Tunnelling starts on North-West Rail Link

 
Topic moved from News by dthead on 16 Mar 2015 22:01
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

RTT-Rules


Yes many people want to go to Martin place and Pitt street now but I feel that if the metro went straight up the western side of city circle it would avoid many of the problems they will have getting to Martin place and new stations adjacent to Town hall and Central would create their own patronage.


We could even combine one of the new stations with a stand alone Parramatta via Olympic park line.


Regarding Pitt street maybe I just assumed it would be kept one line above another to avoid going below buildings when I looked at http://www.treasury.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/3100/Cross_City_Tunnel_contracts_summary_2008_update_lowres.pdf or maybe I read it somewhere I am getting a bit forgetful.


Regarding the grade I suggest it stays at 20m below sea level right to Central to avoid future possible infrastructure and I have been quoted $1.5m for an elevator that would take 100 people 100m in one minute so there could be a number of them.

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  ModernGeographer98 Beginner

I think it's a big mistake that the North-west rail link will be a segregated line and a single-decked train. I think it can easily connect to the city and the rest of the network if at Epping it continues through to the City via Macquarie Park and Chatswood. At Chatswood, the trains to Berowra via Gordon just need to be cut short, but it doesn't really affect them because the NW Line will share half its patronage between Chatswood and Central. E.g. North Shore Line 5:04, 5:07, 5:10, 5:12 and NWRL 5:00, 5:15 or shared equally but this can only happen without a second harbour crossing if it will be a regular train line. It may be more expensive but it will help in the long run as the North West's population will continue to grow and could maybe connect with Riverstone later. Double-decked trains are more suitable for any future changes to the network and a unified network. We should be proud of our double-decker train fleet's culture and not make the mistake of most cities by having smaller trains carrying less people (Like NY which Clover Moore has exacerbated more by introducing light rails and bike lanes. Even in the 50s they didn't completely close down roads for these little things when Sydney's population was ten times less than now. In summary, it is cheaper, but they are uglier and good enough for goverments to convince its constituents that it has added another whole line on the new network map when really it's only a half-completed line. New 8-carriage double-decker trains to serve: Riverstone, Rouse Hill, Kellyville, Baulkham Hills, Castle Hill, Epping, Chatswood, N Sydney, Wynyard, Town Hall, Central, Redfern then to Berowra/Hornsby via Eastwood and Epping. The new T1 Northern Line is incomplete and this is the solution.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

If they can land planes 1 minute apart they could run driverless trains at the same frequency I think so all it would need for everyone to get a seat is more seats on more carriages on more trains the capacity is almost endless with driverless trains.

Also I have been on trains with empty seats and people stand as they are only going a couple of stops and it is not worth while sitting down especially if you then have to ask another person to let you out.

No, No, No in my opinion it would be a very backward step to go for last century technology when driverless SD is far better for all stops and tunnels.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Politicians listen to the public and engineers listen to politicians so it may not be too late to avoid threading the metro through existing infrastructure and save millions if we want to just keep the metro simple Central to Chatswood


As many people have pointed out decisions have to be made at a very early stage to avoid very expensive changes and it may still be possible to plan for a very simple route on the western side of the city circle with a deep station at north Sydney.


It could be driven from the Barangaroo station south to Central at 20m below sea level with new stations adjacent to Town hall and Central with the latter having provision for a stand alone western express.


Driving north it would have to go from 70m below sea level under the harbour to 50m above sea level at north Sydney in 500m so it would need a station a bit over 100m deep which would take 1 minute in a bank of 6 big elevators at about $1.5m each.


Now it is not in the existing plan to have a metro station at north Sydney but I caught the Epping via Mac park the other day and I thought someone would get hurt it was so crowded and a lot of passengers got off at north Sydney so in my opinion there must be a metro station there.


TBM 3&4 are finished and could be set up 20m deep ASAP in Hickson road ready to start north or south.  

[font=Calibri]http://picturepark.databasics.com.au/Go/zgIgI9xl[/font]  


If the metro stays underground all the way to the Chatswood tunnel it could have a grade of less than 3% without the hassle of launching from up there.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Victoria Cross station will be built, no if's or buts on that one. It would be needed as I expect in the future a branch to the Nth Beaches. Additionally Nth Syd is in the top 5 stations for the network, how could you justify a by-pass?
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Victoria Cross station will be built, no if's or buts on that one. It would be needed as I expect in the future a branch to the Nth Beaches. Additionally Nth Syd is in the top 5 stations for the network, how could you justify a by-pass?
RTT_Rules
It does not bother me if Victoria cross station gets built or not but having witnessed the chaos from Central to north Sydney there definitely needs to be a station there where a lot of people get off.

As I said before a station 100m deep would be cheaper than an extra 1km of tunnel to get the grade from the harbour.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Mockup of new trains soon available to view

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-05/nsw-north-west-rail-link-driverless-train-model/6915074
  Redaxe Locomotive Driver

RTT-Rules
I think you are right but would that be in place of Town hall or as well as?
Avoid Town Hall, the station has enough problems managing future organic growth than it does a step change.

Suggest making use of Martin Place and new station at Pitt Street like the plan.
I respect your knowledge so I will leave it at that thanks Shane
Appreciate the compliment but I would use anything I say/recommend as purely suggestion or playing devils advocate.

