NSW Interstate Passenger Service to make way for local Brisbane CityTrain Services

 

News article: NSW Interstate Passenger Service to make way for local Brisbane CityTrain Services

More train paths will be opened up for Gold Coast commuters following an agreement between Queensland and New South Wales governments to change the timetable of the interstate passenger train.

  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Curiously it wasn't announced before the federal election.
GeoffreyHansen
Although it involves two states, it's still a state issue, and while it wasn't announced before the federal election, the SMH article here dated 17th May 2013. Or at least announced before Rudd's announcement of his election date.

Arriving at 330 am is no big deal IF you are in a sleeper and can doze till 7 or if you can wait on board till first trains start running. Being dumped on the streets of Brisbane at 4am is not acceptable.
62440
Remember though that these are daylight saving times (ie: 3:53 & 4:55 for the return). Until 07:00 you say? Isn't that what UK and or Europe do sometimes?

PS: I hope the Web Archive has a Countrylink page for the times before Costa(1) back flipped about not cutting any Countrylink train service and closed, oh sooorry I mean "suspended serviced" the Murwillumbah line.

1. He was really in the wrong party, just like McKay was.

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  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me

Arriving at 330 am is no big deal IF you are in a sleeper and can doze till 7 or if you can wait on board till first trains start running. Being dumped on the streets of Brisbane at 4am is not acceptable.
"62440"


Don't go dozing too long, the planned changes mean the XPT that arrives at 3:53am departs Roma St at 4:55am
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Pressman, I think he was trying to say why not delay the Brisbane XPT until sometime near when Brisbane's peak hours finish.

But depending on what time if left, it would then get a similar result at the Sydney Central end.

Leave it to leave Roma St around 8:30am, and it wouldn't arrive into Sydney until about 10pm - although the Dubbo XPT comes close to that. If it left around 9:30, be about 11pm into Sydney.

And with any major delays that the XPT is faced with, if it left at 9:30am, it may not arrive into Central, until after midnight.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Ok, the timings suck! Arriving at that time in the morning makes the train even less usefull than it was before. Its certainly no longer attractive for nth NSW'ers going to Brisbane for a day trip (if it was before). I've previously used the Brisbane XPT to get from Wyong to Brisbane faster and cheaper than flying and suited my schedule perfectly and in the unlikely event I had to repeat that schedule the train is now useless.

But realistically what to do?
Its a 14hr trip from Sydney to Brisbane when you look at avoiding all the peak hour traffic jams in both cities this isn't much oppurtunity. Leaving Sydney at 6:30am, arrive Brisbane at 8:30pm, leave at 9:30pm return back 11:30am is probably best option, but this is the Grafton timetable for the out boaund trip. So you need to move that one around.

Then you have the limitation of the XPT schedule, it cannot just wait around anywhere. The XPT Rotation is so tight that the trip must be purely out and back with 1hr for servicing.

Regards
Shane
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
RTT_Rules, I suggest we recycle one of thadocta's ideas from last year, and swap the Casino and Brisbane XPT services. To make it fit, djf01 and I cut a fair number of stops, especially on the overnight sectors.

Have the Brisbane service depart Sydney at 0730, arriving at 2045. Depart 2130, arrive back 1045+1. Use this to then run a Grafton service, depart 1130, arrive Grafton 2045. Depart 2130, arrive back 0645+1. This takes two trains on an alternating diagram, keeping both services daily.

Now have the Casino service run in opposition to this. Depart Sydney 2130, arrive Casino 0815+1. Depart Casino 0915, arrive Sydney 2000. Set is captive to this run.

A lot of stops can honestly be stripped out, and you can sell these as enhancements to the service. For example, get rid of everything between Maitland and Taree, and operate an Endeavour from Newcastle to cover it. (The Dungog and Scone services require two trains each, but one set for each idles between AM and PM peaks, between 0845 and 1715.) Then use coaches to strip out everything between Kempsey and Coffs Harbour except Macksville (for the coach connection - or even a local Busways service). You get the idea. Emphasise a network of coaches actively supporting the trains, not just filling gaps.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
RTT_Rules, I suggest we recycle one of thadocta's ideas from last year, and swap the Casino and Brisbane XPT services. To make it fit, djf01 and I cut a fair number of stops, especially on the overnight sectors.

Have the Brisbane service depart Sydney at 0730, arriving at 2045. Depart 2130, arrive back 1045+1. Use this to then run a Grafton service, depart 1130, arrive Grafton 2045. Depart 2130, arrive back 0645+1. This takes two trains on an alternating diagram, keeping both services daily.

