Millswood Station re-opening 12 month trial

 
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
soon the PIS on each Belair line pox box will announce:
"now arriving at Millswood, please mind the gap when alighting from the train".

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  Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

Location: Banned
soon the PIS on each Belair line pox box will announce:
"now arriving at Millswood, please mind the gap when alighting from the train".
Heath Loxton

Every day they announce "now arriving at North Haven" which is a single platform station just like Millswood yet I bet you've never even been there!
  1S47 Assistant Commissioner

Location: On the Down Fast
This week's Eastern Courier Messenger newspaper has this story about proposed timetable for the re-opened Millswood station.
Alternate peak-hour trains apparently will skip Millswood.

No real surprise, since the Mitcham - Showground section (soon to have 4 stations on single line sections) is already pretty much at capacity in the peak, even before Millswood reopens.
  1S47 Assistant Commissioner

Location: On the Down Fast
Your tax dollars at work.......   Progress at Millswood station, 31 August 2014.

A new concrete slab has been installed over the full area of the old platform.  Tactile paving is stacked up waiting for installation and frame of new passenger shelter is up.  Lighting & electrical work still pending.

This looks like a full-on construction project to the current Adelaide Metro specification for smaller stations - nothing "temporary" or "trial" about it.  Let's hope they don't conclude that patronage is too low and abandon the whole thing after 12 months.


  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Your tax dollars at work....... Progress at Millswood station, 31 August 2014.

A new concrete slab has been installed over the full area of the old platform. Tactile paving is stacked up waiting for installation and frame of new passenger shelter is up. Lighting & electrical work still pending.

This looks like a full-on construction project to the current Adelaide Metro specification for smaller stations - nothing "temporary" or "trial" about it. Let's hope they don't conclude that patronage is too low and abandon the whole thing after 12 months.
1S47

I doubt its a trial at all, once the station has been reopened, what is the cost of keeping it open? Re-paint the yellow line maybe once every few year, power for the lights???

I read through the timetable, normally you add about 30-60sec per stop, depending on track speed. there are comments that say its an extra 2min. Some of the non-stop services are actually slower.

ie The first two services of the day, 37min, express at 7:22 is 39min, the following stopper is 42min, the last peak express is 44min, the following is 42min.

Question for the punters is...How many people a day will make this "trial" successful? If it exceeds the bottom 10% of stations, that's probably good enough.
  AN830 Locomotive Driver

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
I doubt its a trial at all, once the station has been reopened, what is the cost of keeping it open? Re-paint the yellow line maybe once every few year, power for the lights???

I read through the timetable, normally you add about 30-60sec per stop, depending on track speed. there are comments that say its an extra 2min. Some of the non-stop services are actually slower.

ie The first two services of the day, 37min, express at 7:22 is 39min, the following stopper is 42min, the last peak express is 44min, the following is 42min.

Question for the punters is...How many people a day will make this "trial" successful? If it exceeds the bottom 10% of stations, that's probably good enough.
RTT_Rules


I doubt this is a trial as well, my bet is they'll look at closing Goodwood Station sometime in the future, rather than upgrade it to meet DDA requirements.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

It looks like a standard flat pack station to me. The shelter could be taken down and reinstalled at the next spot deemed worthy of a trial, or at one of those major bus stops which would get at least enough passengers every day to account for a few weeks' worth of Millswood train passengers.

Even the slab could be cut into three sections and taken elsewhere and mounted on different supports, maybe to Concordia 2.5km along from Gawler Central, if the trial fails. Options are open!
I read through the timetable, normally you add about 30-60sec per stop
"RTT_Rules"
We should have a dedicated term for so-called "timetables" like that which demand Formula 1 performance to make station stops, maybe fairy tables could catch on.

