Trainorama S Class clicking bogie

 
  trainsguy Locomotive Fireman

Location: Paralowie S.A.
Hi All,
It looks like the Traino S Class has the same problem as the 44's and 930's with split gears.
Gave my S 312 a run this morning on the layout and upon reversing it there was the clicking sound as my 930's had before I got ride of them.
Will have to pull the bogie apart and see how many gears are split and I will give the fix that is in the latest ARMA a try and hopefully it fixes it.
Falling that I will look at replacing the crap gears from traino with a replacement of the bogies using Auscision B Class bogies.
I will never ever be buying an other Trainorama product ever again as if there is a fault with there product the lifetime is not worth the paper it is written on as was the case with the 44 & 930 gears where they make you pay for replacements were it is a problem that was a manufacturing fault.

Not happy
Trainsguy

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  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Just give me a minute to get some popcorn going.......this is shaping-up to be another long, drawn-out saga.

However, I will just start the ball rolling by saying that NO COMPANY (that I know of) in this industry, offers anything like a lifetime warranty. I have 6 of Trainorama's 44 class mechanisms (ie: 5x 44 and 1x Mansfield brass 43 class) and they've all had at least one axle that was split.

Guess what??? I dealt with it!!! Shyte happens from time to time and has to be dealt with.

That Mansfield 43 class is one of several mansfield diesels I've owned and EVERY ONE of them has had bogies that are total kkrapp!!!

I couldn't fix them, so I had do that thing that we old farts used to HAVE to do....."MODEL".... and I worked it out and solved the problem.

One way of solving the problem (as you've apparently done with your 930/s) is to sell the model/s.....problem solved for ever!!! Too easy; if you're prepared to forego owing that particular class of loco.

Anyway.....time for somebody else to chime in with his/her 2 cents worth.

Roachie
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Well as it is a genuine manufacturing fault and if it was an appliance or something it would be recalled to either fix the problem if possible or if it cannot be fixed safely then your money back no question's asked. In this case a recall might be a bit much but offering up a better made muff's free of charge to anyone who has a locomotive or locomotives like this might be the best option actually to maintain faith in the brand at least. How many more Traino models are affected like this only time will tell by the looks of it.

It will only get Traino a bad reputation in the end for not wanting to cure the problems as they have been found. The only other thing I think they should have done with these replacement axles was made the gear itself a bit wider so that the gears cannot disengage going around curves etc on your layout, one fix, once only and the job would be done and dusted, which is what modellers would expect. Just as a side thing here how long will these new axle's or muff's last as well,can they last the distance or do we just get more of the same down the track, (pardon the pun)!

Even old Lima's run and they are now considered to be rough as guts mech's but they do at least work.

I only have 4 Traino locomotives all 930's and by the sound of things I wont be getting many more!

Oh and while Roachie is sort of correct in saying you could work out your own fix to the problem, there is however the other side of the coin we should not have to fix brand new locomotives some that have never run and just stored for later use!
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Just give me a minute to get some popcorn going.......
"Roachie"
I just came to watch Michael Jackon eat popcorn...
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Those eating pop corn can laugh all you like but when you have several models which are your pride and joy and cost a small fortune to buy as well this is not good news at all. Some on  here disgust me that we should accept things like this, to be honest things like this in this day and age should not be happening really but they continue to do so as most of the modellers accept these major faults. Don't accept them complain to the distributors en masse if needed. Manufacturing faults are not of the modellers doing as even those that have not run at all have done it.

If you want a layout full of static models it would be cheaper to buy that part publication with the static OO models in it! I for one want my models to run though for a good few decades before things start to go really wrong, not a couple of years down the track when they are dropping like flies almost! Someone needs to lift their game and any excuse is simply that an excuse to palm it off.

I would rather see a manufacturer/distributor voluntarily fix the issues with them rather than have to take it to court or something fighting and screaming to get something done. Their solution to buy new axles etc is just not good enough, why should we the purchaser's have to buy more to get new models to simply run along the model track. If it is a known fault which it is then it should be a free fix to all that have the models not just those that can stump up a receipt for them! A lot would have been bought new and then on sold to friends etc after a time but the fault affects them all not just some!
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
I tend to agree with you David, although probably not quite as passionately as you. I am not yet disgusted by those that take a more relaxed approach ha ha.