Now have the Casino service run in opposition to this. Depart Sydney 2130, arrive Casino 0815+1. Depart Casino 0915, arrive Sydney 2000. Set is captive to this run.

A lot of stops can honestly be stripped out, and you can sell these as enhancements to the service. For example, get rid of everything between Maitland and Taree, and operate an Endeavour from Newcastle to cover it. (The Dungog and Scone services require two trains each, but one set for each idles between AM and PM peaks, between 0845 and 1715.) Then use coaches to strip out everything between Kempsey and Coffs Harbour except Macksville (for the coach connection - or even a local Busways service). You get the idea. Emphasise a network of coaches actively supporting the trains, not just filling gaps.
Watson374
Hi,
I'm not sure the XPT roster is this flexible, but I see what you are getting at. When the suggestion of swapping Casino and Brisbane sets was raised, I looked at the roster and I couldn't see how it would work, but this doesn't mean it cannot work.

My understand is that it stops at stations only for safeworking or as required. So if someone wants to get off, why should we block that passenger(s) from using the service. The prime role for the XPT is not capital to capital, but rather regional to regional and regional to capital. Cutting stations reduces this function of the service. Then of course running faster means catching up to a freighter faster.

Complex issue
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Hi,
I'm not sure the XPT roster is this flexible, but I see what you are getting at. When the suggestion of swapping Casino and Brisbane sets was raised, I looked at the roster and I couldn't see how it would work, but this doesn't mean it cannot work.

...

Complex issue
RTT_Rules

I think the roster is designed to run the 10 daily (non Dubbo) services with 7 of the 8 available sets.

For this to work both overnight train arrivals (from Melb and Casino) and one of the day trains (the Grafton XPT) need to be turned to form a DOWN service: Specifically the 2 overnight DOWN trains to Bris and Melb and the UP Grafton XPT.  Presumably this means a trip down to Meaks Rd.

AFAIK, the current progression at Sydney is:

SYD - > CAS  (Overnight turnaround)
SYD -> MLB  (Overnight Turnaround)
CAS -> SYD -> GFT (0630 - 1130: 4hr turnaround)
MLB -> SYD -> BRS (0730 - 1630: 9hr turnaround)
GFT -> SYD -> MLB (16:30 - 20:30: 4hr turnaround)
BRS -> SYD
MLB -> SYD


If there is an issue, it's that currently the Casino XPT is it's currently the first to arrive @
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
I'm not sure the XPT roster is this flexible, but I see what you are getting at. When the suggestion of swapping Casino and Brisbane sets was raised, I looked at the roster and I couldn't see how it would work, but this doesn't mean it cannot work.
"RTT_Rules"
Under the current situation, it's difficult to make it work.

My understand is that it stops at stations only for safeworking or as required. So if someone wants to get off, why should we block that passenger(s) from using the service. The prime role for the XPT is not capital to capital, but rather regional to regional and regional to capital. Cutting stations reduces this function of the service. Then of course running faster means catching up to a freighter faster.
"RTT_Rules"
That's true, but at the same time I believe that we need to ensure that the service is as speedy as possible to enhance these regional-to-regional and regional-to-capital links.

Put it this way. The North Coast services all call at Macksville, Nambucca Heads, Urunga and Sawtell; none of which are terribly far apart. All this stopping slows down the train, which in turn weakens the regional-regional and regional-capital links you're quite rightly advocating. By using a coach 'bridge' between Macksville and Coffs Harbour (or even Kempsey to Coffs Harbour), we can transfer the local service burden off the train, enhancing its cross-regional function.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

Don't go dozing too long, the planned changes mean the XPT that arrives at 3:53am departs Roma St at 4:55am
Pressman
What sort of time is that? Bad enough if you live in Bris and need a lift or taxi but if you are visiting, you need to leave your hotel at 4am.
The operations obviously dominate, passengers are not considered, there is a strong disincentive for using this service. The mid-afternoon of the old BL avoided peaks and got to Sydney in time for onward connections.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

If you want to see what the timetable looked like (non-DST), you can: down/up.
Watson374
With those two pictures of your suggestion for the XPTs, what text and text size did you use, and also the software if possible please?
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
With those two pictures of your suggestion for the XPTs, what text and text size did you use, and also the software if possible please?
"Newcastle Express"
Calibri in size 10, composed timetables in OpenOffice Calc, screen-capped the print preview and cropped it to size in Paint.

Incredibly sophisticated timetable production here. (Not.)

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