Trainorama (BOBS HOBBIES) update

 
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Does anyone wish for Auscision to do all the models Traino has done so that this businesses failures can finally run out of town???

Regards

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  Hafenbahn Locomotive Fireman

No, to my mind it is the competition between our model manufacturers that has driven the improvements in quality of rtr models during the last decade. As long as a manufacturer is making quality product that is desirable to the market at a reasonable price etc then why should they be penalized?
If they no longer make what the market wants or expects then modellers will take their $ elsewhere.
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
This is true. However....

Why are Auscision doing a 44? Why did they do a 48? Both were Traino models til recently.

IMHO we don't often like double ups in this hobby as we perceive this to be wasted effort since we'd rather see a model done that we don't have as well as another from someone else instead of them both doing the same item.

From that we assume we'll get 2 good models. An interesting assumption, but what happens when only one model importer does model X, and makes a balls up of it??

What we have seen happen when two have done the same item is the market has ultimately decided who did the better version. T class locos, Flour hoppers and NR class locos being a point in case.

If you make model x, and some years later someone else makes the same and sells shed loads more, and consequently yours end up on second hand stalls or hocked off on eBay, you shouldn't be upset. It's just market forces deciding you did a crap job of it, and your denial of such doesn't preclude the reality of the situation.

Anyone can be in any game, be in it from the start, be on top of it or not, or drop the ball or not. Where you end up is your choice.
Austrains anyone??

There's going to be more Traino models rerun by others IMHO.

Regards
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

Does anyone wish for Auscision to do all the models Traino has done so that this businesses failures can finally run out of town???

Regards
davesvline
Well if someone can do it better then well of course you will put them out of business. But at the same time competion is good as it should mean that each manufacturer of the same models do it better and so the standard of the model rises. Trainorama and their wheel stuff ups when the gears split on brand new models and Traino just made more of the same thing as replacements with the provision that those without a receipt would pay for them was not a good business move in most peoples eyes. A lot of the Australian manufactures suffer from this same problem they are not interested in your problems after you have bought the model. But I bet my last dollar you sell them something dodgy and they would be the first to complain about it to you.

But if Auscision can do it better and with less problems then good on them as at least one manufacturer of models likes to hear about problems and then corrects them if possible, not shoot you in the foot for having the temerity and gall to complain about their models.

I dont think they will ever become a monopoly though as there now seems to models and companies spring out of the woodwork almost at times. The list now of Australian manufacturers of railway models is a lot longer than when I stated as only Tri-Ang had any Australian models in their range and that was the NSWGR red rattler cars or the VR B class. that was the range actually.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
No, to my mind it is the competition between our model manufacturers that has driven the improvements in quality of rtr models during the last decade. As long as a manufacturer is making quality product that is desirable to the market at a reasonable price etc then why should they be penalized?
If they no longer make what the market wants or expects then modellers will take their $ elsewhere.
Hafenbahn
In support,
I must say, that I am so envious of our US modellers when I see their high quality purchases.
It is never going to be about the low prices they pay, for all the reasons already offered on these pages already.

However although our Australian manufactures can produce crisp beautifully scaled models, they just are not as robust as those produced for the US market.  (Why can't they learn from them?)

Every session that I run on my, and others layout sees bits falling off. Even a careless handler knocks bits off, and it really is discouraging. I don't think any of our manufactures are better than another. and the fix is still awaited. And I guess,l they can sell as much as they want. so fixing a small problem is not much important.    Ok so that's called bitching.....

Trainorama have suffered badly with a variety of problems. Ownership, or partners were not hands on, which lead to heavy financial losses, when hands on employees excesses brought the Company almost to ruin. Assets were converted to cash and debts were repaid, some were fired, leaving very little to continue the aims of the Company.
Then the vultures circled and soon the job of reaching solvency was made many more times difficult.

I am not sure Trainorama were without guilt, however I do know that without Trainorama and Toms Hardware, we probably would not have much of an industry here.

Austrains was about all we had, and they produced stuff 2 steps better than Powerline and Lima, both really nice toys, but far from Model Trains.

