Blue tea-shirts and blue ties

 
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
On IIRC 4 June, there was an article in the Telegraph about Labor supporters and candidates weariing logo-less blue tea-shirts so that they look like Liberals and so mislead voters into voting for them.

Today the blue tea-shirt rort extended in Gillard's "BlueTie" address.

See: http://www.skynews.com.au/national/article.aspx?id=879166

Gillard denigrated Liberals as men wearing blue ties, with no women in leading position.

Presumably Deputy Liberal leader Julie Bishop is a transvestite wearing dresses, pearls and earrings, and as a man-in-drag, as she wasn't mentioned at all.

Strangly, a few ALP blokes such as were wearing blue ties; presumably to fool voters that they are Liberals.

Gillard warned that Abbott would abolish abortion, though the voters may well abort her on Sep 14.

Distracting from Gillard's attempt today to sell her Education Revolution II was a rude/lewd menu at a Liberal fundraiser in March describing Gillard is a sexist way.

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  HeadShunt Chief Train Controller

On IIRC 4 June, there was an article in the Telegraph about Labor supporters and candidates weariing logo-less blue tea-shirts so that they look like Liberals and so mislead voters into voting for them.

Today the blue tea-shirt rort extended in Gillard's "BlueTie" address.

Gillard denigrated Liberals as men wearing blue ties, with no women in leading position.

Strangly, a few ALP blokes such as were wearing blue ties; presumably to fool voters that they are Liberals.
awsgc24
This sort of thing happened at the last NSW election, with some ALP posters covered in green and only a tiny "Labor" in one corner.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
...
Deputy Liberal leader Julie Bishop ...wasn't mentioned at all.

...
awsgc24

Apparently they try and avoid putting her in front of the media... foreign affairs must be the equivalent of a kitchen.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
a man-in-drag
awsgc24
I saw one of those in our local shopping centre today. Made Julie look quite attractive...
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
What I don't like about Julia is she constantly divides and insults the community with her condescending talk.  Her attitude seems to be that the public are there to serve her, not the other way around.

That John economics was a scream!
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Here are some of the dodgy men wearing blue ties... whoops, they are all Labour Party ministers. Rolling Eyes

  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
On IIRC 4 June, there was an article in the Telegraph about Labor supporters and candidates weariing logo-less blue tea-shirts so that they look like Liberals and so mislead voters into voting for them.

Today the blue tea-shirt rort extended in Gillard's "BlueTie" address.

See: http://www.skynews.com.au/national/article.aspx?id=879166

Gillard denigrated Liberals as men wearing blue ties, with no women in leading position.

Presumably Deputy Liberal leader Julie Bishop is a transvestite wearing dresses, pearls and earrings, and as a man-in-drag, as she wasn't mentioned at all.

Strangly, a few ALP blokes such as were wearing blue ties; presumably to fool voters that they are Liberals.

Gillard warned that Abbott would abolish abortion, though the voters may well abort her on Sep 14.

Distracting from Gillard's attempt today to sell her Education Revolution II was a rude/lewd menu at a Liberal fundraiser in March describing Gillard is a sexist way.
"awsgc24"

Clearly I am no fan Labor and Gillard, but I do have to back her slightly on this one, lots are banging on about her not mentioning Julie Bishop as being deputy leader. The problem is, Gillard was mostly right, after the election it is more likely than not that Abbott will be PM and Warren Truss will be his Deputy, Julie Bishop is most likely to be the Foreign Minister.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Apparently they try and avoid putting her in front of the media... foreign affairs must be the equivalent of a kitchen.
"cootanee"

Joe Hockey aside, Julie Bishop is probably one of the most rolled out Shadow Ministers for media events.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Here are some of the dodgy men wearing blue ties... whoops, they are all Labour Party ministers. Rolling Eyes

"Bogong"

Kevin Rudd out and about today rocking it out in western Sydney with a blue tie - Genius! Then there was the photo of the first bloke in a blue tie, gold!
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Joe Hockey aside, Julie Bishop is probably one of the most rolled out Shadow Ministers for media events.
Aaron

Apparently as long as she doesn't say too much (foot in mouth - something the Nats are well aware of). Mind you displaying her death stare on the chaser was priceless.