1.5 to 2 minutes used to work on the old Noarlunga timetables, it allowed enough time for deceleration/acceleration, platform dwell time and a touch of padding to allow for things not going to plan. If you're only allowing 60 seconds, there's no padding available to absorb time lost to a TSR or to a passenger needing the folding ramp to get on with their mobility panzerwagen, and on a single line with passing loops padding is important for avoiding a chain reaction of delays cascading through the rest of the day.

But this is Adelaide, we're too good to take the Ctrl+C Ctrl+V path to good transport. It's not just timetables where this applies, we're also trying to become the first place ever to prove that building freeways can solve congestion and that administrative tinkering is a substitute for quality infrastructure that calms traffic and facilitates active transport.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I doubt this is a trial as well, my bet is they'll look at closing Goodwood Station sometime in the future, rather than upgrade it to meet DDA requirements.
"AN830"
If it's intended as a Goodwood replacement it's been done all wrong.

A better position for a Goodwood replacement (which would have been called Millswood) would be where the new passing loop is currently located next to Arundel Avenue, with the old Millswood platform demolished to have the new passing loop built there instead and reduce the length of the Millswood-Mitcham single track segment.

So long as a footbridge was constructed over the Goodwood Road subway on the northern side of the tracks, the accessibility of a station at the current passing loop location would be infinitely superior to the current Millswood location. A more central location away from Goodwood Road would also have given it a proper point of difference over the G10/G20/G21/G30 bus routes with which the train frequency cannot compete.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
It looks like a standard flat pack station to me. The shelter could be taken down and reinstalled at the next spot deemed worthy of a trial, or at one of those major bus stops which would get at least enough passengers every day to account for a few weeks' worth of Millswood train passengers.

Even the slab could be cut into three sections and taken elsewhere and mounted on different supports, maybe to Concordia 2.5km along from Gawler Central, if the trial fails. Options are open!
We should have a dedicated term for so-called "timetables" like that which demand Formula 1 performance to make station stops, maybe fairy tables could catch on.

1.5 to 2 minutes used to work on the old Noarlunga timetables, it allowed enough time for deceleration/acceleration, platform dwell time and a touch of padding to allow for things not going to plan. If you're only allowing 60 seconds, there's no padding available to absorb time lost to a TSR or to a passenger needing the folding ramp to get on with their mobility panzerwagen, and on a single line with passing loops padding is important for avoiding a chain reaction of delays cascading through the rest of the day.

But this is Adelaide, we're too good to take the Ctrl+C Ctrl+V path to good transport. It's not just timetables where this applies, we're also trying to become the first place ever to prove that building freeways can solve congestion and that administrative tinkering is a substitute for quality infrastructure that calms traffic and facilitates active transport.
justapassenger

Hi
Yes I suppose the station has some reusable properties, even to just upgrade another existing station, but me thinks trial this is not.

Just looked up the Gawler timetable.
All stopper 56min
express missing 9 stations 50min
express missing 18 stations 44min

Doing the sums, that's 40sec saving per station missed stop for both fast and slower expresses. In QR land you will find 30-45sec for suburban stations. "stand clear, doors closing" apparently added a few minutes to each trip when introduced.

Doing the Physics assuming your train is doing say 70km/hr and allowing for braking and acceleration of 0.5ms-2 which is about half what I could find for most suburban rolling stock including DMU's Explorer and Velocity.

It takes about 300m to stop and same to back up to line speed. 35 sec to do both is 70sec.
If the train was not to stop but rather hold line speed of 70km/hr, then its 30sec to travel the same total distance.
Difference of 40sec (no I didn't work backwards, it came out this way based on assumptions of above).
So assume the SA trains brake and speed up faster to allow people 5-10 sec to get on/off at lightly used stations.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Just looked up the Gawler timetable.
"RTT_Rules"
Then you would have been looking in the fiction section.

There is no way that 56 minutes for a stopping train is achievable in the real world.
  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA

Just looked up the Gawler timetable.
All stopper 56min
express missing 9 stations 50min
express missing 18 stations 44min

Doing the sums, that's 40sec saving per station missed stop for both fast and slower expresses. In QR land you will find 30-45sec for suburban stations. "stand clear, doors closing" apparently added a few minutes to each trip when introduced.

