A-City trains

 
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I doubt the delivery method is the issue - rail delivery simply isn't possible so there's no other choice. If that were causing issues, you would expect Bombardier to be publicly putting pressure on the delivery contractor.

I also don't think the design is the issue - as with any design which gets evolved into the next generation there were major changes to the body and crashworthiness structures of the older B-series unit, but the high value components would all be pretty well exactly the same with the exception of certain safety systems.

I would speculate that it is due to one of two possibilities:
1. Shelving the A-City order to prioritise orders for Victoria where it's about business and not about favours for Labour's buddies which can be completed whenever they feel like it.
2. Possible supply shortages for the high value components which come from Europe (or possibly India for the bogies) as there has also been talk of Bombardier having component supply issues for their current Electrostar order. The Electrostar units are similar to ours in that the majority of the manufacturing spend is in Europe and they get assembled at a factory in the UK.

Seems a bit strange that South Australia is having trouble with the delivery schedule mainly meeting deadlines
"thewaratahtrain"
There is no evidence anywhere to suggest there was ever a schedule or deadlines, apart from the Department revoking or modifying their promises to the public as fast as they make them in the first place.

I have written to the two Independent MPs asking them to use the balance of power in the new Parliament to force a Royal Commission into the Bombardier deal and find out who was on the take. The next four years present a valuable opportunity to clean up the state, even if Bob Such resigns due to his cancer issues the Liberals will certainly win the by-election and there will still be a minority government.

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  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

It is interesting reading the speculation on these pages, the more so if you have even the smallest smattering of inside information.Laughing

Recall the issues that slowed up initial delivery and the management changes at Bombardier which were related to that fact.

Then extrapolate that to the present situation and there is some explanation of the present hiatus.

It has been reported here that 4007 will be delivered by end May 2014 with steady deliveries to follow.

If I have any disagreement with Justapax it is over the extent of the Inquiry or even Royal Commission. Its terms of reference should include the whole Seaford line build, upgrade,  electrification and signalling improvements (?). Sad

Ian
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I worked at a components supplier in Adelaide in the 1990's and we had a catastrophic failure with one of our machines that actually held up production at Holdens for a day or so - it was a very big deal at the time and our company had to pay Holden for delaying production. Driving around Elizabeth, Cavan and Wingfield last week reminded me of what a completely different world we live in now... very sad.

Anyway, J.A.P's second scenario seems the most likely one to me. If the Electrostar is also having component supply problems then it makes sense that A-City may also be having the same issue.
  thewaratahtrain Chief Train Controller

I doubt the delivery method is the issue - rail delivery simply isn't possible so there's no other choice. If that were causing issues, you would expect Bombardier to be publicly putting pressure on the delivery contractor.

I also don't think the design is the issue - as with any design which gets evolved into the next generation there were major changes to the body and crashworthiness structures of the older B-series unit, but the high value components would all be pretty well exactly the same with the exception of certain safety systems.

I would speculate that it is due to one of two possibilities:
1. Shelving the A-City order to prioritise orders for Victoria where it's about business and not about favours for Labour's buddies which can be completed whenever they feel like it.
2. Possible supply shortages for the high value components which come from Europe (or possibly India for the bogies) as there has also been talk of Bombardier having component supply issues for their current Electrostar order. The Electrostar units are similar to ours in that the majority of the manufacturing spend is in Europe and they get assembled at a factory in the UK.

There is no evidence anywhere to suggest there was ever a schedule or deadlines, apart from the Department revoking or modifying their promises to the public as fast as they make them in the first place.