Austrains woke up, when the Traino engines hit the market . I remember comparing C Class side frames to the beaut 44 Class ones

And Trainorama and Austrains started to produce real model trains!  
Management that formed Auscision Company had connections with old Tom (trainorama). If Tom had not formed a company, that connection might have been broken. You never know their path might have led them to making plastic buckets than model trains, things being different??

It's been a very long road up to this magnificent Auscision Power Van I have in front of me, have a lot of respect for the thousands of people in NSW and Victoria that dragged us up these 50 years to this day.

Respect is missing here and lack of it, flows through this page. Some of you have no idea how difficult it has been for all these people to drag us out of tin plate and stand here with an Industry supporting our hobby.

So most of us old farts who have lived through Triang B Classes to white metal, and pink epoxy, brass engines and Austrains recognize the financial peril these guys face every day in the Australian market.

I love these guys and Trainorams deserves their place. And when did Australians start kicking the little Aussie battler in the teeth?
No respect from some here. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

If you feel hard done when your new engine costs you a weeks pay, think about the manufactures who have to invest 10 years of your pay to start off a model, which takes a couple years to get here, and may or may not recover their investment, or make a profit?  Anybody can make money out of plastic buckets eh?

So lets cut the crap!  write flowery poems of your love for Auscision, however if you have nothing good to say about another, keep it to yourself its not respect for others.. its respect for your self Wink

Cheers
Rod
  a6et Minister for Railways

In support,
I must say, that I am so envious of our US modellers when I see their high quality purchases.
It is never going to be about the low prices they pay, for all the reasons already offered on these pages already.

However although our Australian manufactures can produce crisp beautifully scaled models, they just are not as robust as those produced for the US market.  (Why can't they learn from them?)

Every session that I run on my, and others layout sees bits falling off. Even a careless handler knocks bits off, and it really is discouraging. I don't think any of our manufactures are better than another. and the fix is still awaited. And I guess,l they can sell as much as they want. so fixing a small problem is not much important.    Ok so that's called bitching.....

Trainorama have suffered badly with a variety of problems. Ownership, or partners were not hands on, which lead to heavy financial losses, when hands on employees excesses brought the Company almost to ruin. Assets were converted to cash and debts were repaid, some were fired, leaving very little to continue the aims of the Company.
Then the vultures circled and soon the job of reaching solvency was made many more times difficult.

I am not sure Trainorama were without guilt, however I do know that without Trainorama and Toms Hardware, we probably would not have much of an industry here.

Austrains was about all we had, and they produced stuff 2 steps better than Powerline and Lima, both really nice toys, but far from Model Trains.

Austrains woke up, when the Traino engines hit the market . I remember comparing C Class side frames to the beaut 44 Class ones

And Trainorama and Austrains started to produce real model trains!  
Management that formed Auscision Company had connections with old Tom (trainorama). If Tom had not formed a company, that connection might have been broken. You never know their path might have led them to making plastic buckets than model trains, things being different??

It's been a very long road up to this magnificent Auscision Power Van I have in front of me, have a lot of respect for the thousands of people in NSW and Victoria that dragged us up these 50 years to this day.

Respect is missing here and lack of it, flows through this page. Some of you have no idea how difficult it has been for all these people to drag us out of tin plate and stand here with an Industry supporting our hobby.

So most of us old farts who have lived through Triang B Classes to white metal, and pink epoxy, brass engines and Austrains recognize the financial peril these guys face every day in the Australian market.

I love these guys and Trainorams deserves their place. And when did Australians start kicking the little Aussie battler in the teeth?
No respect from some here. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

If you feel hard done when your new engine costs you a weeks pay, think about the manufactures who have to invest 10 years of your pay to start off a model, which takes a couple years to get here, and may or may not recover their investment, or make a profit?  Anybody can make money out of plastic buckets eh?

