Tunnelling starts on North-West Rail Link

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 16 Mar 2015 22:01
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
Myrtone, stop trolling, you have gone beyond your self-proclaimed Aspergers status, your posts are now just merely trolling, you are only posting to stir up trouble. Go away.

Now, can we get this thread back to the topic, which is about the tunnelling progress on the NWRL?

Dave

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  viaprojects Chief Train Controller

one down 3 to go . Tunnel Boring Machine 3 Isabelle completed her journey.
  fixitguy Chief Train Controller

Location: In Carriage 4 on a Tangara
one down 3 to go . Tunnel Boring Machine 3 Isabelle completed her journey.
viaprojects
Already. That was quick What happens now. Will it be shipped to St Lenoards or Chatswood to start the next section or will it be deconstructed and sent back to France (i think that's the correct place of origin)?.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Community NotificationEpping Services Facility construction update - September to November 2015 they will be stored for further use.

Good video here http://www.hillsnews.com.au/story/3359134/video-sydney-metro-northwest-reaches-end-of-the-line/
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
one down 3 to go . Tunnel Boring Machine 3 Isabelle completed her journey.
Already. That was quick What happens now. Will it be shipped to St Lenoards or Chatswood to start the next section or will it be deconstructed and sent back to France (i think that's the correct place of origin)?.
I think most TBM's end their lives in the tunnel they started, dig their own grave so to speak. But if its a common model and the market is there.....

For the channel tunnel, the English TBM's are buried in the ground mid way under the channel, the French extracted theirs but were unavailable to find a buyer in the short term immediately after the project at the time. What happened to them?

I think the NWRL dig to the surface again so they will probably be considered for reuse.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Now that Barangaroo station is a definite and it looks like it would be in Hickson road due to the competent sandstone and directly in line with the harbour crossing, I think it would be very difficult to go the original route via Martin place and Pitt street due to the cross city tunnel etc. and the turns needed.



So to keep it simple I suggest driving directly from Barangaroo station to Sydenham via stations adjacent to Town hall, Central and Waterloo for a level almost straight tunnel suitable to our existing TBM.



At 20m below sea level it would go beneath the cross city tunnel and not interfere with other buildings now or in the future for the whole length.



I suggest that after the tunnel is driven a shaft is made directly above the proposed stations where a roadheader can complete the station excavation and perhaps drive across to the existing stations for a travelator.



The rectangular shaft would have to be large enough to take a number of large elevators as well as the escalators required and would generally be about 40m below ground.



Just an idea I am throwing around.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
They will definitely get Pitt Street from there. Martin Place will just depend on how far nth on Hickson Street they are, but if the answer is they will do it they will.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

RTT-Rules


My problem with Pitt street is the cross city tunnel is, I believe, 20m below sea level at Hyde park so you would have to go over it and then you may run into the City circle tunnel wheras if the metro stays 20m below sea level on the western side of the city circle line it would be a lot simpler.


As it is not that far from Town hall perhaps the roadheader driving between the metro station and the existing station could continue to Pitt street so a travelator could take people Town hall to Pitt street.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Just found this cross city tunnel pdf [color=#5d8fbd][font=Lucida Grande', 'Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]http://www.treasury.nsw.gov.au/__data/a ... lowres.pdf[/font][/color] that makes it too hard to connect to Town hall from the western side so I will leave it to them to work out.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
RTT-Rules


My problem with Pitt street is the cross city tunnel is, I believe, 20m below sea level at Hyde park so you would have to go over it and then you may run into the City circle tunnel wheras if the metro stays 20m below sea level on the western side of the city circle line it would be a lot simpler.


As it is not that far from Town hall perhaps the roadheader driving between the metro station and the existing station could continue to Pitt street so a travelator could take people Town hall to Pitt street.
eddyb
YEs, but as the railway is coming from under the harbor unlike the SHT which is in a trench and its a railway its likely it wouldn't even get the grade to get to within 20m below the surface and will in fact be still much deeper, maybe 30-40m.

(SHT is Sydney Harbor Tunnel)

Anyway, I suspect it will run underneath, escalators can manage no issue. I've used the deepest subway station in the world, in Kiev  Arsenalna station at 105m. It takes some time to get down to the bottom or back up because of the river it crosses, but still works.

Regards
Shane
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

RTT-Rules


I had just put it in the too hard basket but what you say about being below Town hall station makes a lot of sense.