I have four Traino 44s but have never run them to know if they have split gears. Maybe I should.

There are two things that really bug me. One is that they took so long to come up with a solution. There are many people here in Australia capable of cutting gears. Delrin is readily available also. I was visiting a friend today and he pulled out his 0.5 module cutters. He is now making up an 11 tooth indexing plate. This fellow is a veteran railway modeller and a model engineer. Although nothing has been produced yet, the conversation to spark his thought took all of half an hour. Surely a company/manufacturer like the one in question, that probably has a diverse bunch of modellers revolving through their doors could have brain stormed a plan B? Obviously not! Maybe they couldn't go down this path for some reason, I don't know?

The second gripe is that they didn't hand them out for free. For nothing more than simply buying a model (you may not have ever even used it) you get to spend $5 extra, per new wheel then have the joy of trying to fit the damn thing. They were selling complete 44 class locomotives for $150 (That's only $60 more than the NWSL fix). Surely the OEM replacement part didn't cost too much to reproduce? Generally wheels cost a couple of bucks so the gear must be worth what, a dollar? I wonder if the replacement wheel stub axle diameter is the same as the original? Does the new wheel set include bearings?

I have no idea how wide spread the clicking problem is but noticed that they have now run out of wheel set stock, more to come. I find it very disappointing that this company couldn't spend a couple of thousand dollars (perhaps) to satisfy a known and acknowledged manufacturing fault. Hopefully the new muff outlasts the previous attempt. I believe more value would have been gained if the fix was offered free of charge. This in my eyes would have only helped Trainorama, particularly now that their latest project is most likely under competition pressure.

That's my two cents,

Linton



Those eating pop corn can laugh all you like but when you have several models which are your pride and joy and cost a small fortune to buy as well this is not good news at all. Some on  here disgust me that we should accept things like this, to be honest things like this in this day and age should not be happening really but they continue to do so as most of the modellers accept these major faults. Don't accept them complain to the distributors en masse if needed. Manufacturing faults are not of the modellers doing as even those that have not run at all have done it.

If you want a layout full of static models it would be cheaper to buy that part publication with the static OO models in it! I for one want my models to run though for a good few decades before things start to go really wrong, not a couple of years down the track when they are dropping like flies almost! Someone needs to lift their game and any excuse is simply that an excuse to palm it off.

I would rather see a manufacturer/distributor voluntarily fix the issues with them rather than have to take it to court or something fighting and screaming to get something done. Their solution to buy new axles etc is just not good enough, why should we the purchaser's have to buy more to get new models to simply run along the model track. If it is a known fault which it is then it should be a free fix to all that have the models not just those that can stump up a receipt for them! A lot would have been bought new and then on sold to friends etc after a time but the fault affects them all not just some!
"David Peters"
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Products in general have a time limited warranty, your lack of use on that time is not the fault of the manufacturer, nor is it their responsibility. If you wait til your product is out of warranty to use it then more fool you. What you are effectively demanding David is an indefinite warranty period, you will never get this, if you want a distance based warranty aka a vehicle style warranty then you best get cracking working on an accurate scale sized odometer for fitting to a model. You will also need to accept that even distance based warranties are lawfully attached to time based limits too. Just beware, that yourself and others included will not be willing to pay more for this feature, so you best get used to working for free.
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
I think the lack of use statement has really only been used to demonstrate that it is not a use or misuse issue. It is an engineering flaw in regards to the material, design and process used in manufacture. All I am saying is that the manufacturer has recognised there is a problem. It would have been in their best interest to supply, for free, what should have been a cheap part so as to rectify those effected 44 class paper weights. The real kick in the bum is that the $5 part may fail again.

In the real world I am a consumer. Non of these manufactures are my mates, I don't care if they have scribbled in AMRM before, I don't care that somebody who wrote a book once did the model research and I certainly don't back these people so I can review models and fill my cabinet. I buy things because I want to and support those manufacturers that offer 'some' form of customer support.  

You're right Aaron. A life time warranty on a model train is not going to happen, however the reputation of a manufacturer, over their in business lifetime may be tarnished due to some trivial yet vital part. What a shame as the models themselves are very nice.