I have written to the two Independent MPs asking them to use the balance of power in the new Parliament to force a Royal Commission into the Bombardier deal and find out who was on the take. The next four years present a valuable opportunity to clean up the state, even if Bob Such resigns due to his cancer issues the Liberals will certainly win the by-election and there will still be a minority government.
"justapassenger"



If their was a supply chain issue Bombardier should be making that very clear, I checked and I couldn't find anything on the class 387 in relation to a supply chain issue the class 387 also has the slopey nose cone, I didn't know rail delivery wasn't feasible for Adelaide my mistake

Bombardier could be prioritising other projects over Adelaide, Melbourne & Perth May have priority over Adelaide due to a higher volume of patronage on their respective rail networks or the simple fact that the orders for Melbourne & Perth were put in first, I believe the FLEXX bogies are manufactured in India don't know about the miTRAC traction motors I think that's in Spain, when I mentioned delivery schedule/deadline I thought DPTSI were supposed to be getting so many at a certain rate wasn't it one every 2 weeks for Adelaide? it's one every 2 months for Perth.

Seems a bit strange that Adelaide is having apparent problems but no other city which has an order from Bombardier is having problems
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I think it is just the attitude within the DPTI or whatever it is called this week. They have now proved to one and all that they do not have the required expertise and experience to keep projects going smoothly. As steam4ian said the whole seaford line upgrades and everything else has really been one balls up after another. The whole lot wants to be investigated thoroughly because there looks to be something rotten in Adelaide, but no one wants to do anything. The whole dept actually might be like this and a complete investigation into the whole dept might be warranted actually everything they are involved with of late seems to have had a lot of problems because they had too much at one time on their plates. There are projects all over the place falling apart at the seams like this!
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The Adelaide Oval project was also a DPTI project and also a major fukcup. It was supposed to cost $140 million less AND include the footbridge (which got changed to a separate $20 million project, built half as wide as the original plan, blown out to twice the cost, and it ran late) AND a North Adelaide tram extension (which didn't happen at all). If it had been done right it would have been excellent, with two excellent infrastructure projects providing their benefits every day of the week.

The Southern Expressway project seems to have gone relatively smoothly (it's the only one where there's any evidence of staging works) with the exception of the whole thing going a little slower thanks to the unprecedented difficulties associated with rebuilding a suburban grade-separated highway while keeping it open for peak traffic. The Federal Government's building of the Adelaide-Crafers Highway was a bit better, but that project had space to build a couple of temporary diversion roads to keep carrying the traffic on Mount Barker Road, one of which now serves as part of the Crafers Bikeway route.

The North-South Motorway could do with some investigation, particularly around the safety record of the contractors involved.

The Northern Expressway a few years ago went pretty well perfectly (so it should have - it was the easiest major project ever), as did the building of the Seaford line and the new stations being completed just a few weeks late despite there being no need to rush with the long Adelaide-Noarlunga shutdown approaching. There's no need to applaud the Department for that though, they were both Federal projects commissioned by the Howard and Rudd regimes.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

justapax

It doesn't matter who commissioned the projects it was DPTI which undertook them.

Ian
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Ian, as you (and others) have pointed out before, it's a lack of in-house experience that's really to blame - governments lack the capacity to enforce their own contracts or rely too much on outsiders.

How many decades since there was an upgrade of suburban lines in Adelaide full-stop?  There was no expertise on hand.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

justapax

It doesn't matter who commissioned the projects it was DPTI which undertook them.

Ian
"steam4ian"
The consistent success of Federal infrastructure projects compared with the consistent chaos of State infrastructure projects would suggest that projects with both Federal and State involvement do have some level of additional oversight and superior project management.

It's not just because the Federal projects are easy like the Northern Expressway because that's simply not the case - the last 20 years in SA has also seen Federal projects build the Adelaide-Crafers Highway with the first twin tube tunnels on the National Highway, the Port River Expressway with two opening bridges, and the Seaford railway which included the second-longest incrementally launched bridge in the world.

However, it would also seem that Federal projects without any State involvement are also doomed to fail - look at how well things went with Pink Batts and Building the Education Revolution.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
The consistent success of Federal infrastructure projects compared with the consistent chaos of State infrastructure projects would suggest that projects with both Federal and State involvement do have some level of additional oversight and superior project management.

It's not just because the Federal projects are easy like the Northern Expressway because that's simply not the case - the last 20 years in SA has also seen Federal projects build the Adelaide-Crafers Highway with the first twin tube tunnels on the National Highway, the Port River Expressway with two opening bridges, and the Seaford railway which included the second-longest incrementally launched bridge in the world.

