How does your ticketing system work?

 
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Your understanding is related to the old system rather than the new one which retained just the compatibility with the old tickets. The biggest change is that each validation now has a code relating to the service being operated instead of the old validators having a vehicle ID number set permanently.

With the new system:
• The validators on the Adelaide Station ticket gates are actual validators, not just checking the ticket/card status. A validation or transfer is recorded every time you use them.
• Where the most recent validation was on an inbound train service, the Adelaide Station ticket gates give you an extra grace period of about half an hour beyond the two hour transfer period to allow a journey with a transfer to be completed.
• If your most recent transfer was not on an inbound train (i.e. it was on a bus, tram or outbound train), then you'll have a new fare validated when you try to exit at Adelaide Station on a Metrocard, or a complete rejection on a ticket.
• You can enter the Adelaide platforms and then leave again through the ticket barriers, because they are actual validators.
• You can re-validate on a round trip even on the same vehicle (because the code relating to the service gets changed at the terminus).
• You can not change cars (i.e. getting off and swapping cars at an intermediate stop) on the same train and re-validate, because the service code will be the same.

The new system also allows a Metrocard to be used for other services, such as the $2 Park and Ride at TTP Interchange or the new bike lockups. An interesting feature of the TTP parking is that a higher casual parking rate of $10 is charged if the Metrocard is not validated to start a trip on a bus afterwards.

Sponsored advertisement

  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Thanks for that Justapax it explains a lot that you do not get told by Adelaide Metro!
  1S47 Assistant Commissioner

Location: On the Down Fast
. . . . . .
• Where the most recent validation was on an inbound train service, the Adelaide Station ticket gates give you an extra grace period of about half an hour beyond the two hour transfer period to allow a journey with a transfer to be completed.
. . . . . . . .
justapassenger

This "period of grace, then deduct an extra fare" rule at the Adelaide gateline could disadvantage some train passengers from outer suburbs, compared to longer distance metro bus trips.

The general rule throughout all modes on Adelaide Metro is "validate when boarding, then travel as far as you like on that bus/train/tram".

Suppose you are a passenger with a MetroCard or paper ticket in your hand which is close to the end of its 2 hour validity - say with 1hr 55min gone.  You could:-

- Board a 721 bus at Noarlunga and travel >1 hour to city - no extra fare deducted.
- Board a 228 bus at Smithfield and travel >1 hour to city - no extra fare deducted.
- Board a train at Adelaide station and alight at Noarlunga Centre - no extra fare deducted.
- Board a train at Adelaide station and travel to Gawler Central - no extra fare deduced.
- Board a train at Smithfield or Noarlunga and travel 40-odd minutes into Adelaide, and get hit with another fare when you exit the station gates.

Does this extra fare or rejection of paper tickets really happen?  I can imagine some passengers getting agro (or ringing talkback radio) if their ticket was valid when they got on the train, they took a simple, legitimate journey and then were told it wasn't valid & they had to pay again when they get off.

Maybe the grace period should be 65 or 70 mins - the longest possible train trip into Adelaide (from Gawler Central all stops), plus a bit of walking and delay time.

The other features of the system listed by justapassenger seem reasonable and sensible.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I was told it was "about half an hour" by a PSA, I haven't put it to the test.

I don't think a grace period of only half an hour is against the spirit of the two hour ticket though, no single journey starting/finishing at Adelaide with direct transfers is any longer than two hours. To go over two and half hours you would have to go touring all around the place (paying an extra fare for using extra services is fair) or be putting a lengthy break in the middle between two journeys (paying two fares for two journeys is fair).

I suppose that a badly delayed feeder bus (e.g. broken down between Aldinga and Maslins) could make for a direct journey longer than two hours and starting to approach 2:30 if it's a complete failure and the response is poor (thank goodness Transfield doesn't operate any further out than Aberfoyle Park!) but that could be easily solved by updating the Metrocard validators to process refunds - something that should be a simple job given that the system is already used for extra applications such as bike cages and car parking. A bus driver would call control, control would give them an authorisation code to enter on their Metrocard control unit, then the passengers would touch their cards on the validator to receive an extension of validity for an hour to allow the completion of the delayed journey and a full refund as compensation for the extreme delay. People with Metrotickets would simply ask the driver to issue a new one.
Trains should have fare refunds enabled automatically, as soon as it arrives at a stop any than 10 minutes behind passengers could re-validate to get a 50% refund, and 20+ minutes would give them back the full fare.