Linton




Products in general have a time limited warranty, your lack of use on that time is not the fault of the manufacturer, nor is it their responsibility. If you wait til your product is out of warranty to use it then more fool you. What you are effectively demanding David is an indefinite warranty period, you will never get this, if you want a distance based warranty aka a vehicle style warranty then you best get cracking working on an accurate scale sized odometer for fitting to a model. You will also need to accept that even distance based warranties are lawfully attached to time based limits too. Just beware, that yourself and others included will not be willing to pay more for this feature, so you best get used to working for free.
"Aaron"
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Come on Aaron. Surely you could have devised a way for your decoders to log motor revolutions, convert using the gear ratio and equating that to distance travelled. 1/87 Odometers are only for DC users ha ha!

Linton

if you want a distance based warranty aka a vehicle style warranty then you best get cracking working on an accurate scale sized odometer for fitting to a model.
"Aaron"
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Until Trainorama can demonstrate that they have upgraded the gears, any future release by is going to be met with skepticism by modellers and may suffer from poor sales due to the possibility of clicking on the wheel sets.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Actually Linton, there are not many companies in Australia who are set up to cut gears, and if they did machine replacement muffs, the cost would be far too high. The only practical way to produce them is to injection mould the muff, and there you run into the cost of the tool to produce them, probably worth around $15-20K to have cut.

As for handing them out free, well that is not going to happen, unless the modeller removes the original wheelset and sends it in for exchange.

But as pointed out many times in the past, the problem was not necessarily the muff on the wheel, but rather an intermediate gear that was too narrow, that could miss meshing with the gear before it.

The only practical way of solving this one would have been to offer replacement bogies for the modeller to fit, and dismantling the bogie to replace the faulty gears is beyond the capability of most modellers. Clearly the company in question weighed all this up and decided they could not afford to take this approach, or simply were not willing to take the cost hit.
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Hi Geoff,

The fellow I visited yesterday is more than capable of cutting gears. Had been doing this for O scale modellers for years. I would not expect a third party to do this for free, however the NWSL price of US $14.95 is a little excessive. As Bill stated the problem of split gears has been occurring for years with brass models. I have a packet of some intermediate replacement gears, for some Aussie brass locomotive sitting on my bench that were manufactured by my mate year ago. Interestingly the price per gear, written on the bag is $2.50 each. These gears where likely manufactured due to a brass importer seeking a solution decades ago along with the need to keep personal models moving.

I know of another two blokes that can also perform this type of work in a two hundred km radius. Would it be worth their time, probably not. For me though it is and I will be making my own replacements. I like ultimate fixes.

As for injection moulding, I am sure in the Chinese factory changeover (what ever happened) that the original tooling was lost, did not follow or something? This is where a manufacture has to become clever and use similar designs in future products. Maybe the 48 class will use a 0.5, 11 tooth 6.36 gear for the Muff. That way spares would suit future and previous models.

Obviously I am not in the loop and none of us have all the information on how the decision was made. It's not so much how the decision was made but the consequence it will have on prospective consumers. It's obvious talking to people and reading these threads that it's a real issue. Perception can be someone's reality.

I would like to end my input to this thread by acknowledging a manufacture  that does actually bend over backwards for the customer. With any of my DJH models if anything fails, falls off or is missing Al will have it sorted. If you support him he seems to support you back.

I guess as the RTR manufactures may not be in total control of the production of these models, it's safe to say that problems will pop up. It is however our right to make the decision whether to buy a product based on our own ideas of what each of us expects. I want a model that will last.

Btw Geoff the boxes arrived safely. Thanks,

Linton

Actually Linton, there are not many companies in Australia who are set up to cut gears, and if they did machine replacement muffs, the cost would be far too high. The only practical way to produce them is to injection mould the muff, and there you run into the cost of the tool to produce them, probably worth around $15-20K to have cut.

As for handing them out free, well that is not going to happen, unless the modeller removes the original wheelset and sends it in for exchange.

But as pointed out many times in the past, the problem was not necessarily the muff on the wheel, but rather an intermediate gear that was too narrow, that could miss meshing with the gear before it.

