I don't like sucking up to any country. 'Australians' have been doing that since 1788 However Clive’s rant was self serving and somewhat hypocritical given he had no qualms with wanting them as business partners.

Militarily, Australia is better equipped (with modern weapons!) than any period since WW2, however it is intended to be used in local East Timor/Solomon type ops or as part of a US led war. Short of having nukes with the best delivery systems, we would be hard pressed to stave off a serious invasion.

As for domestic politics, Clive's passion and fair-go stance has been refreshing even if somewhat intemperate.

The Herald-Sun was wall-to-wall anti-Clive Palmer today - a damning opinion piece from Andrew Bolt as well as what appeared to be a rather lot of anti-Clive letters.

Also in the papers was an interesting article on page three of the Age discussing the haemorrhage of red ink at the Australian, Rupert's jewel in the Aussie media crown. I wonder if they will ask Judith Sloan to take a pay cut because of poor circulation!

I agree with you, Groundrelay, I think Clive is at least entertaining. Andrew Bolt stopped short of calling for a double-dissolution today - I don't think that will be necessary in the end. I think big Clive will roll over of most of the budget eventually - they just need to find out what it is he really wants.

I think big Clive will roll over of most of the budget eventually - they just need to find out what it is he really wants.

Publicity.

...Andrew Bolt stopped short of calling for a double-dissolution today.

That's big of him

That's big of him

Not at all; he just can't spell dissolution.

Did anyone see Andrew Bolt in the Herald-Sun today? His continued attacks on the jobless as the cause of all our problems are getting a bit repetitive and annoying. It's completely in line with the Rupert message though if the Sydney Telegraph is anything to go by but I'm not sure this distraction politics is going to work forever. Several people I know in business have commented on how people are too frightened to spend money at the moment - I think the real story is how terrified people are of losing their jobs.

Also, did anyone else feel that the announcement of 'new' terror laws yesterday was a bit contrived - funny how they announced them within hours of that bloke being stopped at Melbourne airport. Awfully convenient.

...Also, did anyone else feel that the announcement of 'new' terror laws yesterday was a bit contrived - funny how they announced them within hours of that bloke being stopped at Melbourne airport. Awfully convenient.

For Abbott & Co, 'operational' secrecy only applies to politically damaging matters. IS gets the budget off the front page.

Regardless of where people travel to or what their reason, one would have though this country already screened arrivals and could detain persons of interest for questioning. Even if it became illegal to leave here for the ME what’s to stop someone doing so via another country.
Over the last few nights deployment of Super Hornets has been in the news as the government plays it up at every opportunity. In the meantime just ignore the fact that the US hasn’t asked us and we need land bases to operate from. If we really expect to stop this it's going to take troops on the ground!

This lot thrives on emergencies. Better still if they get to roll out the military. Media peddlers of hate love it, it scares the old dears more than a GP tax, feeds the small-minded, tightRsed types and Abbott gets to act Churchillian

Unsure of where to post this and didn't want to start a new thread to specifically discuss it:

It appears that there's an immanent announcement that ASC in Adelaide will close and the next submarine to be built in Japan. No confirmation yet but the decision has already been made according to Sky News this morning. This would come on top of the recent closure of Penrice Soda and spells the loss of many hundreds of jobs both at Osborne and with the support industries/suppliers in Adelaide.

It would also be another broken promise from Abbott, who only two months out from the election last year categorically stated that under his government the next sub would be built at Osborne.

I must admit, I didn't like the look of Bill Shorten addressing the union faithful outside the Osborne ASC this afternoon; all those CFMEU and AWU banners made me think maybe the unions are part of the issue there... just a thought.

I must admit, I didn't like the look of Bill Shorten addressing the union faithful outside the Osborne ASC this afternoon; all those CFMEU and AWU banners made me think maybe the unions are part of the issue there... just a thought.

Historically it was the party that represents labour (i.e. the lifters ), the political arm of the union movement not just the CFMEU and AWU.
'Rouge' unions simply proves they aren't immune from the fact that absolute power corrupts... even liberal party officials seem infected

I must admit, I didn't like the look of Bill Shorten addressing the union faithful outside the Osborne ASC this afternoon; all those CFMEU and AWU banners made me think maybe the unions are part of the issue there... just a thought.

Interesting to see how this will play out.  Tony's track record on manufacturing does not look good even if you concede the car manufacturers had already made a decision to leave.

To hand jobs to the Japanese might be a little difficult for Australian's to swallow.  Especially in South Australia where the job loss have been harder.

Does not look good for Tony.

Alternatively, what price do you put on the retention of manufacturing jobs in this country?  The skills which go hand in hand?  Is it worth the difference between retaining heavy manufacturing and offshoring?

Interesting to see how this will play out. Tony's track record on manufacturing does not look good even if you concede the car manufacturers had already made a decision to leave.

