was anything at all like what the rest of the line would be like or how much it will cost. They just used the same number that the solar train cost which was about $300,000 per kilometre and assumed that they won't have to do anything to the existing line as the case was with the solar train section. The pro rail guys have taken this as gospel and will hear none of it from anybody suggesting this number is farcical.
"simstrain"


TNSW is clearly a high cost and almost cost of building Greenfield.

Yes, the solar train probably had some of the best track on the line.

I think a realistic price is over $100M to make it fit for purpose for the XPT.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
If the alignment was going to be redesigned entirely, where would it go?  Im assuming that it would connect Tweed, Byron, Ballina and Lismore at least (maybe Casino, Mwbah is probably not part of this), but could the track be laid in an entirely different way to make a better/faster route entirely?  Id assume that this would be passenger only as there isnt much freight on the line.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
If the alignment was going to be redesigned entirely, where would it go?  Im assuming that it would connect Tweed, Byron, Ballina and Lismore at least (maybe Casino, Mwbah is probably not part of this), but could the track be laid in an entirely different way to make a better/faster route entirely?  Id assume that this would be passenger only as there isnt much freight on the line.
james.au
Leave out Mur'bah ans you will loose alot of support for it. I think the old route in general was ok, but its track and bridge condition did no favors to the timetable. Curve ease and build a modern track and bed and you probably achieve +100km/h running over most of it.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

your not getting 100km/h on that alignment RTT. The XPT never travelled that fast along that corridor.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The Elephant In the room Is there Is no funding commitments from ether side of Government to restore the Casino - Murwillumbah railway to operating condition, but there Is funding (from various sources) to convert the old railway formation Into a rail trail.

The motion of building a trail beside the old railway Is just not feasible In the and around Northern Rivers Region terrain.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The Elephant In the room Is there Is no funding commitments from ether side of Government to restore the Casino - Murwillumbah railway to operating condition, but there Is funding (from various sources) to convert the old railway formation Into a rail trail.

The motion of building a trail beside the old railway Is just not feasible In the and around Northern Rivers Region terrain.
Nightfire

Yes this is true although the section from the solar train to mullumbimby is quite viable to extend the solar train.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
your not getting 100km/h on that alignment RTT. The XPT never travelled that fast along that corridor.
simstrain
Might be worth going back to read what I said.

If you put a dirt road on a freeway alignment you will never get freeway speeds.
- Curve ease
- proper ballast
- proper track
Amazing what might happen
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

your not getting 100km/h on that alignment RTT. The XPT never travelled that fast along that corridor.
Might be worth going back to read what I said.

If you put a dirt road on a freeway alignment you will never get freeway speeds.
- Curve ease
- proper ballast
- proper track
Amazing what might happen
RTT_Rules

I agree that any new line will take a completely different route but the local pro rail people are looking at it to connect local villages and to relieve the parking issues in byron from Mullumbimby, Murwillumbah and Lismore rather then being an all singing all dancing high speed line connection to the gold coast that we think about on here.

My issue with the pro rail people is that they think it can be done for almost no money because of what the solar train company achieved. They refuse to acknowledge how bad the rest of the line is along most of the alignment where it has just been grown over or through and think the can just cut this down and all will be fine. They are even talking about running hi-rail vehicles as passenger services.

They think it will only cost the same amount per kilometre as the solar train line but refuse to recognise that was the best quality track left on the alignment and didn't require any major work except to a few sleepers and a bridge. They also have no idea of what rolling stock they could run and just keep pointing to the 620 class and don't seem to realise they are going to need more then 1 train if they want to run the services they are talking about which will require more track to be laid as well.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
your not getting 100km/h on that alignment RTT. The XPT never travelled that fast along that corridor.
Might be worth going back to read what I said.

If you put a dirt road on a freeway alignment you will never get freeway speeds.
- Curve ease
- proper ballast
- proper track
Amazing what might happen

I agree that any new line will take a completely different route but the local pro rail people are looking at it to connect local villages and to relieve the parking issues in byron from Mullumbimby, Murwillumbah and Lismore rather then being an all singing all dancing high speed line connection to the gold coast that we think about on here.

My issue with the pro rail people is that they think it can be done for almost no money because of what the solar train company achieved. They refuse to acknowledge how bad the rest of the line is along most of the alignment where it has just been grown over or through and think the can just cut this down and all will be fine. They are even talking about running hi-rail vehicles as passenger services.

They think it will only cost the same amount per kilometre as the solar train line but refuse to recognise that was the best quality track left on the alignment and didn't require any major work except to a few sleepers and a bridge. They also have no idea of what rolling stock they could run and just keep pointing to the 620 class and don't seem to realise they are going to need more then 1 train if they want to run the services they are talking about which will require more track to be laid as well.
simstrain
Yes, it will take up to $1B to get a viable RPT service running from Casino to Coolingatta, but the rate of return is so low that I'm sure the NSW govt has better things to do.

As I've said before, the line should have remained open to Lismore.

Beyond that it gets down to who is willing to cough up the most doh! If a heritage society wants a section of the line, they need to cough the money and after 16 years, they haven't (I would have loved to see someone have a go) and unlikely to do so.  A gang's car self drive operation I'm sure would be maybe viable. Steamer or other HR, very much unlikely.

