A-City trains

 
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

It was observed that when the data in the link below was released to these pages that one thing missing was the mass of the units.

See http://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/91975/2013_02_14_Adelaide_EMU_-_A-city_Factsheet.pdf


I for one hope the mass is closer to 120 tonnes; even that is too much considering the trains do not share tracks with heavy rail, except the Stonie.

A stainless steel car with air con and running gear should weigh about 40 tonnes (eg 2000 class trailer). Three cars totals 120 tonnes. Don't tell me the pantograph, switchgear, transformer, traction drives and traction motors weigh 65 tonnes


Regards
Ian

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  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Could it be the higher figure was just an estimate pulled out of the air. Because until a set is fully finished and weighed any attempt at actual weight is really only a guess on someones part, unless you weigh everything before assembly which might take too long to do. So fully assemble a car and weigh it after does sound reasonable. So that might mean that they will have to be weighed after fitting out at Seaford to get a precise figure for it. It could also explain the reason it was left of that Pdf as well. Just an assumption here nothing more.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Modern CAD dictates that we have a very good assumptions leading to an accurate predicted weight long before the item is constructed. If only CAD allowed us a better guess at wait...
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
Just did a wikki search (that I should have done yesterday) Perth's B cars are 120 tonnes for a 3 car set allowing for fact Adelaide cars will be slightly wider factor in weight increase of less than 5 tonnes.
The traction gear will be virtually identical.
  Scooter_Guy Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA. Suburb: Redwood Park
Arrival of the first train should be next month!
The 3000 class railcars would now act as 'quiet carriages' if they were coupled with the new trains!
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Arrival of the first train should be next month!
The 3000 class railcars would now act as 'quiet carriages' if they were coupled with the new trains!
Scooter_Guy

I thought they were arriving this month. Well more to the point I thought they were arriving next week. Its going to look really stupid on their part if they keep delaying the arrival of the trains as it will just keep delaying them coming into service on the line
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Arrival of the first train should be next month!
Scooter_Guy
Yeah right. After so many delays to date (March was reported on here, then April, and early June was reported to the Parliament) I'll believe it when I see it.
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
For those here that insist on bagging any improvements, delays etc with Adelaide Metro, have you any experience in the real world of railway operations and delays in delivery??
I know some here do, or have professional qualifications to comment with the benefit of that knowledge, some others it may pay to read and take note at times!!
Delays happen with near every delivery, you only have to look to Sydney to see how big delays can be, can anyone remember the Millenium cars, scheduled for 2000, commenced operation 2002, or maybe the rebuild program for the former CL/AL locos at Morrrison Knudsen?
Our A cars are a brand new design, for which all the jigs etc have to be built, and issues arising from design shortcomings/conflicts have to be addressed, it far easier to do this at Dandenong than get them here and have to put them back on a truck to send them back.
Finally I doubt there is any "juice" in overhead here yet so they couldn't be tested even if they where here!!
Now I will put on my safety helmet and duck to dodge incoming rocks and knives.....
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

For those here that insist on bagging any improvements, delays etc with Adelaide Metro, have you any experience in the real world of railway operations and delays in delivery??
I know some here do, or have professional qualifications to comment with the benefit of that knowledge, some others it may pay to read and take note at times!!
Delays happen with near every delivery, you only have to look to Sydney to see how big delays can be, can anyone remember the Millenium cars, scheduled for 2000, commenced operation 2002, or maybe the rebuild program for the former CL/AL locos at Morrrison Knudsen?
Our A cars are a brand new design, for which all the jigs etc have to be built, and issues arising from design shortcomings/conflicts have to be addressed, it far easier to do this at Dandenong than get them here and have to put them back on a truck to send them back.
Finally I doubt there is any "juice" in overhead here yet so they couldn't be tested even if they where here!!
Now I will put on my safety helmet and duck to dodge incoming rocks and knives.....
alcoworldseries
Most would understand that delays can happen but that doesn't mean they are acceptable. Delays have been happening in the rolling stock manufacturing business in Oz for a long time, I recall Clyde with the delivery of the 740/L steamers. The problem is often because here it is an assembly operation  and JIT supply may work for the auto industry but not for the slower build of rail vehicles with components sourced from diverse places internationally.

I doubt the state government is pushing for delivery because that means payment and strains the cash flow of treasury. Some of the problem will also be client initiated design changes and to push delivery means counted delay claims. Defence work is notorious for this.

As for turning on the Juice, who knows?

