Twenty (20) years...plus a few months since the demise of the Vinelander

 
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The entire Victorian rail
Network needs investment. How can this be achieved? It needs a commitment from the government and the businesses who use the network.

Sadly I believe Napthine will loose the election which I believe he deserves to do. My sadness does not come from this event but rather labour also has no solution.

Australia is entering a dangerous economic phase and I receive no warm and fuzzy feelings from either party with perhaps the exception of the greens when it comes to public transport.

Back to freight. What is the oppositions position on rail freight? Looking today I cannot find one.

Time to write a letter to Andrews.

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  Casper1975 Station Master

Location: Ouyen, Victoria
... or... you could just take the bus.

It takes 7 hours from Ouyen to Spencer St station, much faster than a restored train could do the journey.
Bogong

Simply not a option.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
AS I wrote a few pages back in this thread, the local support for the return of the passenger train to Mildura is as strong now as it's ever been.

Alas, I feel the issue will become the 'elephant in the room' in the upcoming state election that Lib/Lab candidates wished would just go away...

Below are links in the Sunraysia Daily letters column for the past week, starting with upcoming state election Independent candidate, Mark Cory who was a PUP (Palmer United Party) candidate in last years federal election.

I won't post the latest letters in the local paper every week, however the subject wont go away because a few bus/aeroplane-fans think it's economically impossible...

http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/story/2120591/peter-crisp-is-holding-all-the-cards-on-rail/?cs=1385

http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/story/2122599/just-one-vote-can-move-mountains/?cs=1385

http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/story/2125194/corys-views-are-off-track/?cs=1385

http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/story/2130812/let-down-by-all-parties-over-passenger-rail/?cs=2015

http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/story/2130811/mildura-to-go-without-amidst-pork-barrelling/?cs=2015

http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/story/2135436/mark-cory-a-breath-of-fresh-air/?cs=2015

http://www.sunraysiadaily.com.au/story/2135406/putting-things-into-perspective/?cs=2015

Mike.
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

The biggest stand out in this list of populations in Victoria is the major city not served by passenger trains.

Considering the population, it is poor that Swan Hill has a passenger train and Mildura doesn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_in_Victoria_by_population
  DalyWaters Chief Commissioner

The biggest stand out in this list of populations in Victoria is the major city not served by passenger trains.

Considering the population, it is poor that Swan Hill has a passenger train and Mildura doesn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_in_Victoria_by_population

(In fact, discounting the Bellarine Peninsula towns, All cities in the top 20 are served by V/Line passenger trains except Mildura and Horsham.  Yet both these towns already have the rail there.)
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Oh no, Kyneton has trains and Lakes Entrance doesn't!  Better start building! /dalylogic
  Casper1975 Station Master

Location: Ouyen, Victoria
Oh no, Kyneton has trains and Lakes Entrance doesn't! Better start building! /dalylogic
ZH836301


I see your point but Kyneton is on one of Victoria's main passenger rail lines.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Mildura isn't.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Meanwhile, in the 12 month period to the end of January 2014, 212516 people flew in or out of Mildura Airport. An increase of over 6000 on the preceding 12 months, but let's just keep flogging that dead horse.It's sure to be mentioned in the run up to the next state election,and then as quickly forgotten the day after.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Good on them, they've managed a similar level of growth to Melbourne Airport, domestic.

Have they finished the upgrades they were doing?
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
ZH       They've got a pretty comprehensive website, with what 's been done and about to be done. I usually just have a brief look when I see this particular dead horse being flogged.

From memory the terminal upgrade has been done and their about to embark on major upgrade of the runway or runways or whatever they've got.

As a mate of mine from Mildura said, you just pay your couple of hundred bucks and your in Melbourne 45 minutes later, do what you've got to do and home in time for tea.As against a 6 hour drive, a couple of hundred dollars in fuel and a day out of your life in a total prik of a drive. Otherwise a three hour drive to Adelaide.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
They've updated their site since I last visiting, slick.

Found some images of the finished terminal upgrades in the report, very nice - I can see why they won the regional airport award.