However, it would also seem that Federal projects without any State involvement are also doomed to fail - look at how well things went with Pink Batts and Building the Education Revolution.
justapassenger

Who do you think project manages Federal Projects?

Hint: the Commonwealth Government doesn't have the capacity and relies on the states.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

I noticed they made some minor modifications for the electrics. Seems they are adjusting the horns on the electrics again railcar 4005s horn sounds pretty much exactly like a diesel train horn now also the doors no longer close after 45 seconds they remain open until the driver closes them.
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
That could be true I thought that too, my post was based on what someone from the dept said in a media report last weekend, possibly on the back of the timetable criticism. Guess it's best not to listen to the dept...
Aaron

Today there were 4 electrics in service, 4002/3/5/6 rather than the 3 I have observed up to now, presumably freeing up a diesel consist.  On looking through my observations it's back in March that I last saw 4004 in normal weekday service.  It was on the Seaford-Brighton shuttle and has been used on Footy services, but on weekdays it has been used for training.

Alex C
  Tonsley213 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Everywhere except South Kensington
Yesterday 4004 was in regular passenger service.
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
I travelled on 4004 today from Oaklands to the City
  AusArcher Beginner

I don't know how long it's been there and I haven't seen anyone comment on it in the forums. It's sitting at the end of the offloading ramp so I'd guess it's only arrived recently. 4007T at the Seaford Rail Depot today.

[img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5568/14026017067_2d19616ef3_s.jpg[/img]
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

I don't know how long it's been there and I haven't seen anyone comment on it in the forums. It's sitting at the end of the offloading ramp so I'd guess it's only arrived recently. 4007T at the Seaford Rail Depot today.

[img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5568/14026017067_2d19616ef3_s.jpg[/img]
AusArcher

What a shame this has become a non event. Thanks for your vigilance AusArcher

That should calm the speculation.  (Mischievously, "They knocked the dents out well, buffed up OK!" Laughing
)

Ian
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Now just maybe ........  



nope better not put the mocchas on it Wink
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
That must be the first delivery in some months?  Could we expect deliveries to be going back to 'normal' at some stage soon?
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Don

From what I have been told we can expect more deliveries but at a pace only just better than glacial.

Ian
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Ian, I just don't understand what the reason for the significant hold-up is.  Parts? Labour? Bombardier doesn't have the space or they've over-committed themselves? At least the deliveries have re-commenced...
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Ian, I just don't understand what the reason for the significant hold-up is. Parts? Labour? Bombardier doesn't have the space or they've over-committed themselves? At least the deliveries have re-commenced...
don_dunstan

It could be any of them or all of them actually!
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Don et al

Apparently there were a number of issues with units 4001 to 4006 such a build quality, the floors, the couple pockets not allowing enough swing to negotiate S curves without transitions and others. I guess having 6 sets allowed the Seaford and Tonsley services to commence/recommence and I think these units have had some of the mods done at Dry Creek; whether they will need further work I do not know.

I have heard that sets 4007 on will be fully modified.

Ian
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Don et al

Apparently there were a number of issues with units 4001 to 4006 such a build quality, the floors, the couple pockets not allowing enough swing to negotiate S curves without transitions and others. I guess having 6 sets allowed the Seaford and Tonsley services to commence/recommence and I think these units have had some of the mods done at Dry Creek; whether they will need further work I do not know.

I have heard that sets 4007 on will be fully modified.

Ian
steam4ian

Apparently the turnouts in Adelaide are tighter than elsewhere in Australia and indeed the world. This has caused all sorts of problems in the coupling area of the A-City units including the concertinas.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

A photo of 4007 A or B at Tailem Bend (on a road trailer) has just appeared on Facebook.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Apparently the turnouts in Adelaide are tighter than elsewhere in Australia and indeed the world. This has caused all sorts of problems in the coupling area of the A-City units including the concertinas.
nm39

Thi should have been made known in the specifications in the first place so that the manufacturer could alter them to comply if needed. It comes back to the DPTI again here, lack of expertise!

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