A-City trains

 
  michaelgreenhill Administrator That's Numberwang!

Location: Melbourne
Hi guys,

I couldn't find an existing thread on the A-City trains, so apologies if there already is one.

A friend of mine sent me this photo on Facebook, which he's allowed me to post on Railpage. It was heading south from Bayswater North towards Bombardier in Dandenong.

[img]http://static.railpage.com.au/content/mgh/acity.jpg[/img]

May have come from this company : http://apogeeproducts.com.au/

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  trainznbuses Train Controller

Location: Seacliff Park, SA
New nose to turn our 3000's into 3500 class railcars Laughing
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Michael, there was a thread that contained discussion of the A-train delivery but I think it's since been buried.  There were pictures of a nearly-completed A-train motor unit being moved at Dandenong about three months ago so there must be an immanent delivery to the Seaford depot soon (surely?).
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Michael, there was a thread that contained discussion of the A-train delivery but I think it's since been buried.  There were pictures of a nearly-completed A-train motor unit being moved at Dandenong about three months ago so there must be an immanent delivery to the Seaford depot soon (surely?).
don_dunstan

Well the 4000 series railcars has been delayed a few times now DPTI said the expected date is mid July coming from mid June intially
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Well the 4000 series railcars has been delayed a few times now DPTI said the expected date is mid July coming from mid June intially
Milkomeda
And they had previously said the first week of June.

They should have clicked on the option to pay a few dollars extra for express shipping I think.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

New nose to turn our 3000's into 3500 class railcars Laughing
trainznbuses

Laughing
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
And they had previously said the first week of June.

They should have clicked on the option to pay a few dollars extra for express shipping I think.
justapassenger
LOL! But you cannot express ship what you've not yet made.
  dvdplaza Chief Train Controller

New nose to turn our 3000's into 3500 class railcars Laughing
"trainznbuses"


With a nickname of SuperPox Wink
  yoyoman Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA
Rudolph Laughing
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Could be the new A-Smart for Two complete body:lol:
  GN4472 Deputy Commissioner

Could be the new front end for the new high speed railcars for the Mount Gambier service! Wink
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Could be the new front end for the new high speed railcars for the Mount Gambier service! Wink
GN4472

Complete with gauge changing wheels.

The couplers would need to be chopper type to cut through the trees which have grown up through the track.

Laughing
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
Not to mention track relaying/restoration equipment built in.
  rail_road_runner Station Staff

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Ok, heres what im thinkin bout,
1.how are these trains getting here?
2.are they coming in one piece on low loaders?
3.are they coming in pieces?
4.if 3 is an answer were will they be assembled?
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Ok, heres what im thinkin bout,
1.how are these trains getting here?
2.are they coming in one piece on low loaders?
3.are they coming in pieces?
4.if 3 is an answer were will they be assembled?
"rail_road_runner"


1. Probably via low loader (road) (Direct to Seaford Depot)
2. One piece as in one unit per truck (each EMU set is 3 units )
3. I believe some internal fit out will be done here
4. Seaford Depot

There are some photos in another thread.
  rail_road_runner Station Staff

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
1. Probably via low loader (road) (Direct to Seaford Depot)
2. One piece as in one unit per truck (each EMU set is 3 units )
3. I believe some internal fit out will be done here
4. Seaford Depot

There are some photos in another thread.
Pressman
alright,
i read that the emu's weigh 185 tonnes, is that per 3 car set or for each unit?
the other thing is were are they going to be dropped off at..will it be at seaford depot or another location?
i cannot image too many roads down south that will handle 185 tonne..if they are 60 tonne per unit then that will be different.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

alright,
i read that the emu's weigh 185 tonnes, is that per 3 car set or for each unit?
the other thing is were are they going to be dropped off at..will it be at seaford depot or another location?
i cannot image too many roads down south that will handle 185 tonne..if they are 60 tonne per unit then that will be different.
rail_road_runner

Please do some maths. A 185 tonne unit runs on 4 axles making the axle load over 45 tonnes. This is extreme even by US standards.

Spread this mass over 12 axles and you get about 15 tonnes, much more acceptable.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Please do some maths. A 185 tonne unit runs on 4 axles making the axle load over 45 tonnes. This is extreme even by US standards.

