Dets to be removed from Trains next month

 
  Goose Chief Train Controller

And yet they say that TCSC's are not reliable....
FullSeries
That's correct.

That's why train techs are not allowed to use them.

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  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
...
Yeah. The risks to crew in placing detonators on the line are there, but they are not that great. In most cases you have the cess to walk in. You only have to be in the danger zone for a few seconds per detonator. If you're walking ahead to protect an adjacent line and there is no cess available, your own train will provide protection from behind on the way. There is also usually the six foot to dive into if necessary. Not pleasant but it works. Obviously if the OHW is down that would complicate things, but it could also stop any other electric train from approaching. The crew need to be trained to make the good decisions under the circumstances.

In any case, the new instructions still require crew to get down on the track with red flags and presumably track circuit clips if the Signaller can't provide protection, so the risks are still there. Applying the clips is similar to placing detonators.
HeadShunt

Now it does appear that some risk decisions are OK when they support a pro-DETS stand. Yet RCs risk management in determining the use of DETS is flawed.

Guess we need to see which decision making is tested in court first. Will we still be questioning the call in 10 years anyway?
  HeadShunt Chief Train Controller

Now it does appear that some risk decisions are OK when they support a pro-DETS stand.
cootanee
I'm not familiar with any recent risk decision that supports a "pro-DETS stand"...
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
I'm not familiar with any recent risk decision that supports a "pro-DETS stand"...
HeadShunt
Re. "The risks to crew in placing detonators on the line are there, but they are not that great. "

Sorry I am under the impression that this seemed consistent with a retention of DETS position.

Can we assume that Railcorp may have come to the conclusion that "The risks to trains not having DETS are there, but they are not that great. "
  HeadShunt Chief Train Controller

Sorry I am under the impression that this seemed consistent with a retention of DETS position.
cootanee
Well derr.... but anyway that's not a risk decision as such. Through the use of words like "not that great" I'd say it's a fairly casual observation; my position had already been stated in detail. If they ruled in favour of keeping or adding safety measures rather than removing them, that would really get my attention. But come to think of it, they seem to have ruled in favour of keeping detonators for trains that go outside the metropolitan area, at least for now (something that I don't think was made clear when the newspaper article was published), and I wonder what the official rationale was. Maybe there was an official decision made on that, too.


Can we assume that Railcorp may have come to the conclusion that "The risks to trains not having DETS are there, but they are not that great. "
cootanee
I believe it would be fair to assume that RailCorp came to that conclusion, as we discussed at length in earlier posts during which our respective views on the matter were laid out quite clearly. Wink
  Piston Train Controller

ARTC...



Exception to ARTC Network Rule ANTR 400


and Procedure ANPR 720


Effective from 0001 hours Wednesday 12 June 2012 until further notice, in exception to Network Rule ANTR 400 - Protecting Trains and Network Procedure ANPR 720 - Protecting Trains, the use of detonators (Railway Track Signals) when protecting an ARTC obstructed line will no longer be required by RailCorp train crews operating Electric Rollingstock on the RailCorp Metropolitan Network adjacent to the ARTC Metropolitan Freight Network (MFN) and Southern Sydney Freight Line (SSFL).

RailCorp have removed the mandatory requirement to carry detonators (Railway Track Signals) on Electric Rollingstock in the RailCorp Metropolitan Network, and it will not be possible for RailCorp train crews to protect an obstructed line as detailed in ARTC Network Rule ANTR 400 Protecting Trains and Procedure ANPR 720 Protecting trains.
...


http://extranet.artc.com.au/docman/DocManFiles/DocTypes/SAFE/Files/2-1920.PDF?3433161
cootanee
Its all well and good for ARTC to issue this Safe Notice 2 -1920 regarding the non use of dets, but to say it happened in 2012 is completely wrong. I think it was 2013 it happened.

For the sake of correctness maybe ARTC should correct this error and set the record straight or it will confuse researchers in the future as to when it all happened. Or maybe they should proof read more thoroughly before issuing??

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