So lets cut the crap!  write flowery poems of your love for Auscision, however if you have nothing good to say about another, keep it to yourself its not respect for others.. its respect for your self Wink

Cheers
Rod
comtrain
Rod, a vg post.  What many forget is which company started bring us decent models and a step up from the older Austrains models that only really were a step up from PL and Lima, the best of their models up to that time was the 36cl but today that is very much dated as well.  TOR brought the newer era in with the 44cl. sure it has a couple of issues and the clicking gears are one, but how many miles that they done on layouts? Without that model, and it showing how things can be improved on and that is still going on as well. What sort of models would we still be buying.

TOR since the models that came out in the last decade and issues that took place have at least tried to keep going despite all the attacks, rumours and innuendo's that have plagued the company especially since the new owner has taken over are over the top.  Much of the criticisms are from people who were formally with the shop, how many know of why so many models that were on their TO DO/futures list, like was on the Austrains and Eureka ones as well, those heady days of posted out and news releases of what they were planning in model programs.

When I walked into the shop and speaking to the then manager when one of the models on their to do list and ready to go into the die cuts in China who came out with the words  The hobby is about to implode. Why? Because a new entrant had just announced the arrival or near arrival of a model that TOR was about to produce. Said manager then basically put a stop on any new models to be built, and nil reruns.  Then they were gazumped by a diesel model they had also announced but, there's a lot more in that story as well.

Empty shelves, well items that did not sell had sat there for ages with sagging and hard to read content boxes.  Why when the current owner decided to try and keep the business afloat he is criticised for changing the name of the shop to his name.  That's a disgrace and flack was thick, but if anyone of the critics purchased the business, would they not be entitled to put their tag to it?

How inaccurate are their models? How long ago was it that TOR brought out the VR S class and a competitor brought out the B class, and many here were daming of the S class and its nose as being wrong, whereas the B was spot on, that is until a Victorian modeller spoke up and showed photo's of the B class and showed up the errors on the model and also showed up the S class as being correct. Surprising how quickly the thread died

Why did Toms/Bobs shop at West Ryde shut and move to Seven Hills and their warehouse.  The original shops landlord/owner sold the shop and area around it for redevelopment, the move up around the corner was meant to be permanent as the shop was owned by the BOBS hobbies owner, no sooner were they starting to get set up there, that area and shops were put up for redevelopment, with that it forced another move and going to the warehouse site was the best option for permancy.

There's a lot more to the story but that's really enough.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

I look at this way any model bought out even Australian can have modifications done by the owner to get it closer to the actual prototype, but all things considered it is just not possible to get a 100% accurate model it would not work on a model railway if you made it.  Now about companies making identical models in Britain two companies Bachmann and Hornby both make models of identical prototypes Tornado is one and the A4's are the other. But each is upping the quality as the other strives to better their competitors model. It is a cycle really and now a lot of models are simply new models to take over from existing models that could be upgraded of sort simply because the upgrade model is now looking a bit worse than it did when first released. All manufactures have this problem hell even modellers are the same compare the first model you ever made to your latest creation and then tell me there has not been a world of improvement. The same happens when making the models to sell if you improve your model people will buy it and this forces the competitor to have a good think about his models and so it goes on. It is akin to a snowball down a mountain really.

I dont mind duplicates of models as I will buy one of each and whichever one I think is the better model or one brand do a colour scheme that the other does not then I will buy it. Things these days are as Ron Cunningham points out in his letter to AMRM in the current issue now mainly push fitted and not glued as they used to be, probably because of health reasons about the glue. I am not a person that buys just one brand though but I buy what ever is my main interest and that is SAR or South Australian at least and other things come after. So things like 830's are a must on a SAR layout as are 930's as well so you buy what ever brand makes these models and if you have more than one choice all the better as different modellers have different ideas at what they want out of a model. I dare say that even a near perfect model someone, somewhere would find faults with it.