Most people probably think Joe's the deputy anyway.

As for Julia, she is playing this all wrong. Mind you after three years of negative Abbott no surprise that you'll see three months of a very negative Gillard.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
Apparently as long as she doesn't say too much (foot in mouth - something the Nats are well aware of). Mind you displaying her death stare on the chaser was priceless.

Most people probably think Joe's the deputy anyway.

As for Julia, she is playing this all wrong. Mind you after three years of negative Abbott no surprise that you'll see three months of a very negative Gillard.
cootanee

Bit of a contradiction there coot.  It's a bit hard for anyone to positive considering how negative this Government is and has been.

Isn't there bigger fish to fry than Julia's affirmative action, considering the mess the country is in?
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Bit of a contradiction there coot.  It's a bit hard for anyone to positive considering how negative this Government is and has been.

Isn't there bigger fish to fry than Julia's affirmative action, considering the mess the country is in?
2301

Who say's the country's a mess Rolling Eyes.

It's doing what it always does and that's following the bouncing globe e.g US markets fell last night - ours fell today. Neither side changes that.

The politics is a mess and Labor will do it's penance for that. Then you get to slag off about the next opposition leader instead.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Who say's the country's a mess Rolling Eyes.
cootanee
Anyone vaguely smart enough to realise the situation we're in... You've been to Craig Emmerson school haven't you?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Nothing much will change after Sept 14th - the only clear indication we have about an Abbott government is that they want immediate budget surpluses which implies deep cutting... from where?  We'll just have to wait and see.

Abbott is hoping to be Johnny Howard Mark 2 but I strongly suspect the economic tide will soon start running strongly against the government (whoever is in power) - we are in for a lot of pain with the once-in-a-century mining boom over.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
Who say's the country's a mess Rolling Eyes.

It's doing what it always does and that's following the bouncing globe e.g US markets fell last night - ours fell today. Neither side changes that.

The politics is a mess and Labor will do it's penance for that. Then you get to slag off about the next opposition leader instead.
cootanee

What about the uncontrolled immigration to start with?  It's costing the country a fortune now with no end in sight - all Jules and the Labor party can do is shrug their shoulders and go oh well.



What about the rising debt and all the money p#$$ed up against the wall?

What about all the far out schemes that the country can't afford and which they know will never see the light of day?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
On the topic of boat people, we've had a lot of slogans from the coalition but very little detail so it's hard to know if they will 'stop the boats' or just forget about it once in office.  It concerns me because Abbott appears to be coasting in on the implosion of the Labor Party and I actually want to know what they are going to do rather than just be told 'trust Tony'.

Boat people are a terrible dilemma because on the one hand they are usually legitimately in fear of their lives which is why they take a chance on a leaky boat to Australia.  On the other hand, these people are putting a terrible strain on the welfare system, especially in Sydney and Melbourne where they mostly want to settle.  We aren't looking after the poor and disadvantaged in these cities as it is - people on bridging visas living in the community magnify that problem, particularly affordable housing (because there is none).
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
On the topic of boat people, we've had a lot of slogans from the coalition but very little detail so it's hard to know if they will 'stop the boats' or just forget about it once in office.  It concerns me because Abbott appears to be coasting in on the implosion of the Labor Party and I actually want to know what they are going to do rather than just be told 'trust Tony'.

Boat people are a terrible dilemma because on the one hand they are usually legitimately in fear of their lives which is why they take a chance on a leaky boat to Australia.  On the other hand, these people are putting a terrible strain on the welfare system, especially in Sydney and Melbourne where they mostly want to settle.  We aren't looking after the poor and disadvantaged in these cities as it is - people on bridging visas living in the community magnify that problem, particularly affordable housing (because there is none).
don_dunstan

Do you really think most of these people are legitimately in fear of their lives or just the ones wealthy enough to pick the best country in the world to be on welfare?

Their modus operandi would suggest that the latter might be the case.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
I just listened to Julia's speech about blue ties, talk about divisive.  A leader is suppose unite people, especially around election time.

