Former 'Murraylander' sets and 909/907- situation update

 
  BB 260 Locomotive Fireman

well
To answer to the comments below I give my reason, Queensland Education decided they would employ a polite Romanian teacher with the only problem being she was not an English teacher but that's the subject I had her for throughout school

If you are the 'futher' then rail preservation is up the 'it' creek, however if you are the 'future' then it's a different story.http://www.railpage.com.au/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif
Sulzer, while you are at school take the opportunity to study editing and spelling skills. They may come in handy one day, especially when drawing up your future Regional Rail contracts.
sulzer

Gents. I think you have well and truly OFF the thread. What has all this got to do with the 909 and 907.
Perhaps start a new thread and continue with this c..p.

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  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
....What Aaron is saying is that nothing would have saved it. I just don't agree with that proposition; as Brian says above, had they converted the line (as they ultimately did with Pinaroo/Loxton) then maybe (just maybe) there would still have been some viable intra- and inter-state freight coming out of the South East.
don_dunstan

I once passed through Mount Gambier in my sleeper on the 'Overland'. There had been a derailment on the main line to the West of Ararat, and my train was diverted. It was late on arrival, but not unduly so.

The Ararat-Portland line is standard gauge. If the Mount Gambier lines had been converted, the second city in the state and the many industries en route and to Millicent could have been connected to the national network at relatively little cost. Perhaps the better access to markets and a deep water regional port may just have saved the paper mill and state forestry from their demise, fostered new industries and provided some of the new employment opportunities that certain loud mouths say ad nauseam will magically appear out of nowhere.

Lack of government enterprise because of the furphy that it has to make profits has cost this nation and state dearly, not least in the fostering of private industries. Past governments of both persuasions knew this. Tom Playford knew this. Some Cassandras in this discussion who from their postings would seem to vote for the party which he once led clearly don't.

Now, solely from the neglect that has ensued because of the Commonwealth's neglect of its moral duty to the people and state whose property it hijacked, it is now likely that the roads that we pay for will continue to be dangerous with the passing of numerous heavy trucks owned by a subsidised virtual private monopoly.

We primitive beings of the past got along just fine when one broad gauge connected our two nearest capitals and almost all of the important parts of their hinterlands. You modern thinkers and we remaining oldies now have one of the worst rail systems in the western world.
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
Gents. I think you have well and truly OFF the thread. What has all this got to do with the 909 and 907.
Perhaps start a new thread and continue with this c..p.
BB 260

You are correct, BB 260. Unfortunately human conversations change like this when a new idea relevant to what has gone before excites comment in its own right. So here we have a debate about spelling and grammar and another about the viability of the Mount Gambier line being conducted simultaneously. Both grew out of the original topic.

We have quite possibly come to the end of the latter because all of us who care have already posted our opinions. As for the matter of English expression and spelling, if I were to comment (and I am very well qualified so to do) on the egregious errors made by many members, we'd really be spending time and bandwidth in irrelevancies.

If there are new comments posted about the Mount Gambier railway, I would agree with you, and respectfully ask the moderators to shift that debate to lie under a new and appropriate heading.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Mods can change the title of a thread if they wish. Given the topics discussed are still under the general heading of South Australia's regional railways I don't feel it's wandered too far away.
  sulzer Junior Train Controller

Location: QLD
I've been told that lots of people are showing interest but nothing is happening, most of us probably just wanted to know information - but there are others In witch want to do things ......... like restore a length of line Laughing
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The Ararat-Portland line is standard gauge. If the Mount Gambier lines had been converted, the second city in the state and the many industries en route and to Millicent could have been connected to the national network at relatively little cost. Perhaps the better access to markets and a deep water regional port may just have saved the paper mill and state forestry from their demise, fostered new industries and provided some of the new employment opportunities that certain loud mouths say ad nauseam will magically appear out of nowhere.
SAR526

I think that's the crux of the problem; there's a lot of discussions about how the market provides jobs and a low taxation economy but the reality is it's things like historically good infrastructure and services that really sustains us as a nation.  Providing access rail freight infrastructure allows the economy of scale to ship bulk/heavy goods at a better price than road can ever hope to compete with and there could have been more industry down there with access to the national rail network. Being on standard gauge would have brought all sorts of economies of scale and shipping virtually anywhere on the eastern seaboard.