As long as each model is an improvement on the last, then it is alright, but if for any reason a model comes out and is found to be not faulty but say just below the standard expected of a model at the current time of sale then it will be looked over by most, however those models are a good way to get into the hobby, alright they might not be the latest whizz bang model available but they are affordable and so they will sell along with all the others. While on price a cheap as can be made model will always beat a high priced one though, the cheaper model might be a excellent rendition of the loco, but some one then announces the same loco to be made at twice the price because they have to start from scratch where some else simply bought a already designed and part manufactured model that was never released and so they make that model and release it themselves. Who can argue if you can  get two for one almost, not me that is for sure. All modellers want a loco cheap as possible, but still up to the standards of today, but is it possible that the standards are always changing and what is good today is out dated tomorrow.
  maybenever Deputy Commissioner

You've hit the nail on the head Rod ( enough to make me log in and post for the first time in about 10 years!), I think our 'hobby' in general lacks a lot of respect.

Will a model with faults "be looked over by most"? No it won't. The model, the manufacturer and anyone associated will be trashed mercilessly on forums like this, facebook model rail pages (where I am yet to see dogs or food) or the pages and letters of AMRM.

If someone has a different modelling philosophy to yourself, then let's find a derogatory name to call them, a rivet counter or a plonker. We will find a reason to cut the tall poppies down, and while we're at it, we'll stick the boot into the strugglers, because we want some moral or intellectual superiority?!

I got into modelling because I've loved trains all my life. I model to capture some of that magic, so whether the vents on the roof of my Powerline FS are prototypically correct is irrelevant to me, as long as I can hook it up to my Traino 44, Lima or (soon) Auscision 422 and remember watching loco hauled trains running through Strathfield in the 80s.

My philosophy in life is that because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't make them a bad person. I wish more people could follow along. We're here because we enjoy this, no?
  The railway dog Junior Train Controller

I was once of the "Duplication is bad because the Australian market can't support it " school but have been proven wrong.
I do wish all those fiddly little bits would stay on (anyone got a spare set of mirrors for a Powerline 48?).
My small fleet of Trainorama C32s forms the backbone of my layout. Excellent traffic shifting machines.
  NSW3802 Locomotive Fireman

Does anyone wish for Auscision to do all the models Traino has done so that this businesses failures can finally run out of town???

Regards
Well if someone can do it better then well of course you will put them out of business. But at the same time competion is good as it should mean that each manufacturer of the same models do it better and so the standard of the model rises. Trainorama and their wheel stuff ups when the gears split on brand new models and Traino just made more of the same thing as replacements with the provision that those without a receipt would pay for them was not a good business move in most peoples eyes. A lot of the Australian manufactures suffer from this same problem they are not interested in your problems after you have bought the model. But I bet my last dollar you sell them something dodgy and they would be the first to complain about it to you.

But if Auscision can do it better and with less problems then good on them as at least one manufacturer of models likes to hear about problems and then corrects them if possible, not shoot you in the foot for having the temerity and gall to complain about their models.


I dont think they will ever become a monopoly though as there now seems to models and companies spring out of the woodwork almost at times. The list now of Australian manufacturers of railway models is a lot longer than when I stated as only Tri-Ang had any Australian models in their range and that was the NSWGR red rattler cars or the VR B class. that was the range actually.
DJPeters
The problem with the split gears was not confined to Trainorama. British and US companies had the same problems over time. It was not a problem confined to Trainorama. Not all Trainorama locos had the problem, and overall they produced a good product. Factory closures did not help to plan delivery schedules which meant searches for new motors, chassis redesigns etc to build already planned loco releases, eg the 48 and 830s. A lot of factors delayed these models. It is easy to knock these manufacturers without knowing any of the problems they face, especially dealing with the factories involved.
  a6et Minister for Railways