People would have more confidence in the public transport system if it was to stand by its commitments and refund fares when the service is not delivered, and the loss of revenue would quickly force the operators to improve their standard of service.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

This "period of grace, then deduct an extra fare" rule at the Adelaide gateline could disadvantage some train passengers from outer suburbs, compared to longer distance metro bus trips.

The general rule throughout all modes on Adelaide Metro is "validate when boarding, then travel as far as you like on that bus/train/tram".

Suppose you are a passenger with a MetroCard or paper ticket in your hand which is close to the end of its 2 hour validity - say with 1hr 55min gone. You could:-

- Board a 721 bus at Noarlunga and travel >1 hour to city - no extra fare deducted.
- Board a 228 bus at Smithfield and travel >1 hour to city - no extra fare deducted.
- Board a train at Adelaide station and alight at Noarlunga Centre - no extra fare deducted.
- Board a train at Adelaide station and travel to Gawler Central - no extra fare deduced.
- Board a train at Smithfield or Noarlunga and travel 40-odd minutes into Adelaide, and get hit with another fare when you exit the station gates.

Does this extra fare or rejection of paper tickets really happen? I can imagine some passengers getting agro (or ringing talkback radio) if their ticket was valid when they got on the train, they took a simple, legitimate journey and then were told it wasn't valid & they had to pay again when they get off.

Maybe the grace period should be 65 or 70 mins - the longest possible train trip into Adelaide (from Gawler Central all stops), plus a bit of walking and delay time.

The other features of the system listed by justapassenger seem reasonable and sensible.
1S47


This is wrong on several occasions I have validated my card at Seaford station with literally only a couple of minutes to spare on the 2 hour window when I got to the ARS I was able to exit the gates every time fine in fact I've NEVER seen the gates ever deduct a fare from my card when departing the ARS its only when entering the ARS gates I see the fare deducted.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

This is wrong on several occasions I have validated my card at Seaford station with literally only a couple of minutes to spare on the 2 hour window when I got to the ARS I was able to exit the gates every time fine in fact I've NEVER seen the gates ever deduct a fare from my card when departing the ARS its only when entering the ARS gates I see the fare deducted.
"Milkomeda"
It's me you should be replying to - I was the one repeating a comment by a PSA that the grace period is only half an hour.

Thanks for confirming that it is long enough for a whole Seaford trip, as I said before I haven't had the chance to test the grace period beyond about 5-10 minutes.

I wonder whether I was told that because staff are directed to obfuscate when asked about details of the ticketing system, or perhaps because a PSA has to work it out themselves with their training only extending to putting it in the machine and seeing if a green light comes on? I'm not keen on either option - one makes a mockery of transparency and the other goes against all principles of professional standards for revenue protection staff.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
As long as you validate your ticket or Metrocard before the time is up for your present trip you can go as far as you like on that vehicle even if the time is up just minutes after you validate it. You only need to validate it once. You can complete your trip to where ever you are going to as long as you are still on the vehicle that validated your ticket or card.

So you get through the barriers at ARS and get onto the Gawler train with 5 minutes to spare, immediately validate your ticket on the train ASAP after getting on you can then go all the way to Gawler Central if you want to as your ticket was valid when it was placed in or near the validator. Don't be bullied by some PSA's that state you need another valid ticket, you do not need one unless you get off this train and get on a bus say. You are allowed to complete your journey on the original ticket even after the time has run out on it!
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
It's me you should be replying to - I was the one repeating a comment by a PSA that the grace period is only half an hour.

Thanks for confirming that it is long enough for a whole Seaford trip, as I said before I haven't had the chance to test the grace period beyond about 5-10 minutes.

