Regional Rail Link Bendigo Wise

 
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Having noticed the other RRL thread has been a bit hijacked by too many East Link discussions I thought it would be good to get it back on track as it were. As a Castlemaine commuter I am yet to be convinced that this has been a good thing. I compared the old and new timetables and sadly there is absolutely no difference.

There was this piece in the Bendigo Addy and one quote got my attention, "Four-and-a-half years ago the morning express got me from Castlemaine to North Melbourne in one hour.  Now it takes an hour-and-a-half," he said.

http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/2450321/rail-link-benefits-off-track-commuters-say/?cs=85

So far the benefits to me seem negligible and we suffered buses for nothing.

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  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Having noticed the other RRL thread has been a bit hijacked by too many East Link discussions I thought it would be good to get it back on track as it were. As a Castlemaine commuter I am yet to be convinced that this has been a good thing. I compared the old and new timetables and sadly there is absolutely no difference.

There was this piece in the Bendigo Addy and one quote got my attention, "Four-and-a-half years ago the morning express got me from Castlemaine to North Melbourne in one hour. Now it takes an hour-and-a-half," he said.

http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/2450321/rail-link-benefits-off-track-commuters-say/?cs=85

So far the benefits to me seem negligible and we suffered buses for nothing.
ScottAus

RRL needs to go to Sunbury for true separation between Metro trains and V/line trains.

Bendigo line people start lobbing now for a faster track though the outer Suburbs (the land needed for an extra two tracks Is mostly available now)

Government spin states that the two types of trains will be fully separated, but that's not the case.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
A negative impact on services to bendigo an between was the decision to single the line north of kyneton. This has caused timetable limitations to castlemaine.

Sadly castlemaine is a late town which is now caught in the single line working issue until kyneton. Until this is rectified I cannot see how services can be improved unless someone else can provide a view.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

A negative impact on services to bendigo an between was the decision to single the line north of kyneton. This has caused timetable limitations to castlemaine.

Sadly castlemaine is a late town which is now caught in the single line working issue until kyneton. Until this is rectified I cannot see how services can be improved unless someone else can provide a view.
"freightgate"

Does this explain why the train is taking 30 minutes longer now than it was four years ago.
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Labor's fast rail plan was way more than 4 years ago, I do think the metrotification of Sunbury with just two tracks was silly though. Most Sunbury city people still get the vlines.
  waynes Junior Train Controller

Location: Victoria
Labor's fast rail plan was way more than 4 years ago, I do think the metrotification of Sunbury with just two tracks was silly though. Most Sunbury city people still get the vlines.
ScottAus


Do vline still allow the picking up of passengers from Sunbury on city bound services?
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Do vline still allow the picking up of passengers from Sunbury on city bound services?
waynes

yup, on some services. I guess the alternative to Watergardens for those who want all the crummy stations we still get caught behind before Sunshine.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Does this explain why the train is taking 30 minutes longer now than it was four years ago.
duttonbay

Trains stopping at extra stations kills a formerly fast schedule
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Trains stopping at extra stations kills a formerly fast schedule
Nightfire

One stop for that service ie the morning express, that being Gisborne.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Trains stopping at extra stations kills a formerly fast schedule
"Nightfire"

Yes, but up here a few posts, freightgate seemed to state that the reason why trains were so slow between Castlemaine and Melbourne was the single track. This existed four-and-a-half years ago. The article quoted said "Four-and-a-half years ago the morning express got me from Castlemaine to North Melbourne in one hour. Now it takes an hour-and-a-half".  The single line hasn't changed in that time, and even though it was an awful decision, why bring it up when comparing running times over the last four-and-a-half years?  I was asking him whether that was the reason.

There are more stops. There are sparks between Sunbury and Sunshine. These are the reasons.
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
There has always being a single track anyway, think Chewton tunnel, and there are twin tracks around Taradale, but yes it would be amazing if the the so called flagship Castlemaine-Bendigo Express could go flat knackers from SC, not to be for a long time it seems.We used to get to Sunbury around 5:25,now it is 5:35
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
There has always being a single track anyway, think Chewton tunnel, and there are twin tracks around Taradale, but yes it would be amazing if the the so called flagship Castlemaine-Bendigo Express could go flat knackers from SC, not to be for a long time it seems.We used to get to Sunbury around 5:25,now it is 5:35
ScottAus

Oh and that was only a year ago,pre Sunbury sparkification.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

There has always being a single track anyway, think Chewton tunnel
"ScottAus"

Always?  Define your version of always.
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Always? Define your version of always.
duttonbay

Bugger I was wrong, in name and tracks Sad I assumed it was always one
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Chewton tunnel? Since it was built one assumes Smile Only room for one train in there,late 1800's I guess
"ScottAus"

No. The Bendigo line was built as double track, opened in 1862.  Double track worked fine for more than 140 years, until it was singled, basically due to the two tunnels.

Even if you accept the need to run single line through the tunnels (and there were raging discussions about that for some years) quite why the single track sections are so long mystifies me.  Operations would have been much less affected by late running trains if there were two single track sections each about 1km long.
  ScottAus Station Master

Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Off track Smile Assuming that nothing will be done about single track woes,back to RRL
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

No. The Bendigo line was built as double track, opened in 1862. Double track worked fine for more than 140 years, until it was singled, basically due to the two tunnels.