Doing the Physics assuming your train is doing say 70km/hr and allowing for braking and acceleration of 0.5ms-2 which is about half what I could find for most suburban rolling stock including DMU's Explorer and Velocity.

It takes about 300m to stop and same to back up to line speed. 35 sec to do both is 70sec.
If the train was not to stop but rather hold line speed of 70km/hr, then its 30sec to travel the same total distance.
Difference of 40sec (no I didn't work backwards, it came out this way based on assumptions of above).
So assume the SA trains brake and speed up faster to allow people 5-10 sec to get on/off at lightly used stations

RTT_Rules

In my opinion, the current Gawler central weekend timetable is too tight. There's no time in the schedule to make up time. The running time should be 61 minutes for both directions, allowing for dwelling times at Salisbury and Elizabeth with a possibility to gain a minute or so if the train's running late. The schedule for the all stoppers used to be 56 minutes before changes to the speed limits in Adelaide yard, and the opening of Mawson Interchange, but this meant that the driver had to basically come to a stop, open the doors for 10 seconds, and depart and accelerate as fast as possible to keep the timetable, with no loading times taken into account, even at Elizabeth and Salisbury.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
The speed limits in Adelaide though are a real killer though my trip from my local station into Adelaide takes about 10 minutes or less but it can take the same amount of time to crawl through to the platform at Adelaide from the yard limit signs at the Torrens Bridges. So a 10 minute trip becomes 20 minutes or just slightly less just to get to Adelaide Platform. The Red Hens did it faster than that on the old trackage!
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Then you would have been looking in the fiction section.

There is no way that 56 minutes for a stopping train is achievable in the real world.
justapassenger

So every train is late every day?

Far enough that's the case, but if each station was even 90sec instead of the published 40 sec then that 50sec per station, over 18 stations the all stopper would be 15min late and the semi express 7.5min late.
  mclaren2007 Assistant Commissioner

Location: recharging my myki
Your tax dollars at work....... Progress at Millswood station, 31 August 2014.

A new concrete slab has been installed over the full area of the old platform. Tactile paving is stacked up waiting for installation and frame of new passenger shelter is up. Lighting & electrical work still pending.

This looks like a full-on construction project to the current Adelaide Metro specification for smaller stations - nothing "temporary" or "trial" about it. Let's hope they don't conclude that patronage is too low and abandon the whole thing after 12 months.


1S47


Maybe they could do the same thing to Torrens Park Wink
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
So every train is late every day?

Far enough that's the case, but if each station was even 90sec instead of the published 40 sec then that 50sec per station, over 18 stations the all stopper would be 15min late and the semi express 7.5min late.
"RTT_Rules"
Those figures are on a par with the pax reported late running on the Seaford line.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Maybe they could do the same thing to Torrens Park Wink
"mclaren2007"
Maybe they could have two in three trains skip the stop too. Four people would notice, but only after the skipping had been occurring for three months.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
So every train is late every day?

Far enough that's the case, but if each station was even 90sec instead of the published 40 sec then that 50sec per station, over 18 stations the all stopper would be 15min late and the semi express 7.5min late.
"RTT_Rules"
It may be of benefit to realise that 11.62% of 'audited' journeys are recorded as late running. That is for Rail Commissioner's odd reporting standards (which I regard as a clearly rigged joke), 11.62% of 'audited' services are more than 6 minutes late. When 5:59 late is regarded as on time having more than 10% of 'audited' services recorded as late is pretty poor.
  wisp Station Staff

Location: Adelaide
We should have a dedicated term for so-called "timetables" like that which demand Formula 1 performance to make station stops, maybe fairy tables could catch on.
justapassenger

How about "time fables"?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
^ yes kiddies and what is the moral of the Gawler Line time fable? - Don't catch the train to work and expect to be on time...
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
It may be of benefit to realise that 11.62% of 'audited' journeys are recorded as late running. That is for Rail Commissioner's odd reporting standards (which I regard as a clearly rigged joke), 11.62% of 'audited' services are more than 6 minutes late. When 5:59 late is regarded as on time having more than 10% of 'audited' services recorded as late is pretty poor.
Aaron

5-6min before being declared late is pretty normal I think across Australia. However I think QR is getting round 95%.