I wonder whether I was told that because staff are directed to obfuscate when asked about details of the ticketing system, or perhaps because a PSA has to work it out themselves with their training only extending to putting it in the machine and seeing if a green light comes on? I'm not keen on either option - one makes a mockery of transparency and the other goes against all principles of professional standards for revenue protection staff.
justapassenger

Correct, it's 'approximately' (probably exactly, because computers don't do approximates) 30 mins beyond the two hour limit. That is, the system will allow you some bonus time for the late running of trains and delays etc in getting off the train, and off the platform concourse. In fact, the 'grace' period could almost be indefinite, the system knows the service you validated on, so long as you don't leave the platform it should always allow you to leave without an additional validation.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Don't be bullied by some PSA's that state you need another valid ticket, you do not need one unless you get off this train and get on a bus say. You are allowed to complete your journey on the original ticket even after the time has run out on it!
David Peters

And I suspect that once again if requested you'd not be able to provide details of the 'bullying PSA' that did this other than some hearsay story? EVERY PSA would know that, and none of them would expect you to revalidate, that aside from the fact that the system wouldn't let you anyway.

Did you miss this?

The biggest change is that each validation now has a code relating to the service being operated

With the new system:

• You can not change cars (i.e. getting off and swapping cars at an intermediate stop) on the same train and re-validate, because the service code will be the same.
justapassenger
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Aaron I have seen this and it is simply that some of the PSA's usually the newer ones have not had the system properly explained to them on the day. I witnessed this happening he was overruled by the other PSA who said that you did not need another ticket. They both returned to one end of the car and the older looking one seemed to be giving the other one a bit of a talking too. The woman he did it too was quite upset at the time and the other PSA came back after talking to the other one and again apologized for his off siders remarks etc. I had to get off at the next stop so I don't know what else happened, but happen it did. It has happened on more than one occasion on the Outer Harbor line at least, as I know of two other instances of it, it might have been the same PSA though but I don't for sure. These two occasions were before the incident I witnessed! By the way I was told about the other two instances by a PSA who is a friend of mine!

Why in the name of God should I need to provide details to you you bush lawyer, I know what I saw and so did a few other people, where you on the train. no, so don't tell me what I did or did not see. I was sitting right behind the seat she had on the train!
  torrens5022 Junior Train Controller

I was once on a train at ARS with a friend, his ticket was close to expiring and he inserted it into the machine and it was valid, this was few minutes before the train was due to depart - The PSA on the train got angry and threatened to fine him because the ticket expired a minute or two before the train was due to depart, even though it had been validated on that vehicle.
  ARG706 Chief Commissioner

Location: SA
Validating is something you do to indicate that you've paid for the trip. It doesn't have to be done after the train has already left the place where the passenger has boarded. If a ticket had to be valid for the entire duration of the trip, then they would need more than one PSA on the train just to issue the number of fines given. I think that PSA needs a proper explanation of the rules given to him, instead of being so focused on revenue raising for the government.
  torrens5022 Junior Train Controller

This was a while back, my recent encounters with PSA have been much better.  Lot's of PSA on the Belair line today - seriously the inbound Train was half full by Blackwood - why is it only an hourly service on weekends?
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

This was a while back, my recent encounters with PSA have been much better. Lot's of PSA on the Belair line today - seriously the inbound Train was half full by Blackwood - why is it only an hourly service on weekends?
torrens5022


Thats because of the March in May rally today there are alot of protesters flocking to the city today normally the Belair Line is nowhere near that packed (Belair Line has the lowest patronage of the 4 main lines)

Seaford Line was very packed today I heard as well.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I was once on a train at ARS with a friend, his ticket was close to expiring and he inserted it into the machine and it was valid, this was few minutes before the train was due to depart - The PSA on the train got angry and threatened to fine him because the ticket expired a minute or two before the train was due to depart, even though it had been validated on that vehicle.
torrens5022

That ticket is valid even if he was going to Gawler Central as long as it was validated before the expiry time on the ticket, it is valid till you and your friend leave that vehicle! You only have to validate it once and most people do it getting on.

So Aaron do you want details of this incident as well, why I will never know. You don't seem to think anyone else in this world is right, except you of course you are always right! Rolling EyesRolling Eyes
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

This was a while back, my recent encounters with PSA have been much better.  Lot's of PSA on the Belair line today…
"torrens5022"
That's normal every day, they love Belair off-peak trains because there's plenty of space for them to sit down (a PSA must not occupy a seat while passengers are standing), the lowest proportion of bogans and the lowest proportion of fare evaders. All that combines to make for a pleasant trip and a low level of work.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: Pressman, seb2351, witsend

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.