The only practical way of solving this one would have been to offer replacement bogies for the modeller to fit, and dismantling the bogie to replace the faulty gears is beyond the capability of most modellers. Clearly the company in question weighed all this up and decided they could not afford to take this approach, or simply were not willing to take the cost hit.
"TheBlacksmith"
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The fellow I visited yesterday is more than capable of cutting gears.

I know of another two blokes that can also perform this type of work in a two hundred km radius.
"linton78"
That's nice, how quickly can they cut 30,000 of them? They're injection moulded not cut for a reason.

Would it be worth their time, probably not.
"linton78"
And this is exactly why the OEM has sourced them from China, and exactly why they're not free...
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Come on Aaron. Surely you could have devised a way for your decoders to log motor revolutions, convert using the gear ratio and equating that to distance travelled. 1/87 Odometers are only for DC users ha ha!
"linton78"
No need for me to do it, decoders already can do it, but what would be the point? A) This tech does not come for free - and why should it? B) These models are sold without DCC installed, the only truly sensible thing to do.
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Settle down mate. I am not going to make them for you. I will do it for myself. I did not say that injection moulding was a bad thing. It obviously works for everyone else. I was simply stating that this problem had a few ways of being rectified, even if on a small level scale.

As I said gears have been being made to replace splitting problems long before you got onto this forum and told us all how good you are.

My main point is that I think it has tarnished the manufacturer slightly regarding reliability. Time will tell.

Linton



That's nice, how quickly can they cut 30,000 of them? They're injection moulded not cut for a reason.

And this is exactly why the OEM has sourced them from China, and exactly why they're not free...
"Aaron"
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
I was having a joke mate.

Linton

No need for me to do it, decoders already can do it, but what would be the point? A) This tech does not come for free - and why should it? B) These models are sold without DCC installed, the only truly sensible thing to do.
"Aaron"
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Has anybody opened up a box of jaffas yet?

oh that's not what I meant to say Sad
Has anybody opened up a GM to look at their bogies yet? Mine are stored whilst I start applying scenery to my layout.

I think the bogies are out of the new factory and should be ok as I was told the Yanks got on to the reason the muffs were splitting. They blamed the Chinese for cheating and adding too much reclaimed material into the new plastic before pouring the dies.

Although not for reasons of drive, it was interesting that Auscision are selling three varieties of A.B Class bogies for $45 and have been for a few years.

And of course I actually have wheel flats on several Auscision B Class and one TOR S Class

From my blog
2010 April 4 Oh Dear! Sunday

Here is one I have not noticed or heard of before....

I spent some time today speed matching my fleet of A,B and S Class engines.
Whilst I was doing it I tried to work out a clicking noise that had developed in two A Class and one S Class.
Sounded like wheel flats and I checked the wheels and to the naked eye they looked all right. So I checked the gears and found the bogies were all pretty dry. I used teflon grease to lube each locomotive as I got to it, but the noise in the affected engines would not go away.
I decided to write a message here and see if anybody else had seen this annoying problem, and if you knew what it was.However....

I continued on and speed matched all 20 locomotives that I have on the layout. Later on as I was demonstrating things to my son and grandson, an engine that was not affected stalled in a difficult place, and as it was a long train, I grabbed the rear vehicle and gently pulled the stalled locomotive back out and found it was now able to run. I started to drive forward again to see if I could find the dead section, this time the train continued through the section, however the dreaded wheel flat sound was now coming from this locomotive. I removed the wheel sets and this is what I found....



I only have one 930 that is clicking because of a cracked muff, and it does not have wheel flats. I can only assume that I had a wiring problem. In fact I don't know, still, what caused the flats apart from it having something to do with multi units. No Austrain engine has a flat, despite using near identical mechanisms

Cheers
Rod





  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Hi Rod,

Your paragraph directly below sounds promising!

Linton



I think the bogies are out of the new factory and should be ok as I was told the Yanks got on to the reason the muffs were splitting. They blamed the Chinese for cheating and adding too much reclaimed material into the new plastic before pouring the dies.

Although not for reasons of drive, it was interesting that Auscision are selling three varieties of A.B Class bogies for $45 and have been for a few years.