If the sandstone near Barangaroo is 40m then a 25m deep Barangaroo central station would have a grade of 5% maximum north to the harbour.


So if the Barangaroo central station is 20m below sea level it would only have to go another 10m down, or 50m below ground level, to skim below the cross city ventilation tunnel to allow lifts and escalators to the Town hall station


To relieve congestion at Town hall station perhaps some big lifts like these could be built directly to the surface

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNNbwM0uK4o



rather than escalators that take over 5 minutes like these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yi5L5Q58jw


So yes it would be a lot cheaper and simpler to just drive direct Barangaroo to Sydenham via Town hall, Central and Waterloo.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Ok no problem but I still like Pitt Street as a station.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

RTT-Rules
I think you are right but would that be in place of Town hall or as well as?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
RTT-Rules
I think you are right but would that be in place of Town hall or as well as?
eddyb
Avoid Town Hall, the station has enough problems managing future organic growth than it does a step change.

Suggest making use of Martin Place and new station at Pitt Street like the plan.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

RTT-Rules
I think you are right but would that be in place of Town hall or as well as?
Avoid Town Hall, the station has enough problems managing future organic growth than it does a step change.

Suggest making use of Martin Place and new station at Pitt Street like the plan.
RTT_Rules
I respect your knowledge so I will leave it at that thanks Shane
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
RTT-Rules
I think you are right but would that be in place of Town hall or as well as?
Avoid Town Hall, the station has enough problems managing future organic growth than it does a step change.

Suggest making use of Martin Place and new station at Pitt Street like the plan.
I respect your knowledge so I will leave it at that thanks Shane
eddyb
Appreciate the compliment but I would use anything I say/recommend as purely suggestion or playing devils advocate.

If you have other ideas, continue to develop and refine.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

RTT-Rules


Well now that you mention it, what about if the Metro went in a straight line at 20m below sea level from Barangaroo, Kent St. Central, Waterloo, Sydenham.


There is a space left specifically for the metro at Kent street http://www.treasury.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/3100/Cross_City_Tunnel_contracts_summary_2008_update_lowres.pdf and it would not be hard to walk to Town hall station if you needed to get another train.


I know a lot of people do not like 50m deep stations but it allows the line to go anywhere without interfering with any surface infrastructure now or future.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
RTT-Rules


Well now that you mention it, what about if the Metro went in a straight line at 20m below sea level from Barangaroo, Kent St. Central, Waterloo, Sydenham.


There is a space left specifically for the metro at Kent street http://www.treasury.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/3100/Cross_City_Tunnel_contracts_summary_2008_update_lowres.pdf and it would not be hard to walk to Town hall station if you needed to get another train.


I know a lot of people do not like 50m deep stations but it allows the line to go anywhere without interfering with any surface infrastructure now or future.
eddyb
Once you go deep enough to need an escalator and lift, 10m or 100m makes little difference, just adds to the time in and out of the station.

Your suggestion may work, I'm not sure on the demand in that area and people flows. ie I don't know, not I have doubt.
  tom9876543 Train Controller

The Eureka Skydeck in Melbourne has a lift that can climb approx 250m in 38 seconds.
The lift would only cause a delay of about 1 minute.
I believe the depth of Sydney Harbour is generally around 30m or less.
Just build the stations 30-40m below sea level where required, the government claims of requiring steep grades seems to be bulls@#t.
  dollarbill85 Locomotive Fireman

The Eureka Skydeck in Melbourne has a lift that can climb approx 250m in 38 seconds.
The lift would only cause a delay of about 1 minute.
I believe the depth of Sydney Harbour is generally around 30m or less.
Just build the stations 30-40m below sea level where required, the government claims of requiring steep grades seems to be bulls@#t.
tom9876543
That could work. Here in Melbourne, Flagstaff and Melbourne Central Stations lower deck are about 30 metres below ground, while the lower deck at Parliament is about 40m below ground. The difference with the Sydney Harbour tunnel is obviously they have a river to contend with. Building a rail tunnel under a river hasn't been done in Australia yet, so I think this is something to be proud of
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

The Eureka Skydeck in Melbourne has a lift that can climb approx 250m in 38 seconds.
The lift would only cause a delay of about 1 minute.
I believe the depth of Sydney Harbour is generally around 30m or less.
Just build the stations 30-40m below sea level where required, the government claims of requiring steep grades seems to be bulls@#t.
That could work. Here in Melbourne, Flagstaff and Melbourne Central Stations lower deck are about 30 metres below ground, while the lower deck at Parliament is about 40m below ground. The difference with the Sydney Harbour tunnel is obviously they have a river to contend with. Building a rail tunnel under a river hasn't been done in Australia yet, so I think this is something to be proud of
dollarbill85
Even though they have done extensive drilling in Sydney harbour, because of troubles they have had with very early tunnels and the very deep holes they need to avoid, everyone will be reassured when that section is successfully completed.

