Former 'Murraylander' sets and 909/907- situation update

 
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
i recently had to conduct a business plan for regional rail in SA as part of a school project

this is what i come up with:

1) one year of prep upgrades of 7 of steves good carriages.
2) six months of once montly trial railfan services from Adelaide to Whyalla. Broken hill and Bordertown.
3) one year of twice weekly whyalla and once weekly rail services to broken hill and bordertown.
4) expanding staff obtaining and restoring the wine train for a thrice weekly barossa service.
5) obtaining the CB class railcar from port augusta and runnning it montly to parachilna, loxton and Pinarroo for the railfans.

thoughts on my A+ school project?
Heath Loxton

If it's a business plan then you would very easily be able to tell us what this would cost and who would fund it.

I'm not holding my breath.

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  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The Barossa line will not survive as a tourist line only.
"allan"

I hope that there could be a farewell trip on the line . But yet again what is on broad gauge . Adelaide metro train or maybe a NRM Red hen special .
"BIG-BEAR"
The Barossa line would have to be rebuilt to have even a tourist service or a 'farewell' enthusiast special, if it was in a fit state to take paying passengers there would be Tour Down Under specials operating every January. GWA doesn't believe in investing in their [leased] assets to maintain or generate business, they like to sweat the assets until they have no value left and then abandon them.
Is there any potential for suburban services in that direction?
"allan"
There is very real potential for extension of the DEMU service to new stations at Concordia and possibly Kalbeeba, 3.2km and 5.1km along the line from Gawler Central at the edge of the Gawler urban sprawl.

This could easily be the best bang-for-buck rail project in the state. The lease on that section of the corridor could be bought out for $1 (overvalued for administrative purposes, the actual value to GWA is $0 at best if they aren't running trains on it), cheap and cheerful flat-pack stations erected (like single platform versions of St Clair), the track repaired and a couple of signals relocated.

The cost of the track renewal would be defrayed by using it as an exercise for training up a new in-house infrastructure maintenance crew. Once completed, they would then be able to be put to work doing regular maintenance (I expect to be shouted down on this count, unrealistic revolutionary proposals aren't really tolerated on this site) on the rest of the Adelaide Metro network instead of leaving the tracks to rot for 15-20 years until they need major capital works to rebuild from scratch.

As for extending Adelaide Metro trains beyond the Gawler urban sprawl into the Barossa Valley proper? No.
Or, to put it more plainly, is any attempt being made to beef up the population base in the Valley as has been done at Mt Barker? Or, is the real estate too valuable for that?
"allan"

There is a growing resistance to development in the Southern Vales region which appears to have Planning Department support. The wine industry has a big pull.

All this suggests that any significant increases in town sizes in the Barossa Valley, east of Lyndoch', will face significant opposition. To expand the population to a size which justified a rail based public transport system would mean the valley would be taken over by tar and cement.
"steam4ian"
In both the Barossa (taking the loose definition of "anything east-north-east of Gawler" and not the actual definition) and the Willunga Basin there is also a fair amount of mundane agriculture as well as the wine industry. This is important for food security and should be protected until all of Adelaide has been through at least one cycle of urban renewal.

As I wrote already, extending suburban rail through the areas already lost to urban sprawl (i.e. to Concordia and maybe Kalbeeba) is very realistic, but it shouldn't go further into the Barossa Valley proper unless the locals show there's demand by packing the existing buses to the gunwales. Even if the demand materialised, it's doubtful that even a fully rebuilt rail corridor would actually present an improvement thanks to the twisty alignment.
  seb2351 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Hmmm, yes I will immediately round up the investors now, based on a document with no real research, marked by a person with no business experience and prepared  by an individual who is yet to even submit a tax return,  never mind have any financial understanding of the real world.

Heath, your posts are bordering on the insane and are far better off in the armchair operator thread.

Enthusiasim never replaces knowledge or experience, but by all means continue to dream.
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels
i recently had to conduct a business plan for regional rail in SA as part of a school project

this is what i come up with:

1) one year of prep upgrades of 7 of steves good carriages.
2) six months of once montly trial railfan services from Adelaide to Whyalla. Broken hill and Bordertown.
3) one year of twice weekly whyalla and once weekly rail services to broken hill and bordertown.
4) expanding staff obtaining and restoring the wine train for a thrice weekly barossa service.
5) obtaining the CB class railcar from port augusta and runnning it montly to parachilna, loxton and Pinarroo for the railfans.

thoughts on my A+ school project?
Heath Loxton

Your teacher should be sacked.