Anyway, this means 88-89% of trains are there within 6min which still means the 2min per stop allowance is a BS. Adding more timetable fat will help on time running statistics. Sydney did this a few years back. But if all it does is cover up the issues, whats the point.

QR regional trains including tilitrains have waiting periods everywhere adding at least 5-10min every few hundred km. The XPT doesn't and hence has a worse on time performance. At least the later has something to work towards to try and improve. the former just sits back and says what problem?
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
One thing that is different interstate in Sydney and Melbourne at least is the short dwell times at stations interstate. Here in SA the driver has to get out and place a ramp for wheelchairs to get in or out and it can add considerably to the lost time on a run. Two minutes or more is not uncommon in these circumstances. Some times you get not wheelchairs at all and other times you can get a couple or more on a run!
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
One thing that is different interstate in Sydney and Melbourne at least is the short dwell times at stations interstate. Here in SA the driver has to get out and place a ramp for wheelchairs to get in or out and it can add considerably to the lost time on a run. Two minutes or more is not uncommon in these circumstances. Some times you get not wheelchairs at all and other times you can get a couple or more on a run!
David Peters

I believe the drivers in Melbourne have the same job description and their trains are twice as long.

Transperth is not clear on their website, so not sure what the go is there.

Brisbane and Sydney will more than likely start to follow suit in the next 5-10 years.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

5-6min before being declared late is pretty normal I think across Australia. However I think QR is getting round 95%.
"RTT_Rules"
And you wonder why people call their local train operators names like CityFail and Adelaide Retro.

95% performance on a 5 minute margin is nothing to brag about, even bus operators can hit that if they have competent management who invest in their drivers' training.
Anyway, this means 88-89% of trains are there within 6min which still means the 2min per stop allowance is a BS. Adding more timetable fat will help on time running statistics. Sydney did this a few years back. But if all it does is cover up the issues, whats the point.

QR regional trains including tilitrains have waiting periods everywhere adding at least 5-10min every few hundred km. The XPT doesn't and hence has a worse on time performance. At least the later has something to work towards to try and improve. the former just sits back and says what problem?
"RTT_Rules"
This would have to be a contender for the dumbest thing I've ever read on this site, it would seem that those stories about Dubai existing in an alternate reality are true.

The point is that when people look at a timetable they are looking to find out when the trains are running in reality, and they value confidence in the system much more than saving a couple of minutes here and there. The timetable is not the place for printing fantasies about how much faster they could become at some point in the future, that sort of stuff has plenty of opportunity to get out there via posters and press releases websites and project pitches without infecting timetables.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

I believe the drivers in Melbourne have the same job description and their trains are twice as long.

Transperth is not clear on their website, so not sure what the go is there.

Brisbane and Sydney will more than likely start to follow suit in the next 5-10 years.
RTT_Rules

Can you please confirm this.

For a driver to leave a cab is a safety issue and a recipe for SPADs, special buttons, rings, collars and other reminder gadgets aside.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Can you please confirm this.

For a driver to leave a cab is a safety issue and a recipe for SPADs, special buttons, rings, collars and other reminder gadgets aside.
steam4ian

Confirm what? Melbourne trains have only have the driver and so do Adelaide. If a passenger needs assistance, there is no one else to assist.

There has been numerous discussion in the Qld section on moving to DOO and the potential road blocks in doing so and that its been stated a few times (unconfirmed) that QR is more keen on DOO than the previous and current govt, for now.

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