Could have also added to the national rail network as you pointed out earlier - some additional redundancy built into the system in case of accidents or maintenance.  Unfortunately I think the opportunity to do the work was completely missed in 1995 - since the line has fallen into really bad repair and has been lifted in places.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
If the Pinnaroo line that was standard gauged had been bought up to proper mainline standard then on the Victorian side the line was converted to SG and upgraded to mainline standards as well then this would have been a better bypass track than through Mt Gambier, as it would a lot less distance for starters! Could you imagine the time taken to get a train diverted all the way down to Mt Gambier really it might add hours onto the trip. Sure it would open up the region a bit but I don't think after all this time it would actually do anything really. How many towns and cities along a rail now actually get anything at all by rail these days! Look at all the places that the trains now simply pass by trains these days are more about moving things in bulk rather than dropping stuff off in each town or city!
  SAR526 Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, South Australia.
If the Pinnaroo line that was standard gauged had been bought up to proper mainline standard then on the Victorian side the line was converted to SG and upgraded to mainline standards as well then this would have been a better bypass track than through Mt Gambier....
David Peters

You have entirely misunderstood my posting. I didn't write about diverting anything except in an emergency. There were once three possible broad gauge routes from Melbourne to Adelaide – via Pinnaroo, Bordertown and Mount Gambier. I have travelled by all three.
The 'Overland' on which I was a passenger was diverted via Mount Gambier because of a derailment to the West of Ararat on one and probably the only occasion. Now if anything happens on the Bordertown line, there can only be a total shutdown until the problem is solved.

What I am concerned about has nothing to do with diversion, but everything about connecting heavy industry in the South East directly to its markets via the standard gauge network, now almost certainly an impossible dream. In other words, I hope that the Commonwealth will one day complete its half-baked standardisation and repair some of the tremendous damage that it has done to the rights and amenities of the citizens of Victoria and South Australia.

So that you will understand, that means the complete standardisation of all broad gauge lines to the West of Melbourne, and in particular the Mount Gambier and Ouyen-Pinnaroo-Tailem Bend lines. Then the 'Overland' could once again resume its original route, or run via Geelong North Shore and Ballarat, and leave the Pleurisy Plains to the freight trains.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
....

So that you will understand, that means the complete standardisation of all broad gauge lines to the West of Melbourne, and in particular the Mount Gambier and Ouyen-Pinnaroo-Tailem Bend lines. Then the 'Overland' could once again resume its original route, or run via Geelong North Shore and Ballarat, and leave the Pleurisy Plains to the freight trains.
SAR526

This has been discussed on various Victorian threads on the topic.  It's not out of the question as our current Liberal government has promised to standardise Geelong-Mildura via Ballarat but it isn't funded in the current budget; it would be a great idea to provide that 250km bypass option.

There could have been multiple redundant options for ARTC between Adelaide and Melbourne if standardisation had been completed in this way.  I think the opportunity has been well and truly missed now - there's always a chance they may go ahead with Mildura standardisation and perhaps they'll at least get the second option through Ouyen/Pinaroo; the track is in poor condition but you would have to assume that ARTC would help out if the line was made part of their network?

Its hard to know if the SA regional network could have been saved with comprehensive standardisation; it's one of those questions that will forever be out there in the ether.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

G'day all.

I don't want to cross swords with anybody but will risk it any way.

Apart from grain there is not much left in SA worthy of carting by rail. The Stoney is no longer required nor justified. Iron ore mines are closing. Industry in SA is virtually defunct. (I know I am sounding like somebody else on this forum) Road vehicles have become more efficient and effective and those operators don't have to pay directly for using the RoW (road).

Rail in SA is going down an inevitable path. Oblivion!

The only lights at the end of the tunnel would be a political change that forces road operators to pay or major new bulk commodity industries. The latter is unlikely and neither side of politics will have the political will to impose the former.

See you back in SA next week.

Meanwhile Boeing are still transporting 737 bodies by rail across the USA even if three of them did finish up in a river in Manitoba.

Regards
Ian
  MD Chief Commissioner

Location: Canbera
The basic economics of the entire rail industry is changing.
Trains are becoming much longer and heavier, which means that there has to be sufficient loading
to make up a 1500 + meter train with a load of 3000 + tonnes.
Its easy to do with bulk commodities like iron ore or coal, a bit harder with grain , and only viable for intermodals
between major capitals.
Most of the major operators are using 4000 HP 23 tonne axle load locos which are essentially confined to the
main lines.
Unless there is some kind of passenger service which justifies keeping a line open , most of the regional lines will ultimately close,
and thats everywhere, not just in SA.
Its progress, unfortunately.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
G'day all.

I don't want to cross swords with anybody but will risk it any way.

Apart from grain there is not much left in SA worthy of carting by rail. The Stoney is no longer required nor justified. Iron ore mines are closing. Industry in SA is virtually defunct. (I know I am sounding like somebody else on this forum) Road vehicles have become more efficient and effective and those operators don't have to pay directly for using the RoW (road).

Rail in SA is going down an inevitable path. Oblivion!

The only lights at the end of the tunnel would be a political change that forces road operators to pay or major new bulk commodity industries. The latter is unlikely and neither side of politics will have the political will to impose the former.

See you back in SA next week.