Regardless of how you feel about ASC and the presence of unions there it's yet another body blow for manufacturing in this country - and they're a big employer. The Advertiser was putting the total losses across the ASC and suppliers in the thousands yesterday, and then more bad news for Adelaide today with the announcement that Owens/Illinois (ACI) are putting off 60 people at West Croydon; it's absolutely shocking that there are so many jobs being lost across the country seemingly every day.

Especially in Adelaide with the loss (and pending loss) of so many large employers in the last few years - it's already very high unemployment around Port Adelaide. You can't blame Tony entirely for this though, it's been successive governments policy since Hawke/Keating to progressively drive manufacturing from our shores through abolition of tariffs and industry assistance.

Defence contracts like ASC are the very last bastion of government assistance to keep the national economy going - look at the United States where communities actively lobby for defence contractors to be established and maintained in their area. The fact that this contract is about to go off-shore shows just how bad things are.

And you can't help but feel that Tony Abbott has an arrogant indifference to the suffering of workers who lose their jobs. The flow-on effects through the rest of the economy are bound to affect all of us eventually...

Alternatively, what price do you put on the retention of manufacturing jobs in this country? The skills which go hand in hand? Is it worth the difference between retaining heavy manufacturing and offshoring?

When the dollar goes to below US$0.60 (which I believe it will in the next 2 years) then our decision to send this contract to Japan will look completely stupid.

There's no 'Plan B', that's the thing that I consistently find disturbing about our government.

When the dollar goes to below US$0.60 (which I believe it will in the next 2 years) then our decision to send this contract to Japan will look completely stupid.

There's no 'Plan B', that's the thing that I consistently find disturbing about our government.

But at least the submarines might be able to spend some time underwater.   Plan B is the submariners doing their job.

But at least the submarines might be able to spend some time underwater. Plan B is the submariners doing their job.

And why the decision to buy twelve?  My understanding is that the navy are so hopeless that they had trouble staffing more than three operational Collins Class at any one time anyway.

The navy has difficulty maintain crew levels because the boats are so infrequently in service that in the excessive down time the crew go and find something else to do. I am not too concerned if the next sub build go off shore, it's not as though Australians built the oberon class, but they worked. The Collins Class are hardly glowing examples of usefulness and reliability, if I submitted a design that 20 years to achieve full operation I would have been held accountable years ago.

It just really worries me that we're destroying jobs at what appears to be an accelerating rate - both skilled and unskilled.
At some stage there's going to be a huge cost to be paid for the continued off-shoring of jobs; crime and poverty usually follow unemployment.

The navy has difficulty maintain crew levels because the boats are so infrequently in service that in the excessive down time the crew go and find something else to do. I am not too concerned if the next sub build go off shore, it's not as though Australians built the oberon class, but they worked.

Pretty much. The Collins is an entirely political creation - we can 'thank' Hawke and Keating for that one. ASC isn't meant to survive without Government contracts, and it really needs big contracts to do that. The employees are what I care about, not the organisation. At present the Federal government hasn't articulated a real plan for sustainable jobs for anywhere in this country - shamelessly political infrastructure projects (*cough* urban freeways *cough*) don't count. They've got the Clayton's Jobs Plan.

The Collins Class are hardly glowing examples of usefulness and reliability, if I submitted a design that 20 years to achieve full operation I would have been held accountable years ago.

To be fair, a lot of the problems were not our fault. The Swedes forgot to use full-penetration welds as we specified on the hull sections and Rockwell went belly-up when the Cold War ended and refused to honour the Combat System contract. It's had about as many new build problems as most Western warship designs, it's just that the press loves to beat up on it because we generally don't run such big projects essentially by ourselves.

At present the Federal government hasn't articulated a real plan for sustainable jobs for anywhere in this country - shamelessly political infrastructure projects (*cough* urban freeways *cough*) don't count. They've got the Clayton's Jobs Plan.

That's my primary concern too. Roads of the 21st Century, seriously? I haven't heard them mention their 'million jobs' promise recently - probably because they've proven more adept at destroying jobs than creating them.

The majority of jobs that have been destroyed in the last 12 months are in some of the most disadvantaged urban areas in the nation - I shudder to think what those places will look like in another five or ten years. There just seems to be no interest whatsoever at a government level about what's going on and even less interest in trying to stop it as if market economics will take care of everything.

I guess the plan is that the newly-unemployed use their superannuation to flip investment properties? Apparently it's the only sure thing in our economy... being a 'property millionaire'.

Speaking of the Abbott government and the unemployed; Brett Whiteley (a Tasmanian Liberal MP, not the artist) was in his local paper the other day saying that Work for the Dole participants should be available for small businesses to 'employ' on the proviso that 'no actual jobs are lost'. He said a lot of other MP's in the party room also supported this idea.