And do your research, the Budd car can't go south, it is too big!!!
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

i recently had to conduct a business plan for regional rail in SA as part of a school project

this is what i come up with:

1) one year of prep upgrades of 7 of steves good carriages.
2) six months of once montly trial railfan services from Adelaide to Whyalla. Broken hill and Bordertown.
3) one year of twice weekly whyalla and once weekly rail services to broken hill and bordertown.
4) expanding staff obtaining and restoring the wine train for a thrice weekly barossa service.
5) obtaining the CB class railcar from port augusta and runnning it montly to parachilna, loxton and Pinarroo for the railfans.

thoughts on my A+ school project?
"Heath Loxton"
There are just five plausible conclusions to explain this outcome of you getting an A+ for sh1te like that:
1) the subject was creative writing, and the teacher had not read Help Fund My Robot Army for an example of the 'business pitch' genre being done properly.
2) the subject was not creative writing, but the teacher was on the wacky tobaccy.
3) the subject was not creative writing, but the teacher gave you a good grade to avoid having to argue about it with you.
4) we have a sh1thouse education system.
5) you're lying (or deluded) and it didn't get an A+, assuming it was even a project in the first place.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
There is very real potential for extension of the DEMU service to new stations at Concordia and Kalbeeba, 3.2km and 5.1km along the line from Gawler Central at the edge of the Gawler urban sprawl.
justapassenger

There was a study done some years ago into the viability of extending the peak hour DEMU service to Kapunda. I think there was a finding of 'not viable - yet'.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

There was a study done some years ago into the viability of extending the peak hour DEMU service to Kapunda. I think there was a finding of 'not viable - yet'.
"don_dunstan"
Different line. That one is off the Roseworthy line that goes straight ahead after Gawler, not off the end of the Gawler Central line which turns right after Gawler, and the distance would be about 37km of rebuilt track, not 3-5km as with an extension within the already-populated suburbs of Gawler.

I agree that extending metro service to Concordia is not going to happen soon, primarily thanks to neither major political party in SA being a true supporter of sustainable transport. Even the ALP only does just enough to get themselves re-elected.

Roseworthy might be realistic at some point, that's only 8km on from Gawler. Just like the Barossa line, that route is non-operational and therefore the lease could be bought out for a peppercorn.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Different line. That one is off the Roseworthy line that goes straight ahead after Gawler, not off the end of the Gawler Central line which turns right after Gawler.

I agree that extending metro service to Concordia is not going to happen soon, primarily thanks to neither major political party in SA being a true supporter of sustainable transport. Even the ALP only does just enough to get themselves re-elected.
justapassenger

Well... talking generally of an extension to the DEMU services.

I think Ian's post was fairly pertinent though - we shouldn't be encouraging those exurb developments without jobs being present first. There's an article in today's Age about the growing unemployment and social isolation in those urban fringe places and if you are already poor and unemployed they are not a good place to be.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Viability doesn't matter in the decision making processes involved though. If viability was important the duplication of the Southern Expressway would not have proceeded (thanks to Main South Road having plenty of spare capacity in the contra-peak directions) but the political circumstances made it a winner.

The problem with developers leaving sustainable transport (bus lanes, best practice bike lanes, rail corridors) until some later date is that it becomes politically difficult when you try to take back that space from the car users later on.

I agree that further urban sprawl and exurbs shouldn't be encouraged, if you read my long post you'll see I already agree that development should be regulated for the main reason of food security, not about jobs. However, extending rail to Concordia/Kalbeeba and/or Roseworthy beyond Gawler (and also to Buckland Park and to Aldinga) would not be about new developments but rather about serving what is already there or at least what is already approved.

There needs to be more widespread change though – starting by ending negative gearing immediately and taking other steps to take back the property market from the speculators – otherwise poor people will keep shifting outwards because there is no affordable housing anywhere near the jobs. That only 1.5% of transport to work in Adelaide is by cycling is probably the best indicator there is that planning is non-existent and housing affordability is terrible.
  Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
i DID actually get an A+ on that project, i can post it on here if you like. Smile

and in regards to the CB class railcar being too big for the south line, that is rubbish. what is physically stopping it from going down there?
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

i recently had to conduct a business plan for regional rail in SA as part of a school project

this is what i come up with:

1) one year of prep upgrades of 7 of steves good carriages.
2) six months of once montly trial railfan services from Adelaide to Whyalla. Broken hill and Bordertown.
3) one year of twice weekly whyalla and once weekly rail services to broken hill and bordertown.
4) expanding staff obtaining and restoring the wine train for a thrice weekly barossa service.
5) obtaining the CB class railcar from port augusta and runnning it montly to parachilna, loxton and Pinarroo for the railfans.

thoughts on my A+ school project?
Heath Loxton

Heath , If your teacher gave you a A+ for your business plan with running regional rail in SA without you doing any COST  .

Your teacher should be sacked as he has taught you nothing .

Cost has everything to do with running a business .
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

Viability doesn't matter in the decision making processes involved though. If viability was important the duplication of the Southern Expressway would not have proceeded (thanks to Main South Road having plenty of spare capacity in the contra-peak directions) but the political circumstances made it a winner.
justapassenger

I take it that you ( justapassenger ) live north of Adelaide .

And have not been on Main South Road ( down south ) when the expressway has been closed of late .

The governments grand plan is to have a freeway / Expressway running along the north - south corridor of Adelaide .