Meanwhile Boeing are still transporting 737 bodies by rail across the USA even if three of them did finish up in a river in Manitoba.

Regards
Ian
steam4ian

You are being negative here steam4ian that is my job to do that on here.Laughing


But you are right though that is about all that is left and that too is slowly being put to road as well unfortunately!
  Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
just some food for thought here Railpage users:

if the murraylander cars were restored what would there best use be?

A) monthly excursion trains.
B) daily regional v line style commuter trains.
C) GSR style weekly tourist trains?

I believe in GSR style tourist trains as we just don't have the population base for regular commuter service.
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

just some food for thought here Railpage users:

if the murraylander cars were restored what would there best use be?

A) monthly excursion trains.
B) daily regional v line style commuter trains.
C) GSR style weekly tourist trains?

I believe in GSR style tourist trains as we just don't have the population base for regular commuter service.
Heath Loxton

Dear Heath ,

GSR already have passenger carriages and run tourist trains .

They would have no need for the Murray lander cars .

please keep all dreaming to yourself heath .
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
just some food for thought here Railpage users:

if the murraylander cars were restored what would there best use be?

A) monthly excursion trains.
B) daily regional v line style commuter trains.
C) GSR style weekly tourist trains?

I believe in GSR style tourist trains as we just don't have the population base for regular commuter service.
Heath Loxton

They could always be used to supplement DPTI's carriage availability. Especially necessary with the epic loadings to be realised from Millswood.
  monday Chief Commissioner

Its as simple as this - nobody wants to ride in junk carriages with an awful interior to dull 'ghost town' destinations in South Australia either in the Mallee, Port Pirie or to Port Augusta, not even if it were cheap - you simply couldnt give tickets away to it.

Its great you feel passionate about it, and awesome to have a dream (no one can take that from you), but the real world doesn't care about this rotting pile of junk at Tailem Bend.

Long before the bar was raised in terms of rail safety and all other hurdles (and subsequent vandalism), those involved couldnt make it work - what was once very difficult to achieve 15 years ago is now impossible.
  Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
Hi,
well how does QR's Inlander survive then?
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Hi,
well how does QR's Inlander survive then?
"Heath Loxton"

It serves a district with a permanent population of 30,900 people (2012)
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Hi,
well how does QR's Inlander survive then?
Heath Loxton

Not for very much longer.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

They could always be used to supplement DPTI's carriage availability. Especially necessary with the epic loadings to be realised from Millswood.
Aaron

LaughingLaughingLaughing
  SAR523 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Chicago, IL
Heath: some free advice.

There are a couple of preservation societies who have engines that go and rolling stock that people can ride in and are already located at places people actually visit in the state.

They are always in need of volunteer help. Like all groups of people there is a variety of characters but they all have a common goal that (normally) gets worked towards.

You have dreams and that's great. So do they. You might find it easier to realise yours along with others who are.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Heath: some free advice.

There are a couple of preservation societies who have engines that go and rolling stock that people can ride in and are already located at places people actually visit in the state.

They are always in need of volunteer help. Like all groups of people there is a variety of characters but they all have a common goal that (normally) gets worked towards.

You have dreams and that's great. So do they. You might find it easier to realise yours along with others who are.
SAR523

Heath,

That is very sound advice.

Hopefully your youthful exuberance hasn't worn out you welcome at the places SAR523 mentioned. When (not if) you do join enter the hallowed halls very quietly, do lots of looking, little talking and initially at least, even fewer questions apart from "can I help?" Be prepared to sweep the floor and do other menial tasks and you will ultimately find yourself being asked to help with things more interesting. Keep out of organisational politics.

Ian:)
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Children must be seen and not heard?

No wonder rail heritage organisations are finding it hard to find new volunteers willing to do the dusting in their "hallowed halls."
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Children must be seen and not heard?

No wonder rail heritage organisations are finding it hard to find new volunteers willing to do the dusting in their "hallowed halls."
justapassenger

Would never have picked you for a member of Generation Y Razz
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Children must be seen and not heard?

No wonder rail heritage organisations are finding it hard to find new volunteers willing to do the dusting in their "hallowed halls."
justapassenger

Absolutely correct. I just happen to know of a certain person (not from South Australia) probably in their 50s now, but 40s at the time, who attended a railway preservation group and without stating full qualifiaction volunteered to help about the place primarily by performing their various welding tasks. Told quite sharply the group had enough 'welders' so the person now presumably does something else in their spare time.

This person was one of a few people called in after some foreigners and mis-trained Aussies had been found wanting when it came to welding perhaps the most expensive pressure vessels we have in the nation. They were at the time and as far as I still know, still are a professor of welding at an Australian university.

Kind of like a more direct friend of mine who locally works in a field somewhat similar to steamforian, who when approaching a local group was informed that they could be someone who helped out in the station when the train arrived...

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