Regional Rail Link Bendigo Wise

 
  712M Chief Commissioner

Will Sunbury move up to a 20 minute frequency in the off-peak in April?

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  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Honestly Kuldalai they LOST the election, your side WON, so you can stop trolling and slagging them off now! Rolling Eyes
Bogong

There's no doubt the former Baillieu/Napthine administration put their stamp on the RRL project **FOR THE WORSE**.

It's as though many aspects of the project were dumbed down so they could bleat about it being brought in under time and under budget. Yes of course the project was finished ahead of time when several vital pieces are missing from the finished project, particularly the flyover west of Sunshine, so there would be no conflict between up Bendigo's and down sparks.

Many of the missing pieces will need to be addressed before too long anyway.

Mike.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

There's no doubt the former Baillieu/Napthine administration put their stamp on the RRL project **FOR THE WORSE**.

It's as though many aspects of the project were dumbed down so they could bleat about it being brought in under time and under budget. Yes of course the project was finished ahead of time when several vital pieces are missing from the finished project, particularly the flyover west of Sunshine, so there would be no conflict between up Bendigo's and down sparks.

Many of the missing pieces will need to be addressed before too long anyway.

Mike.
The Vinelander
True.  And then again you could blame Bracksy for singling most of the Bendigo line North of Kyneton...

And any attempt to put in an airport link via Albion will require major work between Sunshine and Ginifer to untangle it all.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
The trouble with the Bendigo v. Metro on the  Sunbury route is that even with optimal timetabling on a 20 minute frequency a VLP is always going to catch up with the preceding spark .  What is really needed is a third track from Sunshine out as far as Ginifer so VLP can run through Metro .  If the track layouts at  Sunshine and Watergardens are used properly in the new tt then many VLP run throughs are possible in both directions with good timetabling at Sunshine and Watergardens .
kuldalai
Bear with me here as Maths was never my strong point. Looking at the Sunbury Metro timetable it seems that a Down Sunbury stopping all stations service takes around 30 minutes from Tottenham to Sunbury. A Vline service is timetabled anywhere from 20 odd to 30 odd minutes to run the section Footscray to Sunbury.

By my calculations that means that on a 20 minute frequency if the V line gets priority at Sunshine then it should not run into the proceeding service - if the Vline got to Sunshine 5 minutes ahead of the next Metro the proceeding Metro would already be 15 minutes up the line and half way to Sunbury. As mentioned many of the services on this line terminate at WG anyway.

However looking at the timetable there are times when services are far more frequent. When the 4.57 down Bendigo flagship is running for instance there is a Metro service running every 7 or 8 minutes so it is basically a no brainer that the Vline will be stuck behind one or another of them.

BTW Saturdays 1.36pm Up Bendigo fairly flew until we hit the area around Keilor Plains where we slowed to a crawl. Still arrived only a couple of minutes late in the Maine but it is oh-so-frustrating sitting in that carriage while you stop-start along when you should be doing over 100km/h!

BG
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

On yesterday morning's UP flagship service from Eaglehawk/Bendigo, the 4 car set couldn't seat everyone after Gisborne - several people had to sit or stand elsewhere.  The train from Wendouree that pulls in to SCS a few minutes later likewise looked packed.

Now that holidays are over, this will be par-for-the-course until more services or V/lo sets are commissioned.  Even lower petrol prices can't keep a lid on V/Line passenger numbers.  Probably because road traffic at peak times is so bad atm.
  ParkesHub Chief Commissioner

....Probably because road traffic at peak times is so bad atm.
Carnot....
Like the Melton Hwy/ Calder Fwy merge each and every morning!
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
On yesterday morning's UP flagship service from Eaglehawk/Bendigo, the 4 car set couldn't seat everyone after Gisborne - several people had to sit or stand elsewhere.  The train from Wendouree that pulls in to SCS a few minutes later likewise looked packed.

Now that holidays are over, this will be par-for-the-course until more services or V/lo sets are commissioned.  Even lower petrol prices can't keep a lid on V/Line passenger numbers.  Probably because road traffic at peak times is so bad atm.
Carnot
I expect that with the current order of Vlocities this will be increased to six cars either before year's end or early next year.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Like the Melton Hwy/ Calder Fwy merge each and every morning!
ParkesHub
They can hardly call It a Freeway between Keilor Park Drive and Diggers Rest Interchange, It's very sub standard !
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

It is  understood that the pressure is on to receive 20 odd  VL cars before RRL opens in late  April .  Peak wise apart from Wyndamvale shorts the previous commitment was for only 1 extra am and PM Peak trip on each of the Geelong, Ballarat and Bendigo lines at RRL opening (plus Geelong 20 minute Weekday between the peaks) .

With only 20 extra cars and new stations at Tarneit and Wyndamvale , plus extra Peak services committed to Ballarat and Bendigo there are going to be serious overcrowding issues still when RRL opens . (Only 8 extra VL cars available to Geelong line.)