It's starting to become obvious that Julia hates men or is she mentally unbalanced?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Do you really think most of these people are legitimately in fear of their lives or just the ones wealthy enough to pick the best country in the world to be on welfare?

Their modus operandi would suggest that the latter might be the case.
2301

I have personal experience of working with refugees in the last 12 months so I can speak from experience on this topic.  I don't think welfare has anything to do with the selection of Australia for most (but not all as I'll explain in a moment).

People like Somalis and Afghanis can tell you horrible stories of escaping persecution or war and waiting for years in refugee camps for resettlement.  Boat people on the other hand have usually paid $20,000+ to get here so either they or their families have money to begin with and yes, I'm not sure that their situations are as bad.  Iranians in particular seem to be seeking a better life rather than fleeing persecution.

I worked a lot with a few Iranian people earlier last year and one lady in particular told me her story.  She said that she was quite a wealthy, educated person in Iran but had paid for a place on a boat because she had nieces and a sister in Melbourne and wanted to get out because her family had been in trouble with the political police.  She got quite a shock when she arrived here as she had no money and her sister refused to help her - apparently her sister managed to get her money out of Iran but she still refused to help because she had 'problems of her own'.  I am fairly sure that Iranians were actively recruited by people smugglers on the promise of "Australia has free housing and free welfare" and then they are totally surprised to find that housing in particular is non-existent or that they must spend most of their dole on rent.  Most Iranians I've met are really shocked to find there's no such thing as free government housing and that they have to compete in the private rental market with everyone else; one Iranian I worked with got really aggressive because I think he felt he'd been gypped (too bad).

My issue with this is that we aren't looking after the Australians who are poor, usually mentally ill, and homeless and yet more and more poor people come into Melbourne every day off boats and from refugee camps.  You can't deny that it making more hardship for the people we have here who we already can't help because there's (almost) no such thing as public housing any longer, refugees are competing with Aussies for whatever is left.  It's manifestly unfair to the disadvantaged people we have here to import more and more disadvantaged, poor people.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
....

It's starting to become obvious that Julia hates men or is she mentally unbalanced?
2301

Just desperate because nothing's working.  She doesn't want to go down in history the same way Anna Bligh did - the woman that totally destroyed Labor's hope of re-election for a generation.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
Don, Australia will never be able to look after everyone in the world.  It seems to be lately so many people believe Australia should be a benevolent society for the rest of the world with this international globalist attitude, where they think a small economy like Australia can support everyone else-this will be to our own detriment. It just can't be done unless we either dramatically increase taxes or curtail expenditure for our own, which I think would not go down to well with the majority of people.

The refugee cause may be a noble cause to the refugee advocates, but I think the issue and a lot of these people's judgement is very clouded to say the least.  The line will have to drawn somewhere as I think people and human nature are more cunning than what a lot of the advocates like to make out by using the lost puppy dog syndrome at every instance to typify all of these people.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
I have personal experience of working with refugees in the last 12 months so I can speak from experience on this topic.  I don't think welfare has anything to do with the selection of Australia for most (but not all as I'll explain in a moment).

People like Somalis and Afghanis can tell you horrible stories of escaping persecution or war and waiting for years in refugee camps for resettlement.  Boat people on the other hand have usually paid $20,000+ to get here so either they or their families have money to begin with and yes, I'm not sure that their situations are as bad.  Iranians in particular seem to be seeking a better life rather than fleeing persecution.

I worked a lot with a few Iranian people earlier last year and one lady in particular told me her story.  She said that she was quite a wealthy, educated person in Iran but had paid for a place on a boat because she had nieces and a sister in Melbourne and wanted to get out because her family had been in trouble with the political police.  She got quite a shock when she arrived here as she had no money and her sister refused to help her - apparently her sister managed to get her money out of Iran but she still refused to help because she had 'problems of her own'.  I am fairly sure that Iranians were actively recruited by people smugglers on the promise of "Australia has free housing and free welfare" and then they are totally surprised to find that housing in particular is non-existent or that they must spend most of their dole on rent.  Most Iranians I've met are really shocked to find there's no such thing as free government housing and that they have to compete in the private rental market with everyone else; one Iranian I worked with got really aggressive because I think he felt he'd been gypped (too bad).