The problem with the split gears was not confined to Trainorama. British and US companies had the same problems over time. It was not a problem confined to Trainorama. Not all Trainorama locos had the problem, and overall they produced a good product. Factory closures did not help to plan delivery schedules which meant searches for new motors, chassis redesigns etc to build already planned loco releases, eg the 48 and 830s. A lot of factors delayed these models. It is easy to knock these manufacturers without knowing any of the problems they face, especially dealing with the factories involved.
NSW3802
Didn't help also that when replacement gear set arrived, they sold out very quickly owing to many of the modellers of British and more so American Rail snapped them up to replace their problem gears. That has happened with each subsequent order of gears, but its also been an issue with the closure of one of the previous main manufacturers in China, finding replacement companies and now have to find another one owing to being let down again as the previous one decided to concentrate on the British and U.S market.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
I was once of the "Duplication is bad because the Australian market can't support it " school but have been proven wrong.
I do wish all those fiddly little bits would stay on (anyone got a spare set of mirrors for a Powerline 48?).
My small fleet of Trainorama C32s forms the backbone of my layout. Excellent traffic shifting machines.
The railway dog
No spare parts!   Why no spare parts?

I did find out from both Auscision and Trainorama. The Chinese hate spare parts orders, and have resisted the importers requests all this time.  "Yes! Yes! but never produce them, sounds familiar?"
I did hear that if 2000 locos are ordered and charged for, the assembly line faulty stock are not charged for but sent with main order, as spare parts for future returns. Another importer suggested that a 10% overproduction, allowed for or  covered faulty returns.

I don't blame the importers for running out of parts, but hope they continue to push the issue with the Chinese in the future
Cheers
Rod
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
The problem with the split gears was not confined to Trainorama. British and US companies had the same problems over time. It was not a problem confined to Trainorama. Not all Trainorama locos had the problem, and overall they produced a good product. Factory closures did not help to plan delivery schedules which meant searches for new motors, chassis redesigns etc to build already planned loco releases, eg the 48 and 830s. A lot of factors delayed these models. It is easy to knock these manufacturers without knowing any of the problems they face, especially dealing with the factories involved.
Didn't help also that when replacement gear set arrived, they sold out very quickly owing to many of the modellers of British and more so American Rail snapped them up to replace their problem gears. That has happened with each subsequent order of gears, but its also been an issue with the closure of one of the previous main manufacturers in China, finding replacement companies and now have to find another one owing to being let down again as the previous one decided to concentrate on the British and U.S market.
a6et
I heard from the shop, that at least two shipments of wheels have been paid for, but have yet to arrive in Australia.  This has been delayed several months.
Also despite the negative comments here, the plastics are new and improved . These wheel sets and gear sets were shared by many other importers (USA etc) They all suffered the same clicking as the gears split. It was discovered that the Chinese were not sticking to the correct formulas for their plastics. All molding creates waste and it is common practice to grind up waste product and mix with new pellets. You must not overdo it though. Forgot the ratio that I was given, but if it was 10% the Chinese were mixing up to 50% in some batches. The pellets that were now heated up twice actually failed at a higher rate and got mixed up again. The end result was very fragile gears, bodies and side frames.

I believe this was solved and good quality gears are now being sold as very cheap replacements for 44 Class and even some Austrains engines, by Bob's when he can get them. Very Happy


An engineer once told me that all plastic gears pressed onto a metal axle, needed grooves cut to help with expansion or even shrinkage. Only pic I could find, but even that one did not work.

Cheers
Rod
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Excellent Rod, thanks for posting the pics and the update.
I suppose the dilemma will also be supplying spares as required for known issues.
Hopefully the lessons are learned sufficiently to not appear on new product?

Regards
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
On a slight tangent if I may?
Has anyone tried to remove a radio equipped screen print off a Traino S class?? Googled it, and tried the sticky tape option, but no luck.

Wondering if others may have tried? It's probably a screen print but I'm not prepared to use anything abrasive on it, so I figured I'd ask.

If this should be a separate thread, happy for a Mod to move this post?

Cheers
  NSWRcars Chief Train Controller

Has anyone tried to remove a radio equipped screen print off a Traino S class??
It's probably a screen print but I'm not prepared to use anything abrasive on it, so I figured I'd ask.
davesvline
Why not use a fine abrasive paper? 1000 or 1200 grade, carefully done, should not unduly damage the underlying paint. Any surface abrasions could be buffed or clear varnished.
  a6et Minister for Railways

On a slight tangent if I may?
Has anyone tried to remove a radio equipped screen print off a Traino S class?? Googled it, and tried the sticky tape option, but no luck.