Back in 2011  VLP recommended acquisition of something like 67 extra VL cars to meet patronage at RRL opening .  The combination of Mulder & Napthine not then actually ordering any cars till late 2012 and then as 40  (since increased to 43) locked in insufficient cars and with RRL completed 12 months early, but rollingstock ordered a year late means that only 20 extra VL cars will be delivered by RRL opening instead of VLP recommended  67 .

With current Governments commitment of a further 20 VL cars on top of the 43 ordered, will be close to VLP original rqeuest, but probably 3 years after RRL opening (2017/18) till all 63 cars are delivered .

Another issue that will exacerbate Geelong Line overcrowding is that with VLP currently locked into 3 car VL sets the 7 car sets currently used will dissapear with a maximum train size of 6 cars .  Just idiotic when what VLP needs is  more VL cars in trailers to create 20 - 24  x 4 car VL sets. Then VL consists of 3, 4, 6, 7 or 8 cars can be run, whereas VL has locked itself into operation of consists of only 3 or 6 cars .
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Another issue that will exacerbate Geelong Line overcrowding is that with VLP currently locked into 3 car VL sets the 7 car sets currently used will dissapear with a maximum train size of 6 cars.
kuldalai
If I remember correctly that is not correct. The Vlocities are being altered so that more than 8 cars can be used together, and Footscray (and I think Sunshines as well) has had platforms 3 and 4 lengthed to take 9 car trains.
  gomer Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
That is correct, all new Vlocity's and refurbished units have the ability to run as a 9 car set.
More than likely on the Geelong flagships only.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Another bizarre Bendigo Trip (possibly involving time travel)

Saturday's 13.36 Down Bendigo service left bang on time however before we got to the flyover the announcement came that due to speed restrictions between Sunbury and Kyneton the train would be 20 minutes late into Bendigo. If the restrictions are between Sunbury and Kyneton only that means 20 mins late into Castlemaine me thinks. I ring ahead to advise my ride and settle back to read the paper (which I am now very glad I bought)

So what do you do when you have a regional train facing a 20 minute delay? You chuck it on a path behind a stops-all-stations Sunbury Spark of course! We crawled all the way from Albion to Sunbury arriving more than 10 minutes late. So now me thinks 20 minutes plus 10 minutes = 30 minutes. Phone ahead to her indoors again to say the delay will now be 30 minutes.

The trip to Kyneton was leisurely to say the least but once past the blockage we sped on to my destination. I stuck my head in the paper and forgot about my troubles while I read about those of the world and the nation. Next thing I hear is the announcement that the next stop will be Castlemaine. I looked at my watch, 3.10pm or so. We arrived at Castlemaine at 3.15 approx against the original timetabled arrival of 3.04pm.

I alighted from the train and headed for the front bar of the Railway Hotel for a pot or 3 while I waited for my ride, all the while shaking my head in bewilderment and wondering how the heck we found that 20 minutes!

BG
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

BG you answered your own question, you found it by having a relaxing 3 pots in your 20 mins at the local............
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

If I remember correctly that is not correct. The Vlocities are being altered so that more than 8 cars can be used together, and Footscray (and I think Sunshines as well) has had platforms 3 and 4 lengthed to take 9 car trains.
railblogger
Yes a 9 car VL set could be operated but a very expensive way to run a railway .  The RRL platforms at  Footscray, Sunshine, Tarneit and  Wyndamvale have been built to hold 8 car Sets  NOT 9 .  No other Geelong line platforms are long enough for a 9 car set.
Extension to 9 cars at Little River would be difficult with a lx at one end and river at the other. Lara and Corio could be extended at Up end with signalling, lx implications. North Shore at Up end.  North Geelong at Down end.  Geelong only at Up end involves signalling issues.  South Geelong and Marshall would require extensive signalling and lx issues. Waurn Ponds in an Up direction .

The intention medium term is to acquire a new fleet of high capacity DMU trains in 4 car consists with 3 power cars and a trailer car for use on the Geelong line.  In the Off Peak as 4 car sets and at Peak times as 8 car sets. That is why the new RRL pltaforms have been built to a 220m length to hold an 8 car DMU  consist in future. (If it were planned that 9 car sets would be operated then the RRL platforms would have been built for 9 cars.)  

So one will progressively see Geelong line platforms extended to hold 8 DMU cars but not 9 .
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I suggest you go take a look at the markings on the Footscray RRL platforms.
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Bear with me here as Maths was never my strong point. Looking at the Sunbury Metro timetable it seems that a Down Sunbury stopping all stations service takes around 30 minutes from Tottenham to Sunbury. A Vline service is timetabled anywhere from 20 odd to 30 odd minutes to run the section Footscray to Sunbury.