On the surface of it the scheme might have merit but my feeling is that if someone is working for a six month term at a small business there's bound to be relentless exploitation of those people to perform tasks that might otherwise be filled by a paid person - I was witness to this myself when coordinating one of these programs several years ago. Employers get dependent on the endless stream of 'free' staff from traineeship providers and have no intention of ever employing any of them despite what they might tell their trainee at the start of the placement. I also have no doubt that it would put a lot of paid people out of work, especially in retail and service industries.

That's my primary concern too. Roads of the 21st Century, seriously? I haven't heard them mention their 'million jobs' promise recently - probably because they've proven more adept at destroying jobs than creating them. ...
...

Now Abbott is doing his best to ensure the old dears are scared sh#tless by a new crisis/emergency.  
Certainly milking Daʿesh for all its media worth, a timely diversion from more mundane domestic politics. Anyway Madam Bishop finally gets to unleash her Super Hornets. So much for keeping stum about operational matters

I must admit, I didn't like the look of Bill Shorten addressing the union faithful outside the Osborne ASC this afternoon; all those CFMEU and AWU banners made me think maybe the unions are part of the issue there... just a thought.

Bill Shorten is smart enough to know that there's a major problem of which the unions are a part.

He's also smart enough to know the consequence of not blowing his dog whistle hard and often - that his only chance of ever moving into Kirribilli will be a formal power-sharing deal with the Greens, and nothing could possibly be worse for his party's base than having the Greens with even the smallest scrap of power.

Bill Shorten is smart enough to know that there's a major problem of which the unions are a part.

He's also smart enough to know the consequence of not blowing his dog whistle hard and often - that his only chance of ever moving into Kirribilli will be a formal power-sharing deal with the Greens, and nothing could possibly be worse for his party's base than having the Greens with even the smallest scrap of power.

It's the militancy of a minority of unions that concerns me - maybe they do drive away investment. However I also understand what people like Groundrelay are saying is mostly true; that the unions are only replicating their own power structures the same as politicans and the mega-wealthy do.

I'm less sure about Labor's long-term aversion to the Greens - I think that will change with time when they realise that they're necessary for power. And the Greens will get more pragmatic with more power; they won't always be eco-Nazi totalitarians. They'll learn to compromise further for the sake of being relevant.

The only thing I find myself strongly agreeing with them on is the need for big $$$ to be spent on transit in our cities to improve amenity and reduce traffic - Melbourne's 100,000+ growth a year is truly wreaking the place. There's an urgent need for faster trains from the exurbs like Ringwood/Dandenong/Frankston so that we can provide realistic alternatives to the freeway/tollway system.

Now Abbott is doing his best to ensure the old dears are scared sh#tless by a new crisis/emergency.
Certainly milking Daʿesh for all its media worth, a timely diversion from more mundane domestic politics. Anyway Madam Bishop finally gets to unleash her Super Hornets. So much for keeping stum about operational matters

Johnny Howard's stinking bag of fish-heads government was well and truly stuffed 13 years ago - every poll had them headed for a wipe out. But then 9/11 (and Tampa) happened and suddenly people were a bit uncertain and frightened for a while; suddenly Johnny Howard looked strong and sounded resolute... "We will decide who comes to this country". It was a line that they played over and over again in the election campaign because they knew that deep down Aussies were really unhappy with the boatloads of asylum-seekers (read: terrorists) coming over the horizon; the same issues that Abbott used to wear down Rudd and Gillard years later.

Anyway... the advent of a potential new(ish) never-ending war shows just how much they value their relationship with the United States over their own people. They had no hesitation in dropping $400 million for an overseas military operation but have no money whatsoever for a 30+ year high in youth unemployment at home.

..."We will decide who comes to this country". It was a line that they played over and over again in the election campaign because they knew that deep down Aussies were really unhappy with the boatloads of asylum-seekers (read: terrorists) coming over the horizon; the same issues that Abbott used to wear down Rudd and Gillard years later. ...

Of course this particularly Small Minded TightRsed mob can't be allowed to go unchecked. However, our Defence Minister is stupid to say they'll be defeated. At best perhaps they might be contained but only with capable troops on the ground with Turkey and Iran actively involved as well.
Making it a daily domestic issue is simply Abbott playing to our local (non-muslim) SMTAs whilst stroking his own Churchillian ambition.

...They had no hesitation in dropping $400 million for an overseas military operation but have no money whatsoever for a 30+ year high in youth unemployment at home.

For Operation Turn-Around-Opinion-Polls - no cost is too small How many emergencies can this guy's ego handle!
As opposed to Operation Eliminate-Boat-People, no media grandstanding opportunity is to be missed. Surely after dealing with those "illegal migrants", Morrison should have no problem with stopping terrorist plane people. After all haven't our authorities been doing that for two decades now