That is just another reason why it would be best to launch both ways from Hickson road.

Plus lined up for a northern drive below the harbour and a southern drive straight down the western side of city circle
One backup for all four TBM
Disposal by barge from Barangaroo
Plenty of space
People are still used to construction noise.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The Eureka Skydeck in Melbourne has a lift that can climb approx 250m in 38 seconds.
The lift would only cause a delay of about 1 minute.
I believe the depth of Sydney Harbour is generally around 30m or less.
Just build the stations 30-40m below sea level where required, the government claims of requiring steep grades seems to be bulls@#t.
That could work. Here in Melbourne, Flagstaff and Melbourne Central Stations lower deck are about 30 metres below ground, while the lower deck at Parliament is about 40m below ground. The difference with the Sydney Harbour tunnel is obviously they have a river to contend with. Building a rail tunnel under a river hasn't been done in Australia yet, so I think this is something to be proud of
dollarbill85
The main difference between a rail tunnel and road is the gradients from the lowest point. Assuming the tunnel needs to be a t say -40m at the centre under then bridge, then its 2.2km to MArtin Place, assume it will go under the ESR and 3.6km to Central. Using 1:40 grade then they can rise up to 90m, but realistically lower as stations will be flat, so about 60-70m. Elevation of Central station is supposed to be around 20m but not sure where this actually is? Anyway as the line is U/G this would appear practical.
  bigdee1 Station Staff

Location: campbelltown nsw
re tunneling under rivers in Australia.Doesn't the ECR go beneath the Lane Cove River  ?
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

The main difference between a rail tunnel and road is the gradients from the lowest point. Assuming the tunnel needs to be a t say -40m at the centre under then bridge, then its 2.2km to MArtin Place, assume it will go under the ESR and 3.6km to Central. Using 1:40 grade then they can rise up to 90m, but realistically lower as stations will be flat, so about 60-70m. Elevation of Central station is supposed to be around 20m but not sure where this actually is? Anyway as the line is U/G this would appear practical.
RTT_Rules


As they have been doing all the drilling from Berrys bay to Barangaroo and have now committed to a station at Barangaroo I think we need to work out the elevation from there.


A guy said on the radio that it would have to be Barangaroo central and not Barangaroo south because of the curve required to get to Martin place.


A station at Barangaroo central would have to be 20m below sea level to achieve a grade of less than 5% to the harbour and could continue west of city circle to Central.


Do you think it is really worth the trouble trying to get to Martin place and then having the subways stacked above each other in Pitt street?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The main difference between a rail tunnel and road is the gradients from the lowest point. Assuming the tunnel needs to be a t say -40m at the centre under then bridge, then its 2.2km to MArtin Place, assume it will go under the ESR and 3.6km to Central. Using 1:40 grade then they can rise up to 90m, but realistically lower as stations will be flat, so about 60-70m. Elevation of Central station is supposed to be around 20m but not sure where this actually is? Anyway as the line is U/G this would appear practical.


As they have been doing all the drilling from Berrys bay to Barangaroo and have now committed to a station at Barangaroo I think we need to work out the elevation from there.


A guy said on the radio that it would have to be Barangaroo central and not Barangaroo south because of the curve required to get to Martin place.


A station at Barangaroo central would have to be 20m below sea level to achieve a grade of less than 5% to the harbour and could continue west of city circle to Central.


Do you think it is really worth the trouble trying to get to Martin place and then having the subways stacked above each other in Pitt street?
eddyb
The key part of this line is that it needs to go to places people want to go or it won't be used or cause more problems with the existing line. Martin Place seems to be a location that is on the desired list and may draw people off the existing NSL providing a more direct route, its also easy for the Metro line, it only needs to go underneath the existing station which is also helps with the grade.

Not sure what you mean in Pitt street?

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