By my calculations that means that on a 20 minute frequency if the V line gets priority at Sunshine then it should not run into the proceeding service - if the Vline got to Sunshine 5 minutes ahead of the next Metro the proceeding Metro would already be 15 minutes up the line and half way to Sunbury. As mentioned many of the services on this line terminate at WG anyway.

However looking at the timetable there are times when services are far more frequent. When the 4.57 down Bendigo flagship is running for instance there is a Metro service running every 7 or 8 minutes so it is basically a no brainer that the Vline will be stuck behind one or another of them.

BTW Saturdays 1.36pm Up Bendigo fairly flew until we hit the area around Keilor Plains where we slowed to a crawl. Still arrived only a couple of minutes late in the Maine but it is oh-so-frustrating sitting in that carriage while you stop-start along when you should be doing over 100km/h!

BG
BrentonGolding
Story of my life here, the 4:57 so called flagship service is a joke.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Yes a 9 car VL set could be operated but a very expensive way to run a railway .  The RRL platforms at  Footscray, Sunshine, Tarneit and  Wyndamvale have been built to hold 8 car Sets  NOT 9 .  No other Geelong line platforms are long enough for a 9 car set.
Extension to 9 cars at Little River would be difficult with a lx at one end and river at the other. Lara and Corio could be extended at Up end with signalling, lx implications. North Shore at Up end.  North Geelong at Down end.  Geelong only at Up end involves signalling issues.  South Geelong and Marshall would require extensive signalling and lx issues. Waurn Ponds in an Up direction .

The intention medium term is to acquire a new fleet of high capacity DMU trains in 4 car consists with 3 power cars and a trailer car for use on the Geelong line.  In the Off Peak as 4 car sets and at Peak times as 8 car sets. That is why the new RRL pltaforms have been built to a 220m length to hold an 8 car DMU  consist in future. (If it were planned that 9 car sets would be operated then the RRL platforms would have been built for 9 cars.)  

So one will progressively see Geelong line platforms extended to hold 8 DMU cars but not 9 .
kuldalai
The only trains that are likely to run as 9 cars are the Geelong flaghips. These will run express between Sunshine and North Geelong, so extending the platforms at Little River and the like is totally irrellevant.

There are plenty of examples on the V/Line network where the platforms are shorter than the trains using them. Just take a look at some of the platforms on the Seymour line.

Geelong Flagships WILL run as 9 car sets in the not too distant future.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Story of my life here, the 4:57 so called flagship service is a joke.
ScottAus
Yep. I've caught both the 4.57 and 5.31 Down Bendigo a couple of times over the last fortnight, every one stuck behind a spark at one point or another, both the 5.31s all the way from the RRL to Watergardens (where is stops for pickup). Invariably 15 minutes late into Castlemaine. The 15 mins doesn't really bother me it is the crawling along at 50k/h or slower that drives me insane.

At the risk of people screaming at me to wait for the new timetable maybe the PTV should just admit that they can't actually run these services to timetable and ad 10 mins from Albion to Sunbury!?!?
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Yep. I've caught both the 4.57 and 5.31 Down Bendigo a couple of times over the last fortnight, every one stuck behind a spark at one point or another, both the 5.31s all the way from the RRL to Watergardens (where is stops for pickup). Invariably 15 minutes late into Castlemaine. The 15 mins doesn't really bother me it is the crawling along at 50k/h or slower that drives me insane.

At the risk of people screaming at me to wait for the new timetable maybe the PTV should just admit that they can't actually run these services to timetable and ad 10 mins from Albion to Sunbury!?!?
BrentonGolding
I simply take later trains which don't seem to have to deal with as much congestion.  Never had a late arrival into Bendigo of a 1757, 1823, or 1922 Down train since RRL opened to Sunshine in July.  Late departing - often, but they still make it on-time due to the ridiculous padding in the timetable.  If the Swan Hill 1823 Down leaves on time and gets a good path to Sunbury, you often end up sitting at Gisborne for about 5-10 minutes because it got there too early!
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I simply take later trains which don't seem to have to deal with as much congestion.  Never had a late arrival into Bendigo of a 1757, 1823, or 1922 Down train since RRL opened to Sunshine in July.  Late departing - often, but they still make it on-time due to the ridiculous padding in the timetable.  If the Swan Hill 1823 Down leaves on time and gets a good path to Sunbury, you often end up sitting at Gisborne for about 5-10 minutes because it got there too early!
Carnot
If only I had that luxury! Last bus to Maldon from C'maine is 4.55pm weekdays and 2.50 on Saturdays (handy!) so I rely on the kindness of strangers (read the Missus) for a ride. She doesn't like driving at night due to the roos on the road. It's either that or wait for J549 but due to speed restrictions from Muckleford to Maldon that rarely runs on time either so that would just add fuel to the fire so to speak!

BG

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