Spread this mass over 12 axles and you get about 15 tonnes, much more acceptable.
"steam4ian"

Even an NR class locomotive only weighs in at 132 tonnes.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Confusion about terminology is probably a slight issue here that muddies the waters. Around the world, the conventional understanding of "unit" in the context of an EMU or DMU is that you have a number of permanently coupled cars making up one unit. We are getting 22 units, made of three cars each.

You can see why things are getting a little confused, when you get people muddying the waters by talking about "sets" instead of units (not really a problem) but then recycling the word "unit" for the individual cars (causes confusion by using the same word for a completely different meaning).
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Back to Rail_Road_Runner's question.

Without bogies and under floor gear the cars will weigh much less than 60 tonnes.
I am assuming the under floor gear will come off to get the height down and some of it is quite heavy; include the transformer, the drive system invertors, the air compressor, air receivers batteries and the like. All of these components can be modular so fitting them onto the cars at Seaford is quite manageable, basically bolt on and connect.

I look forward to seeing a car arrive by road.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Can somebody provide some clue as to why these EMUs are to be so heavy, or verify that the 185 tonne figure for each 3-car unit was just a made-up figure used for an applied example in a year 9 science lesson?

The Siemens Nexas (3 cars) and Alstom X'Trapolis 100 (3 cars) used in Melbourne are only a couple of metres shorter than the A-City, and come in at only 121 tonnes, albeit without the need for an AC transformer which alone cannot account for the 64 tonne difference.

The Bombardier 160/260 EMUs used by QR are also only a couple of metres shorter and also narrower, and they come in at 128 tonnes. As the A-City design is the newest evolution based on the 1980s AdTranz design (i.e. the next evolution after the QR 160/260 and Transperth B-series) this example is most important.

I accept that ours are a different design (or at least a new generation based on the same original design) to the other relatively recent types mentioned above, having slightly larger bodies to take advantage of slightly more generous gauging and various other miscellaneous updates. But a couple of metres should not account for a penalty that is equivalent to adding one and a half cars.

I would be disappointed at what would be a clear failure of the procurement process if we end up with the EMUs being any heavier than 125 tonnes each. The point of using an external electricity supply instead of on-board internal combustion engines is to reduce weight - which has the advantages of increased performance, increased efficiency and (very importantly in Adelaide where track maintenance requires a capital works program) less impact on the track. If the cars end up being 60-65 tonnes each compared to the current 46-48 tonne 3000/3100 cars it will have been a step backwards.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Good point Justapax.

Some might recall that I advocated a 700 volt dc traction scheme to avoid dragging around the weight of the transformers; put them trackside with their rectifiers where don't slow down the trains.

That said, I cannot see a transformer adding 60 tonnes to the train mass, more like 10 tonnes or less.

I hope they got it right and not another Flexity air conditioning type stuff up.
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
I'll suggest that perhaps weight is to assist with traction/adhesion especially bearing in mind the much maligned gradients at the new Goodwood underpass, weight is similar to 2000 class (68 tonnes) per car, traction gear and auxilaries distributed evenly (weight wise) on all three modules of A trains and their NG equivalents.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I'll suggest that perhaps weight is to assist with traction/adhesion especially bearing in mind the much maligned gradients at the new Goodwood underpass, weight is similar to 2000 class (68 tonnes) per car, traction gear and auxilaries distributed evenly (weight wise) on all three modules of A trains and their NG equivalents.
alcoworldseries
If that is the case (I'm still leaning towards 185 tonnes being a number pulled out of the air by a public affairs officer as an example for a year 9 class) then it's yet more evidence that this is a one buttock effort designed only to bring our system into the 20th century, not the 21st.

A review of what else is going on around the world would discover that EMUs are getting lighter even when steep overpasses and underpasses are involved on lines such as Thameslink in London. Everywhere else is moving beyond the outdated "weight is great" mantra from when engineering was an art rather than a science, they've realised that "light is might" instead now that the traction control systems to work with it are available.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

It was observed that when the data in the link below was released to these pages that one thing missing was the mass of the units.

See http://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/91975/2013_02_14_Adelaide_EMU_-_A-city_Factsheet.pdf


I for one hope the mass is closer to 120 tonnes; even that is too much considering the trains do not share tracks with heavy rail, except the Stonie.

A stainless steel car with air con and running gear should weigh about 40 tonnes (eg 2000 class trailer). Three cars totals 120 tonnes. Don't tell me the pantograph, switchgear, transformer, traction drives and traction motors weigh 65 tonnes


Regards
Ian

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