Had a read of their masterplan too, they're projecting B737s from 2015.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

As a mate of mine from Mildura said, you just pay your couple of hundred bucks and your in Melbourne 45 minutes later, do what you've got to do and home in time for tea.As against a 6 hour drive, a couple of hundred dollars in fuel and a day out of your life in a total prik of a drive. Otherwise a three hour drive to Adelaide.
wobert

Just because your somewhat ill-informed 'mate' says pay your couple of hundred bucks EACH WAY, that may well suit him.

Never mind the expense of getting to Mildura airport..Taxi fare or friends/relatives having to drop you off out there, then the one hour trip to Melbourne...the 'couple of hundred bucks'. Then how do you get from Melbourne airport to where you are going in the metropolis?

As your mate seems to be cashed up, no doubt he'll take a taxi. Add at least another hundred bucks or so to/from Melbourne airport. A very expensive exercise indeed.

Then you wonder why the locals after 20+ years are still advocating the return of the train. No doubt also many of the tens of thousands of travellers who used Mildura airport are happy to be ripped off the couple of hundred bucks, plus the additional travel expenses when they travel on the 'faster' and more 'convenient' airlines.

Those of us who think about how we travel and are happy to live with 3 hour travel difference as a good trade off for the convenience in travel modes save mega$ for around $100 return, $50 concession and go by V/Line.

Flogging a dead horse Question I think not...

Mike.

PS, as Adelaide is over 400Km from Mildura, your mate risks losing his licence and having his car impounded if he's covering that distance in 3 hours..
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
FFS, if people are afraid of flying, there is a frequent and perfectly good bus service (via several routes) that gets to Melbourne far faster than any train ever would.

For train buffs there's also a train to Swan Hill that covers 3/4 of the distance between Melbourne and Mildura with a reliable connecting bus to complete the journey.

There's also a very good air service that is quite affordable for anyone with a job.

Stop being precious, considering it's modest size and great distance from Melbourne, Mildura is exceptionally well served with three types of taxpayer subsidised public transport connecting it to Melbourne.

A fourth option is to do what most people do and drive.

So please return to the real world and stop being precious or greedy or an over the top foamer, or possibly all three! Rolling Eyes
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Alright  Mike, 4 hours Mildura/Adelaide. Other than that keep flogging.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Just because your somewhat ill-informed...
The Whinelander

I'm not going to go through this with you yet again since you're a broken record, but airfares to Mildura are reasonable, family members of mine use them often. They sure don't feel 'ripped off' for not having to drive the 5+ hours up the highway by themselves, or waste away for 7+ hours on a train or bus. And they sure as hell wouldn't appreciate being derided by the likes of you for their travel choice just because you like trains and don't value your time. You may travel without purpose, doesn't mean everybody else does. They base the decision on time and convenience - if there was a train, they would still fly.

You have no real arguments. 'Friends have to pick you up from the airport'? Well they'd have to pick you up from the station too. You can only attack those who have made a perfectly valid choice between two options, as if they're imbeciles, unable to make an enlightened choice like the wealth of intelligence and hubris that is yourself.

You can't afford the plane? Take the bus/train and stop whinging.

Then you wonder why the locals after 20+ years are still advocating the return of the train.
The Whinelander

'The' locals. Ie. Some locals. Ie. A few bored old locals.

Make them buy five tickets in advance at 20% discount, cash held in trust until return, or refunded after 5 years. Then we'll see just how hard they advocate.
  billybaxter Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
No doubt also many of the tens of thousands of travellers who used Mildura airport are happy to be ripped off the couple of hundred bucks, plus the additional travel expenses when they travel on the 'faster' and more 'convenient' airlines.

Those of us who think about how we travel and are happy to live with 3 hour travel difference as a good trade off for the convenience in travel modes save mega$ for around $100 return, $50 concession and go by V/Line.
The Vinelander

There's choice here. People can drive or take a Vline service, they don't have to take the plane. If they choose to do so then they probably think it's a better deal than the alternatives, so they're not being ripped off. Those Vline fares that save you !!!$$MEGA$$!!! are subsidised, so you're getting a good deal thanks to the public purse. Supping from Mother Taxpayer's breast may be a good deal but if we all did it.....
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
there is a lot of negativity from the rail fan community to the resumption of passenger services to and from mildura why? if the pressure is kept on the return of passenger services then this could only be good for freight services since freight trains would have better track to run on?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I'm not going to go through this with you yet again since you're a broken record, but airfares to Mildura are reasonable, family members of mine use them often. They sure don't feel 'ripped off' for not having to drive the 5+ hours up the highway by themselves, or waste away for 7+ hours on a train or bus.***SNIP*** if there was a train, they would still fly.