Wondering if others may have tried? It's probably a screen print but I'm not prepared to use anything abrasive on it, so I figured I'd ask.

If this should be a separate thread, happy for a Mod to move this post?

Cheers
davesvline
Dave

Try some metho on cotton buds, the other option could be the same method using CLR, but test on paintwork that is not seen first.
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Update, a6et

the Metho option didn,t work.

I got a paint transfer off a plastic car mirror on the nice paint with WD40 after googling that dilemma, so I may opt for that technique as a trial on an unseen area??  CLR seems a bit savage when i googled what the name was.. But, I haven't tried it either and WD40 i have

Regards
  a6et Minister for Railways

Update, a6et

the Metho option didn,t work.

I got a paint transfer off a plastic car mirror on the nice paint with WD40 after googling that dilemma, so I may opt for that technique as a trial on an unseen area??  CLR seems a bit savage when i googled what the name was.. But, I haven't tried it either and WD40 i have

Regards
davesvline
Dave if you have any CLR, try thinning it down with water say 2/1 WD40 may work but CLR has other uses as well
  alexk Locomotive Fireman

Location: Not far from Thornleigh
Update, a6et

the Metho option didn,t work.

I got a paint transfer off a plastic car mirror on the nice paint with WD40 after googling that dilemma, so I may opt for that technique as a trial on an unseen area??  CLR seems a bit savage when i googled what the name was.. But, I haven't tried it either and WD40 i have

Regards
davesvline

After having a look at some of the Model Rail (UK) magazines it seems as though one of the favoured approaches for removing locomotive numbers (when detailing locos) is to use a cotton bud dipped in a small amount of 'T-Cut' Colour Restorer. 'T-Cut' Colour Restorer looks like it is a cutting and polishing compound for restoring oxidised and faded car paintwork. Perhaps one of the fine grade automotive cutting compounds (Mothers, Meguiars etc) could work for removing the 'Radio Equipped' decal from the Trainorama S-class. I'm looking at p50-51 on the October 2018 (no. 253) issue and this is the approach they are using to remove the stock numbers on a Hornby B17 ten wheeler steam loco for renumbering.

The method is to dip a cotton bud in a small amount of T-Cut, rub it on the numbers (or decal) to be removed with light pressure and change the cotton bud regularly. The process should take approximately 5 minutes. The idea is to use sufficient pressure to remove the decal but not enough so that the paint work starts to be removed.

Hopefully that helps a bit and it's probably a bit gentler than CLR.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Update, a6et

the Metho option didn,t work.

I got a paint transfer off a plastic car mirror on the nice paint with WD40 after googling that dilemma, so I may opt for that technique as a trial on an unseen area??  CLR seems a bit savage when i googled what the name was.. But, I haven't tried it either and WD40 i have

Regards

After having a look at some of the Model Rail (UK) magazines it seems as though one of the favoured approaches for removing locomotive numbers (when detailing locos) is to use a cotton bud dipped in a small amount of 'T-Cut' Colour Restorer. 'T-Cut' Colour Restorer looks like it is a cutting and polishing compound for restoring oxidised and faded car paintwork. Perhaps one of the fine grade automotive cutting compounds (Mothers, Meguiars etc) could work for removing the 'Radio Equipped' decal from the Trainorama S-class. I'm looking at p50-51 on the October 2018 (no. 253) issue and this is the approach they are using to remove the stock numbers on a Hornby B17 ten wheeler steam loco for renumbering.

The method is to dip a cotton bud in a small amount of T-Cut, rub it on the numbers (or decal) to be removed with light pressure and change the cotton bud regularly. The process should take approximately 5 minutes. The idea is to use sufficient pressure to remove the decal but not enough so that the paint work starts to be removed.

Hopefully that helps a bit and it's probably a bit gentler than CLR.
alexk
After a bit of thinking on this topic and the lack of some of the suggestions something to consider is the item to be removed may in fact not be a decal at all, rather a pad print which is more common these days.

