adding services by way of extensions will by default provide more services to existing stations. why is this not a good thing?
How does an extension of an existing service provide more trains?
ZH, you seem to like reports, have you read this one?
He might get some traction if a) he offered ideas, etc on how to improve VLine and/or Metro services and b) resisted the urge to bag many ideas that are posted (even though some of them are foam covered). Sticking to the economic dry viewpoint ignores the fact that the State of Victoria is not a business but a community (with all its good and not-so-good points).
He might get some traction if a) he offered ideas, etc on how to improve VLine and/or Metro services and b) resisted the urge to bag many ideas that are posted (even though some of them are foam covered). Sticking to the economic dry viewpoint ignores the fact that the State of Victoria is not a business but a community (with all its good and not-so-good points).
Government doesn't touch PT for two reasons - first is unsupported capital expenditure costs (not present for roads), second is the failure for revenue coverage of even operation expenditure. It means you not only kick the budget against the wall when you build a PT project, you continue to have it leeching off the budget ad infinum. You can't just ignore the economic reality because you don't like it.
If fares are raised to cost recovery levels, expenditure no longer becomes a reason to deny growth of public transport infrastructure.
The problem is that this site (as with many PT advocate sites) has a lot of poorly thought out ideas with limited analysis (the why part) and little consideration of economic concerns. Completely different to other sites which discuss such things where contributors actually put thought into ideas (ie. there is something to debate). For someone like our recent friend who just put dots on a map (stations next to suburban streets for the Melbourne Airport extension), is it really unfair to expect some justification? There's a big difference between rational plans that consider reality and fantasy.
Sorry Parkes Hub I do not understand? What is economic dry viewpoint about the Passenger paying more through the farebox. I come from the UK, one of the biggest and generous welfare state systems in the world and even they realize that more money needs to come through the way of fares or the Rail infrastructure will be subject to the following
the latter must pay its way if it is to see any growth, otherwise it will continue to be neglected by government.
Improvements to V/Line and Metro Services must be paid for Governments are not going to Raid Health or Education budgets to pay for them.
Michael
With respect to favourtism of roads, and lack of interest in rail?
It's common sense.
Would more people use the bendigo train if 2 PSOs rode every train from southern cross and clarksfield to get it through the western suburbs as i think maybe some ppl dont use the train because they dont feel safe going throught he west??
but then again people do have right to voice their opinions/thoughts. After all, this is a discussion board.
Michael,
There's no issue with the fact that fares are too cheap. However, I doubt that 100% fare recovery is achievable either practically or politically. Having said that, 25% is unreasonable. How would you sell the fare increase to 100% to the average passenger? Even over time? My darling wife goes into Melb Central from Macedon each day and she reckons it's waaaay too expensive....despite my disagreement. Maybe if the trains were faster, less crowded (yes, it's standing room only from SCS to Sunbury some days) and punctual, you might be able to sell the fare hikes to Joe Public.
I think our friend ZH posts good stuff generally (an exception may be his views on the VLine usage by Sunbury pax), the issue I have is not content but rather context. I understand that he's probably frustrated by being up to his armpits in foam sometimes but offering up solutions along with the critique can do wonders. Like ZH's post at 03:50 this morning (and what the hell were you doing up at 03:50AM anyway, ZH?)
I am one who can remember the "good old days" when you could not use your v/line ticket in Zones 1, 2 and 3 (apart from the section of your line that travelled into the city). It is better these days. If people want people to use PT, you've got to make it affordable. It is still not affordable if 4 adults want to go somewhere, petrol is cheaper.
PT is dirt cheap now!. Affordable. No it is the Aussie Disease. Champagne service on a Beer Budget! That's why some clowns are petitioning the Government to make it free.
Michael
There's no issue with the fact that fares are too cheap. However, I doubt that 100% fare recovery is achievable either practically or politically. Having said that, 25% is unreasonable. How would you sell the fare increase to 100% to the average passenger? Even over time? My darling wife goes into Melb Central from Macedon each day and she reckons it's waaaay too expensive....despite my disagreement. Maybe if the trains were faster, less crowded (yes, it's standing room only from SCS to Sunbury some days) and punctual, you might be able to sell the fare hikes to Joe Public.
I think our friend ZH posts good stuff generally (an exception may be his views on the VLine usage by Sunbury pax), the issue I have is not content but rather context. I understand that he's probably frustrated by being up to his armpits in foam sometimes but offering up solutions along with the critique can do wonders. Like ZH's post at 03:50 this morning (and what the hell were you doing up at 03:50AM anyway, ZH?)
So I suppose you're just making an assumption?
To enter into a discussion you have to begin with the premise that other people have valid points of view.
I agree it is cheap, but for one person, maybe two. 4 Adults travelling together, Geelong to Melbourne $16 x 4 on PT off peak, or there abouts. 1/2 tank of petrol in a 4 cylinder car $30.
Why should PT be cheaper? A car with 4 people in it beats PT for efficiency - the road journey should be cheaper.
Most trips are done alone, so in any case PT fares should be based on this - there is little benefit trying to remove 4-5 occupancy vehicles from the road in any case.
Present a reasoned, logical case and I may grant you that privilege.
RRL needs to go to Sunbury for true separation between Metro trains and V/line trains.This week being a bit quiet at work I decided to close and head up to Maldon for a bit of work on the VGR. This gave me a chance to take the 16.57 Bendigo Train out of SC or "The Castlemaine Flyer" as it should be known as it runs express Footscray to the Maine and provides the quickest run on the timetable. It was not full as would be expected at this time of year and I got a seat in the front car with a bunch of regular travellers who all knew each other and were having a great time catching up on all things Summer Holidays. They obviously caught this service regularly from work in the city to home in the Goldfields.
Bendigo line people start lobbing now for a faster track though the outer Suburbs (the land needed for an extra two tracks Is mostly available now)
Government spin states that the two types of trains will be fully separated, but that's not the case.
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