You have no real arguments. 'Friends have to pick you up from the airport'? Well they'd have to pick you up from the station too. You can only attack those who have made a perfectly valid choice between two options, as if they're imbeciles, unable to make an enlightened choice like the wealth of intelligence and hubris that is yourself.

You can't afford the plane? Take the bus/train and stop whinging.

'The' locals. Ie. Some locals. Ie. A few bored old locals.
ZH836301

As strange as it may seem ZH, some of my family members also regularly fly to/from Mildura and it's an interesting discussion that's often held at our dinner table regards the pro's and con's of flying against V/Line. We can and do have both. Obviously I can well afford to fly however I travel V/Line because it's more convenient for me.

No doubt this Easter we'll have the same discussion once more where the premium prices to fly really support my argument regards the advantages of travelling by V/Line.

Flying at Easter if booked today, up Thursday, back Monday arvo $430.00, V/Line, still $100.

BTW, though we live a 30 minute walk from Mildura station, I insist on walking. A bit of exercise never hurt anyone.

A whole generation of Mildura locals have died since the demise of the train, so it's unlikely it's the same 'few bored locals' advocating the trains return, so like those few bored locals I'm happy to keep flogging away, ZH, Bogong and Wobert till the majority prevails...

Mike.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
there is a lot of negativity from the rail fan community to the resumption of passenger services to and from mildura why? if the pressure is kept on the return of passenger services then this could only be good for freight services since freight trains would have better track to run on?
JimYarin

Why?

* because it would many squillions of dollars.

* If the money was available, those squillions could be better used to fund several other transport infrastructure projects.

* There are already a large number of public transport options (a mostly rail route with a bus for the last bit of the journey, 2 entirely bus routes and an air route) that require a smaller taxpayer subsidy than a train would, have higher frequencies than a train would and are much faster than any train would be.
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
all transport proposals need to be addressed across the state.  for me it is not a question of if but when.  i do hope freight can again run between mildura and ouyen and adelaide as i think this would be a faster route for operators.

would a passenger rail service from adelaideto mildura/ouyen be useful if not to melbourne as many folk from this area do come to adelaide for health and other reasons as it is a lot closer than melbourne.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
No, because the Sturt Hwy is much faster.

You're going backwards, you're just saying we need rail, how can we provide it, rather than considering the actual transport needs.

And comparing subsidised fares with commercial airline operators is disingenuous at best, and isn't really an argument for rail.  If anything the massively subsidised fares are a bad thing as they limit the opportunities for private operators to compete.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
there is a lot of negativity from the rail fan community to the resumption of passenger services to and from mildura why?
JimYarin

Because we need to get the priorities right, and Mildura rail isn't one of them.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
comparing subsidised fares with commercial airline operators is disingenuous at best, and isn't really an argument for rail. If anything the massively subsidised fares are a bad thing as they limit the opportunities for private operators to compete.
ZH836301

Yes...we've been down the privatisation path before, the result of that being the track beyond Ballarat, now Maryborough was totally buggered..

As, according to you V/Line offer such an inferior service, why should the fares be on par with flying as that would only further isolate the region from Melbourne. Be consistent ZH, or would you prefer the local community to be landlocked because they couldn't afford the unsubsidised fare to travel OR do you suggest the whole region move closer to Melbourne to eliminate what you perceive to be a fare bias AGAINST the struggling airlines Question


The airline fans amongst us can't convince me we should be charged disproportionately higher fares to travel by the apparently inferior V/Line to Mildura and that the service by whatever means like the rest of the PT network should be constantly upgraded, and I can't convince you that V/Line has an important role to play in linking ALL of the communities of the north west.

As we are at a stalemate, I'm saying no more on the matter until something else comes along.

Mike.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
It is a privilege to have a train service in some areas of the state, not an absolute right.

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