If it is a decal it may have had some sort of sealer put over it. I know I have removed decals in the past with gentle rubbing but it takes some time to clear them, a couple of items to consider is something like MicroSol it is an agent that softens decals to allow the decals to set over such things as rivets I have used this product and works well http://mrrc.com.au/paint-supplies/microscale/liquids.html  Ring the shop at Blacktown and talk to Garry he will help as he is very cluey and could recommend other items and methods as well.
  DJPeters Assistant Commissioner

In Britain they also use the scraping method very carefully as well, tip of a modelling knife or scalpel and remove as much as possible with out scratching the model it takes a lot of practice to get it right so practice on a cheap model before doing your S class. Once you have most of it off then the rest may come off with metho with gentle rubbing use a Cotton bud.

Also they use what they call a fibreglass cleaning pencil which again takes some practice to use the right way. And this does seem to work for stubborn paint that will not loosen up.

Also if using the metho method I have found that intially using a cotton bud may not do anything but a bit of metho on the whatever needs to be removed and let it soak for a few minutes and then try rubbing it off sometimes works as well. You only put on enough to cover the numbering or whatever it should soften it up a bit for you. But use light pressure on the cotton bud though as it may also soften the paint you want to keep.

You might also try a combination of methods from other posts as well.

Below is a photo of a typical Fibreglass Cleaning Pencil.



Here is one source of them but there are others.
https://www.hobbytools.com.au/mini-fibreglass-scratch-brush-pen-type/
  BrianBS Locomotive Driver

...................................
Also they use what they call a fibreglass cleaning pencil which again takes some practice to use the right way. And this does seem to work for stubborn paint that will not loosen up............................

Below is a photo of a typical Fibreglass Cleaning Pencil.



Here is one source of them but there are others.
https://www.hobbytools.com.au/mini-fibreglass-scratch-brush-pen-type/
DJPeters
They might be used as 'cleaning pencils' now, but originally, back in the 60's, they were most often used in engineering drawing offices, to carefully remove unwanted ink lines from tracing paper. I cut my teeth on one of these as a first year detail draughtsman (right spelling, draftsman was a generally dis-liked Americanism ).

We also used the outer corners of double-edged razor blades to carefully scrape the ink off the paper (followed by a burnish with a hard rubber), and in later years also used a cylindrical rubber in a small low-powered hand-held drill-like eraser.

I've still got mine, buried away somewhere, along with all my other draughtsman tools - not used in decades, superseded by CADD.
  a6et Minister for Railways

They might be used as 'cleaning pencils' now, but originally, back in the 60's, they were most often used in engineering drawing offices, to carefully remove unwanted ink lines from tracing paper. I cut my teeth on one of these as a first year detail draughtsman (right spelling, draftsman was a generally dis-liked Americanism ).

We also used the outer corners of double-edged razor blades to carefully scrape the ink off the paper (followed by a burnish with a hard rubber), and in later years also used a cylindrical rubber in a small low-powered hand-held drill-like eraser.

I've still got mine, buried away somewhere, along with all my other draughtsman tools - not used in decades, superseded by CADD.
BrianBS
I purchased one some years back that came in a package which also included brass wire tips, not just the softish fibres. You could turn the brass end of the ""Pencil"" to adjust the length of the brushes, which I found very handy for certain projects.

Only reason I found it was to look for Scratch Brush, it came up on Ebay as well as a smaller and thicker/rounded wire heads that you pull out of the tube or push in to set the length which meant harsh or soft scratching off of paint, I found that very useful for taking the gloss paint of wagons and some areas of a steam loco model to replicate weathering which it did quite well.

Both are very handy tools to have in the modelling tool box I would be careful trying to remove the decals with them though.  Alternative to trying to remove the decal may be to weather, or paint over it.
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
You lot are absolute marvels Smile.

I googled Pad Printing and got more clips to see on YouTube.

That said, you've all contributed something excellent as well, so I will delve further into the options and see what I get.

Thanks all very much for the tips

Regards

ps - thread back on track.

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