Even if you accept the need to run single line through the tunnels (and there were raging discussions about that for some years) quite why the single track sections are so long mystifies me. Operations would have been much less affected by late running trains if there were two single track sections each about 1km long.
duttonbay

In a nutshell - cost cutting due to project cost overruns, the ability to cut corners within the existing easement (esp. winding Castlemaine - Harcourt section) to increase line speed, and allegedly tight clearances under several overpasses (Castlemaine-Kyneton).

As I mentioned in the RRL thread, Bendigo to SCS times are about 10min longer today due to Sunbury Electrification.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Labor's fast rail plan was way more than 4 years ago, I do think the metrotification of Sunbury with just two tracks was silly though. Most Sunbury city people still get the vlines.
ScottAus

From my own experience on both the V/Line and Sunbury trains, this is incorrect, especially in peak hour. I find that there are a lot of people using the Metro service compared to V/Line.
There are sparks between Sunbury and Sunshine.
duttonbay

This is not the reason for the times blowing out - that was due to capacity constraints between Sunshine and the city. The RRLA stated on the website that this slack can now be removed, so hopefully it is at the next timetable change.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

There are a number of issues here  which impact on Bendigo services:  1.  Conflicts with Metro between Southern Cross and Sunbury 2. Single track constraints beyond  Kyneton  3.  Implementation of the full new RRL  timetable in early 2015 .

1.  Whilst Northern services are now completely separated from Metro between Southern Cross and  Sunshine, they still share the same track pair between  Andersons Rd (Sunshine) and  Sunbury.  Whilst VLP trains can run through Metro trains at Watergardens in both directions this does not happen because of poor timetabling and a gutless  DOT who will not direct Metro that is to happen .

For VLP trains not to trip over Metro trains between Sunshine and Sunbury either VLP run throughs have to be timetabled at Watergardens, and / or  the  Bendigo RRL  track pair has to be extended beyond Anderson Rd to a point around Ginifer .
The second extension has to happen in any case when the  Metro service is extended to the Airport.

2.  The single track beyond Kyneton can support the existing frequency of service, but extra track infrastructure is required to operate an off peak half hourly service to Bendigo . Ideally that would be by extending the existing  short Castlemaine loop to a full 7km long loop like those at  Taradale and  Ravenswood .

3. The current Bendigo & Ballarat RRL timetables are only the old timetable slightly massaged and do not reflect real RRL times that will finally be achieved between Southern Cross and  Sunshine.  The final RRL TT for Geelong, Ballarat and Bendigo  reflecting the faster running times and extra services will be introduced  mid 2015  when the Geelong RRL leg is ready and when VLP has received (hopefully) some of the 43 extra VL cars on order .
  mm42 Chief Train Controller

Concerned commuters should be lobbying the local mayors, because mayors have more freedom to put a case than local members.  A similar approach has worked in Wyndham in lobbying for better public transport.  Local councils are often keen to take up such issues that don't cost much out of their own budgets, and they can become really effective lobby groups. Castlemaine had a property boom shortly after the Fast Rail Project, as new residents were able to commute to jobs in Melbourne.  If this benefit is lost through longer travel time, it will affect the economic activity in Castlemaine. A picture that could be painted is that Castlemaine could become like Maryborough if increases in train times take it out of the Melbourne commuting zone.

Proposals for the Main Road grade separation at St Albans show room for only 2 tracks, with no capacity for a third express track for Vline services. So there seems to be no thought to serve regional users.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Three tracks aren't required at St Albans.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
How else could up and down vline trains pass metro stopping all stations traffic ?

From the posts here the problem seems to be the congestion between water gardens and sunshine ?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

How else could up and down vline trains pass metro stopping all stations traffic ?

From the posts here the problem seems to be the congestion between water gardens and sunshine ?
freightgate

If the RRL track pair is extended on the Bendigo leg from Andersons Rd to the vicinity of Ginifer, or better still to the Up end of St Albans VLP trains can cope fine on two tracks shared with Metro beyond there . There is also the ability to do VLP run throughs at Watergardens but DOT will not force the issue with Metro.

RRL track pair will have to be extended to around Ginifer in any case as Airport link won't work otherwise.
  MelbourneCity Chief Commissioner

Are there enough paths to run a two-teir service on th Bendigo line?

Ie, hourly off peak service ex BGO, stopping at Kangaroo Flat, Castlemaine, Kyneton then express to Sunshine.
Departing within 5 minutes of the express from Kyneton, a stopping all sweeper (express Sunbury- Sunshine).

Would that be possible?

This may help relieve overcrowding and speed up services.

Obviously does little to remove conflicts with Metro.
  712M Chief Commissioner

Castlemaine and Bendigo commuters need to realize that the world doesn't revolve around the single peak hour express services in each direction. The commuters on these services still have  vastly superior travel times compared to other towns of similar distance. For example Traralgon's AM flagship takes just over two hours to get to the city and doesn't even stop at Southern Cross!

Almost all trains have had extended travel times since the RFR timetable was introduced in 2006. For some reason only those using the fastest express services are the ones whinging. Whinging that it takes the same amount of time to travel 120 km to Castlemaine or Ballarat as it takes to reach Lilydale or Frankston on Metro.

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