If you have other ideas, continue to develop and refine.
RTT_Rules
So you think there won't be any issues with the bends between Barangaroo and Martin Place? I agree with avoiding Town Hall - that was clearly an obvious decision for the new line to bypass that station - and Wynyard.

The only thing I think should be planned (and hopefully the powers that be are thinking about this) is what to do with Western suburbs capacity.
Presuming this line runs to the Bankstown line that alleviates the CityCircle but it doesn't really do much to help the Western Line which already is at or over capacity. I recently caught a train from Central to Harris Park at about 7pm and it was still packed like a sardine tin (7pm! - that's 2 hours after people start clocking off from work!)

Having a station at Sydney University could help slightly as that will alleviate Redfern a bit. But they really need another Western line; if not now than certainly in the future and as these things take years to build now is really the time to be thinking about this.

This might be a metro running underneath Broadway to Parramatta or it could run through Pyrmont and White Bay, and then down to Parramatta Road. The metro stations would have to intercept the existing CBD stations at some point so now might be a good time for the government to reserve space adjacent to the planned CBD stations so they can integrate easily.
Exiting the East side of the city a metro could swing south and stop at Surry Hills/Darlinghurst, then Waterloo and continue down Anzac Parade to Maroubra/Malabar. That could open up more of the Eastern suburbs to more med/high density housing.
  eddyb Chief Train Controller

Redaxe  


Although Shane is more qualified and smarter than me he has a job but I am really into the metro and from what I have read and heard since they decided on Barangaroo station it has made a hard job even more difficult.


For a start Barangaroo south station now has to be Barangaroo central due to the TBM not being able to turn too sharply so it is further away from the expensive Wynyard walk, Pitt street from what I believe will have to have one tunnel above another to avoid buildings and then there is the extra distance apart from grade problems and the disruption.


I believe it would cost an extra $1b more than just a straight level drive south keeping west of city circle with a station at Barangaroo south and stations next  to Town hall and Central and the money saved could then be put towards a Central/Parramatta non stop stand alone line.
  Redaxe Locomotive Driver

Redaxe  


Although Shane is more qualified and smarter than me he has a job but I am really into the metro and from what I have read and heard since they decided on Barangaroo station it has made a hard job even more difficult.


For a start Barangaroo south station now has to be Barangaroo central due to the TBM not being able to turn too sharply so it is further away from the expensive Wynyard walk, Pitt street from what I believe will have to have one tunnel above another to avoid buildings and then there is the extra distance apart from grade problems and the disruption.


I believe it would cost an extra $1b more than just a straight level drive south keeping west of city circle with a station at Barangaroo south and stations next  to Town hall and Central and the money saved could then be put towards a Central/Parramatta non stop stand alone line.
eddyb
Sydney is certainly no stranger to over-engineered and complex tunnel designs - the airport railway tunnel - I believe they tunneled through mud and they had to bring out a very special tunnel boring machine specific to that task?

Then there was the Chatswood-Epping tunnel which for some bizarre reason had to go under the Lane Cove River adding significant length & cost to the line and added to train journey times.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Redaxe  


Although Shane is more qualified and smarter than me he has a job but I am really into the metro and from what I have read and heard since they decided on Barangaroo station it has made a hard job even more difficult.


For a start Barangaroo south station now has to be Barangaroo central due to the TBM not being able to turn too sharply so it is further away from the expensive Wynyard walk, Pitt street from what I believe will have to have one tunnel above another to avoid buildings and then there is the extra distance apart from grade problems and the disruption.


I believe it would cost an extra $1b more than just a straight level drive south keeping west of city circle with a station at Barangaroo south and stations next  to Town hall and Central and the money saved could then be put towards a Central/Parramatta non stop stand alone line.
eddyb
Sorry, I'm not. If I was I'd be managing TBM's for a living making 5 x my money. I just ask questions and spend too much time on google/wiki.

As for the routing of the Metro, I have no idea why they are going this way, I would liked to have seen it pop under Circular Quay, but I'm sure there is a very sound reason for not doing this and perhaps going to Baranagroo is part of this reason.

Redaxe,
You won't hear any complaints from me on the ECRL being built the way it was supposed to. The final outcome is pathetic.
  Redaxe Locomotive Driver

Redaxe,
You won't hear any complaints from me on the ECRL being built the way it was supposed to. The final outcome is pathetic.
RTT_Rules

Yeah that brings back the good old days of the NSW Labor party - allowing greenies to tell engineers how to build a railway Rolling Eyes
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich


Then there was the Chatswood-Epping tunnel which for some bizarre reason had to go under the Lane Cove River adding significant length & cost to the line and added to train journey times.
Redaxe
It was a true case of politicians opposing for the sake of opposing. They made a big thing about a short section of rail line being above ground at the edge of the Lane Cove Park, next to an already busy road, so underground it went.

The result was a more expensive, longer route that required the deletion of a station under a college (since closed) and relocation of Nth Ryde station to a poorer site.

The stance is similar to the one being taken by Foley on Sydney Light Rail (which he previously supported). He is hoping for problems during the construction so he can pile on with the "I told you sos" and get some political capital. Does he believe his own BS? Probably not.

Cheers

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