The government has done both ends now just need to do the middle bits .
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Your teacher should be sacked as he has taught you nothing .
"BIG-BEAR"

Your teacher should be sacked.
"hosk1956"
Steady on guys, if you saw the way that secondary teachers have to mark stuff these days you would know quite well that the system is broken and the teachers are not to blame.

If they could somehow make their rent and food come out of thin air (maybe a Harry Potter Heath Loxton "Business Plan" is needed for that) the majority of secondary teachers would resign in protest over the complete destruction of academic rigour which was undertaken by Jay Weatherill when he was the Minister for Education.
I take it that you ( justapassenger ) live north of Adelaide .

And have not been on Main South Road ( down south ) when the expressway has been closed of late .

The governments grand plan is to have a freeway / Expressway running along the north - south corridor of Adelaide .

The government has done both ends now just need to do the middle bits .
"BIG-BEAR"
I most certainly do live south of the city, in very much the right area to see how nicely Main South Road flows in off-peak periods (i.e. 21 hours a day for each direction). It's simply not a problem south of Darlington.

The SExy functioned just fine as reversible peak lanes, the duplication money should have been spent on the Anzac-Regency segment, or on world best practice bicycle infrastructure and usage incentives to transport people more efficiently on the plains with an aim to bring "cycle to work" from 1.5% to 10% within ten years.

I'm also aware of the facts – that freeways cause congestion instead of relieving it, and that the SExy duplication is a massive bet on Adelaide being the first place in the entire world to disprove that fact.

I do agree that a streamlined N-S corridor through the inner suburbs would be good to take people out of the firing line of the transport industry. I also believe it should be a toll road financed by the private sector, built in a trench to avoid it becoming a major barrier to sustainable transport, and with the only public money to be spent being on traffic calming measures in the suburbs on either side to eradicate rat runs.
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller



I'm also aware of the facts – that freeways cause congestion instead of relieving it, and that the SExy duplication is a massive bet on Adelaide being the first place in the entire world to disprove that fact.


It may something to do with if you build it . People will use it .

I could say a lot more with the way you think justapassenger .

But this is Railpage . Train talk .

Not where you think government should spend money to suit your idea's about no freeway for people who live down south and more people on bikes .
  Gayspie Deputy Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
I did provide a 12 page long cost and business plan analysis to the teacher.

in theory what type of regional passenger rail service would work?
  BIG-BEAR Chief Train Controller

I did provide a 12 page long cost and business plan analysis to the teacher.

in theory what type of regional passenger rail service would work?
Heath Loxton

How much is a ticket to go for a ride on your train ?
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

I did provide a 12 page long cost and business plan analysis to the teacher.

in theory what type of regional passenger rail service would work?
Heath Loxton

A rail service between a country city of  at least 150,000 population and a major capital city

Examples, Newcastle to Sydney, Bendigo to Melbourne, Ballarat to Melbourne and Geelong to Melbourne.

Bunbury to Perth just works, Bunbury area about 40,000.

The distance must be such that the rail time is not significantly longer than the total air travel time and the rail route is at least faster than private car.

Heath, you have to work out why people would want to travel and then why they would want to use rail. In site of what Adelaide people might think many country people either don't need to go there or don't want to.

Ian
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
A rail service between a country city of at least 150,000 population and a major capital city

Examples, Newcastle to Sydney, Bendigo to Melbourne, Ballarat to Melbourne and Geelong to Melbourne.

Bunbury to Perth just works, Bunbury area about 40,000.

The distance must be such that the rail time is not significantly longer than the total air travel time and the rail route is at least faster than private car.

Heath, you have to work out why people would want to travel and then why they would want to use rail. In site of what Adelaide people might think many country people either don't need to go there or don't want to.

Ian
steam4ian

Heath,
These passenger trains work because they are commuter trains, from large regional centres about an hour and a bit from the capital. Frequent, fast and comfortable travel is what the people want, not a weekly service from a country town that has a small enough population to fit in a 60 y.o. railcar.   Pinnaroo wouldn't even have a mini bus service to Tailem Bend/Murray Bridge, let alone enough need for an entire train to Adelaide.   And as for people from Adelaide going to Pinnaroo, then a mini bus would do for a yearly trip. Sorry residents of Pinnaroo, but you wouldn't be high on my list to visit.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
...and in regards to the CB class railcar being too big for the south line, that is rubbish. what is physically stopping it from going down there?
"Heath Loxton"

The Budd cars are physically larger than the Bluebirds, some 25.9m long, Bluebird is 22.9m long; Budd is 3.06m wide, Bluebird is 2.97m; Budd is 4.45m Height, Bluebird is 4.16m.
Heath, I'm sure you can work out that a longer railcar will have greater "overhang" on tight curves, and what the extra height means in tunnels.
AN never ran a Budd south of their Keswick station.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I think the original scheme involved B80 (from the then defunct West Coast Railway) and 907 & 909. It was very short-lived and ran for a few trips in 2003 before they pulled the pin.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Thread closed, the thread has gone  all over the place.

And some posts removed.

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