My issue with this is that we aren't looking after the Australians who are poor, usually mentally ill, and homeless and yet more and more poor people come into Melbourne every day off boats and from refugee camps.  You can't deny that it making more hardship for the people we have here who we already can't help because there's (almost) no such thing as public housing any longer, refugees are competing with Aussies for whatever is left.  It's manifestly unfair to the disadvantaged people we have here to import more and more disadvantaged, poor people.
don_dunstan

Did any of these people have their documentation, passports, visa, family photo albums, whatever? All of these things can of course be faked using br*bes.

On the other hand, the Law of the Sea requires boat people for safety reasons to jetison their useless docos.

FYI:

Jetsam: stuff thown overboard to save ship from sinking, as per Captain Cook after hitting Great Barrier Reef.

Flotsam: stuff that floats off sinking/sunken ship.

Some time ago, Gillard promised to "break the people smuggler's model". Really?

Well, all that Brown/Rudd/Milne/Gillard did was to break the brakes of the people smuggler's model.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Who knows with regards to someone's actual story - you meet lots of Aussies who tell total bullsh*t stories too.

The overall cost of looking after these people properly in Australia wouldn't be anything like the expense of doing so in places like France or Italy where there's a lot more people arriving to claim asylum by land.  I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who is desperate enough to come here on a boat but they need to understand before they get here that life being poor here is extremely tough, just as tough as it is in many other places on the globe - that's mostly on account of our stupidly expensive housing, our big cities being in the top ten most expensive in the world.

Dumping them in the community with detention visas (or whatever they are) is very inhumane, they should at least let them work so they can support themselves and get on the path to being good Australians.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
Who knows with regards to someone's actual story - you meet lots of Aussies who tell total bullsh*t stories too.

The overall cost of looking after these people properly in Australia wouldn't be anything like the expense of doing so in places like France or Italy where there's a lot more people arriving to claim asylum by land.  I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who is desperate enough to come here on a boat but they need to understand before they get here that life being poor here is extremely tough, just as tough as it is in many other places on the globe - that's mostly on account of our stupidly expensive housing, our big cities being in the top ten most expensive in the world.

Dumping them in the community with detention visas (or whatever they are) is very inhumane, they should at least let them work so they can support themselves and get on the path to being good Australians.
don_dunstan

One thing I am dead against is allowing people that come into the country this way the right to work.  What this will do is undercut pay and conditions for everyone working by having a cheap pool of unskilled labour on tap.

And also, is it fair on our youth and other disadvantaged people in the country already looking for work in the labour market to have to compete with people who enter the country without any documentation?  To me, that is akin to just getting rid of our sovereign borders and just allowing anyone who wants to come here the same rights as citizens.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
Who knows with regards to someone's actual story - you meet lots of Aussies who tell total bullsh*t stories too.

The overall cost of looking after these people properly in Australia wouldn't be anything like the expense of doing so in places like France or Italy where there's a lot more people arriving to claim asylum by land.  I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who is desperate enough to come here on a boat but they need to understand before they get here that life being poor here is extremely tough, just as tough as it is in many other places on the globe - that's mostly on account of our stupidly expensive housing, our big cities being in the top ten most expensive in the world.

Dumping them in the community with detention visas (or whatever they are) is very inhumane, they should at least let them work so they can support themselves and get on the path to being good Australians.
don_dunstan

Just another thing, you say that these people are desperate because they come here by boat, but what I can't understand with this line of thinking is that these people are crossing multiple borders by multiple modes of transport probably.  How can a comparison be drawn between being desperate and coming here on a boat when what most people would call desperate would be say someone who flees with absolutely no means to help themselves and would be lucky to make it across one border.

I kind of think these people are more country shoppers than anything else because their paying quite a lot of money in their terms and have the ability to do so.  They are also being deceptive and cunning too by the way they are entering Australia and manipulating the Government to make the circumstances suit themselves - don't you think?

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