So this just leaves us with rail trial as the most likely outcome, however you can still have a 1.5km section between two LX of mostly double track around the Mull'bah yard for gangers bikes.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Aside from the small solar train portion there really isn't any chance this line is going to be reactivated. Unlike on Sydney's roads an old rail line is a perfect place for cyclists and the uptick in electric bike use can make those distances go by very quickly. It will separate them from cars and also connect other cycling trails they have in the byron area.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The Elephant In the room Is there Is no funding commitments from ether side of Government to restore the Casino - Murwillumbah railway to operating condition, but there Is funding (from various sources) to convert the old railway formation Into a rail trail.

The motion of building a trail beside the old railway Is just not feasible In the and around Northern Rivers Region terrain.

Yes this is true although the section from the solar train to mullumbimby is quite viable to extend the solar train.
simstrain
That all depends on If there Is forthcoming funding to restore that section and funding to keep a tourist train running day In day out.
I can't see Transport for NSW coming to the party ?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The Elephant In the room Is there Is no funding commitments from ether side of Government to restore the Casino - Murwillumbah railway to operating condition, but there Is funding (from various sources) to convert the old railway formation Into a rail trail.

The motion of building a trail beside the old railway Is just not feasible In the and around Northern Rivers Region terrain.

Yes this is true although the section from the solar train to mullumbimby is quite viable to extend the solar train.
That all depends on If there Is forthcoming funding to restore that section and funding to keep a tourist train running day In day out.
I can't see Transport for NSW coming to the party ?
Nightfire
Only a few km, so if the sleepers are half decent then not a big ticket item and the whole solar train project seems to be  financially sustainable, so its not a huge outlay and likely to get a reasonable return to the community.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

That all depends on If there Is forthcoming funding to restore that section and funding to keep a tourist train running day In day out.
I can't see Transport for NSW coming to the party ?
Nightfire

Solar train makes money or breaks even at best and is it's own company running the line on lease from TNSW. TNSW could provide a lease to the byron solar company for the line to mullumbimby and this part of the line is also relatively flat and in good condition.

It didn't require a significant amount of money to get operational because it was on the best 3km's on the old line and it generates all it's own electricity and is carbon negative as it puts a significant amount of electricity back in to the grid. For a tourist train it already operates quite frequently.

The problem going forward will be to find another relatively light weight train to run from the north beach station to Mullumbimby. Maybe they could hit up dorrigo for a set or 2 of their idle rail motors.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
That all depends on If there Is forthcoming funding to restore that section and funding to keep a tourist train running day In day out.
I can't see Transport for NSW coming to the party ?

Solar train makes money or breaks even at best and is it's own company running the line on lease from TNSW. TNSW could provide a lease to the byron solar company for the line to mullumbimby and this part of the line is also relatively flat and in good condition.

It didn't require a significant amount of money to get operational because it was on the best 3km's on the old line and it generates all it's own electricity and is carbon negative as it puts a significant amount of electricity back in to the grid. For a tourist train it already operates quite frequently.

The problem going forward will be to find another relatively light weight train to run from the north beach station to Mullumbimby. Maybe they could hit up dorrigo for a set or 2 of their idle rail motors.
simstrain
Its what 12-14km extra distance, do they need another train?

There are a number of trains being scrapped in Sydney, wouldn't be hard to get two cars from there if there are no 620/720 available. 2 car V-set or S-set anyone?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

yeah they will if they want to keep the current timetable operating. Remember the solar train is not that fast. It only averages 18km/h
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
yeah they will if they want to keep the current timetable operating. Remember the solar train is not that fast. It only averages 18km/h
simstrain
Mmm, me doesn't think a train that takes nearly 1h to travel to Mull'iby is going to be popular or a viable alternative to travel.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
yeah they will if they want to keep the current timetable operating. Remember the solar train is not that fast. It only averages 18km/h
Mmm, me doesn't think a train that takes nearly 1h to travel to Mull'iby is going to be popular or a viable alternative to travel.
RTT_Rules
It still has its diesel motors - im sure the 18kmh is just for show, and because it doesnt need to go any faster in its current role.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
yeah they will if they want to keep the current timetable operating. Remember the solar train is not that fast. It only averages 18km/h
Mmm, me doesn't think a train that takes nearly 1h to travel to Mull'iby is going to be popular or a viable alternative to travel.
It still has its diesel motors - im sure the 18kmh is just for show, and because it doesnt need to go any faster in its current role.
james.au
The unvaccinated hippy brigade up that way won't want to support it if they hear the old clanger bashing away.

I don't know how the setup is on this thing, but the roof has 40m2 of suitable angle and at 150W/m2, this is only 6kW or 42 kWh a day in winter, up to 60 kW in summer per car.

A 80-100kW motor is likely more than enough to get it moving, but it will need to have its battery boosted on arrival to each station like the Newcastle tram.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
yeah they will if they want to keep the current timetable operating. Remember the solar train is not that fast. It only averages 18km/h
Mmm, me doesn't think a train that takes nearly 1h to travel to Mull'iby is going to be popular or a viable alternative to travel.
It still has its diesel motors - im sure the 18kmh is just for show, and because it doesnt need to go any faster in its current role.
The unvaccinated hippy brigade up that way won't want to support it if they hear the old clanger bashing away.

I don't know how the setup is on this thing, but the roof has 40m2 of suitable angle and at 150W/m2, this is only 6kW or 42 kWh a day in winter, up to 60 kW in summer per car.

A 80-100kW motor is likely more than enough to get it moving, but it will need to have its battery boosted on arrival to each station like the Newcastle tram.

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