For contract milestones it may well have been turned on but there is still work to do so it would then be better turned off again and the job finished.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
It's a really great thing that these trains are being built in Australia, for a while there it looked like we were going to lose all our expertise and facilities when Melbourne and Sydney started ordering from overseas.  As Ian says, a bit of a delay is always to be expected for a big project like this.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

Last I heard, the first set arrives later this month with the three cars arriving on three separate days over about a week. We look forward to advance warning from the watchers at the despatch point.
  1S47 Assistant Commissioner

Location: On the Down Fast
Last I heard, the first set arrives later this month with the three cars arriving on three separate days over about a week. We look forward to advance warning from the watchers at the despatch point.
"62440"


Up until recently, I was going to make a prediction that the first big splash we would see on TV & in the media with the A-City trains would be when Julia Gillard Kevin Rudd, Anthony Albanese (Federal Transport Minister) and Amanda Rishworth (local Federal Member in marginal seat of Kingston) "drove" a new EMU under the wires from Seaford to Noarlunga as a pre-election stunt.  Remember the Federal Govt chipped in a large proportion of the cash for the Seaford extension & Noarlunga electrification.

With likely delivery and commissioning schedule for the electric trains, it could be this will no-longer be possible.

If I were Kevin Rudd, I'd be hanging on in The Lodge until November, just so I get the chance to launch the new trains.  (He used to be Kevin07, then Kevin24/7, then Kevin747.  Now he could be Kevin25kV)
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
From the latest edition of the NRM Catchpoint magazine and I quote, " The first car of the first new 4000 series was scheduled to arrive at Seaford in the second week of July". The rest will be progressively delivered over a period of 12 months at an average of  2 set's each month.
  Halo Chief Train Controller

I hear the first one is due Friday, with another module due each day till all three parts arrive.
  cmjl Station Master

Location: Adelaide
Does anyone know the route that the modules will be taking to get them to seaford?
  rail_road_runner Station Staff

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
THE first of 22 new electric trains will arrive in Adelaide this week ahead of electrified services starting on the Seaford line next year.
The Bombardier A-City 4000 train will make the journey from the company's Dandenong factory to Adelaide by road and is expected to arrive on Friday. It will be the state's first new passenger train in about 20 years.
Once here, it will be commissioned and made ready for track and driver testing over coming months.
The first electric services are expected to run on the Seaford line early next year.
Transport and Infrastructure Minister Tom Koutsantonis said the train's arrival was a landmark occasion.

FRIDAY 19/7/2013
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/first-of-22-bombardier-electric-trains-to-arrive-in-adelaide-this-week/story-fni6uo1m-1226679316286
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Does anyone know the route that the modules will be taking to get them to seaford?
cmjl

I can tell you close to Seaford Meadows.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
So much for the claims the first set would need interior fit out before they could run (despite earlier information contradicting this). Look at the photo, it even has the hanging handholds fitted.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

It certainly looks fitted out inside and out.

It way be a very good computer graphics but I think it would be prudent to fully fit out the first units in the factory to get bugs sorted out.

I am sure some under-gear will need to get stripped off for transport; not that there appears to be much on the unit in the picture.

Subsequent units may get more work at Seaford but factory production schedules may have changed allowing more work to be done there.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

It is my understanding that Seaford depot is for commissioning, not for fitting out and I would expect the units to arrive in completed form, with or without bogies. There is an unloading siding, I would expect the delivery crane to lower the body on to the bogies, there are no cranes in the shed.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Do the pantographs already come installed when the trains arrive or is that done at the depot? Its something that I've wondered recently.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Do the pantographs already come installed when the trains arrive or is that done at the depot? Its something that I've wondered recently.
"Milkomeda"

My guess would be no, unless the centre cars of each unit are to be transported with some kind of hard cover over all the roof-mounted equipment.

Pantographs are one of the weakest links on an electric rail vehicle. Leaving them exposed to an errant low hanging branch on a road transport convoy would be a bit chancy, and the local crews are going to have to learn how to replace one in the field soon anyway so they may as well start with bolting on a new one from delivery.
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
And not to mention that they are very, very expensive.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
My guess would be no, unless the centre cars of each unit are to be transported with some kind of hard cover over all the roof-mounted equipment.

Pantographs are one of the weakest links on an electric rail vehicle. Leaving them exposed to an errant low hanging branch on a road transport convoy would be a bit chancy, and the local crews are going to have to learn how to replace one in the field soon anyway so they may as well start with bolting on a new one from delivery.
"justapassenger"


The trams travelled from Melbonk with the Pantographs installed, but tied down. They were driven from the unloading point (Vic Sq and later the Entertainment Centre) to Glengowrie depot after unloading
(That is, they were NOT towed!)

Does anyone know the route that the modules will be taking to get them to seaford?
"cmjl"
Route would be via the Western and Dukes Hwy (National route 8 ) then via the South Eastern Freeway. Whether they go through the metro area (Cross and South roads) or detour through the hills (Mount Barker - Meadows - Willunga) would depend on clearance for the obvious oversize load (length in particular)
  Arelex Station Staff

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