And of course I actually have wheel flats on several Auscision B Class and one TOR S Class

From my blog
2010 April 4 Oh Dear!   Sunday

Here is one I have not noticed or heard of before....

I spent some time today speed matching my fleet of A,B and S Class engines.
Whilst I was doing it I tried to work out a clicking noise that had developed in two A Class and one S Class.
Sounded like wheel flats and I checked the wheels and to the naked eye they looked all right. So I checked the gears and found the bogies were all pretty dry. I used teflon grease to lube each locomotive as I got to it, but the noise in the affected engines would not go away.
I decided to write a message here and see if anybody else had seen this annoying problem, and if you knew what it was.However....

I continued on and speed matched all 20 locomotives that I have on the layout. Later on as I was demonstrating things to my son and grandson, an engine that was not affected stalled in a difficult place, and as it was a long train, I grabbed the rear vehicle and gently pulled the stalled locomotive back out and found it was now able to run. I started to drive forward again to see if I could find the dead section, this time the train continued through the section, however the dreaded wheel flat sound was now coming from this locomotive. I removed the wheel sets and this is what I found....



I only have one 930 that is clicking because of a cracked muff, and it does not have wheel flats. I can only assume that I had a wiring problem. In fact I don't know, still, what caused the flats apart from it having something to do with multi units. No Austrain engine has a flat, despite using near identical mechanisms

Cheers
Rod





"comtrain"
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Of course the black muffs are the ones in Sanda Kan built Trainorama (and Austrains) engines.
As Blacksmith says, the meshing of the gears is  the real problem.
Even though the gear on the black muffs is off center it appears the whole muff is moved to one side and possibly badly located. I had not re-gauged these wheels and am not certain the gauge is selected by pushing them home. Perhaps the muff can be loaded out of mesh? and re-centering the muff may over come some problems. I will have to look at that, but one of you young ones with better eyes....?
cheers
Rod
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Rod,

It sounded like the Blacksmith thought the meshing problem occurred further up in the drive train. May have interpreted his description incorrectly. I have only heard of the muff gear being too narrow and not meshing correctly. I guess if the idler gear is also too narrow that will not help the skinny muff. I have to place an order with NWSL for some wheels so will grab one of their muffs also. I have heard that they actually made the gear wider which should help things. I am sure if the muff splits this is also a big problem. I have some bowser mechs where this same thing has occurred. The wheels don't stay fitted anymore big problem. Time to make some of these gears also.

Hopefully with the NWSL version in hand I can get up to Moss Vale and cut a few gears. My mate is biting at the bit to get stuck into it. He loves showing us young fellas how to machine things up.

I have never seen flat spots on a model locomotive wheel before that have occurred during use! Interesting.

Linton



Of course the black muffs are the ones in Sanda Kan built Trainorama (and Austrains) engines.
As Blacksmith says, the meshing of the gears is  the real problem.
Even though the gear on the black muffs is off center it appears the whole muff is moved to one side and possibly badly located. I had not re-gauged these wheels and am not certain the gauge is selected by pushing them home. Perhaps the muff can be loaded out of mesh? and re-centering the muff may over come some problems. I will have to look at that, but one of you young ones with better eyes....?
cheers
Rod
"comtrain"
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Settle down mate. I am not going to make them for you. I will do it for myself. I did not say that injection moulding was a bad thing. It obviously works for everyone else. I was simply stating that this problem had a few ways of being rectified, even if on a small level scale.
"linton78"
I am not unsettled, you implied that there was a local capacity to 'fix' this 'issue', and used that as a rod to bash the OEM. Seemingly when called out on this 'you've done a Peters' and now tell us the fix is on a small scale, which is of little help to most.

OEM faults need to be fixed on OEM scale, a couple of dozen gears for yourself done by 'cottage' cutting is of little benefit when the alleged scale is 5k models by six axles each...

Now do you see the point Mr Blacksmith and I are making?
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
I can definitely understand how flat spots can occur on our models' wheels. All you need is a multi-loco hauled train, where the locos are much too powerful for the weight of the train. The locos (usually needs to be 3 or more) are able to haul the train even though one of the locos is stalled (or not working) for some reason.

If the remaining locos that are working have sufficient power to be able to haul the "dead" loco and the train without any noticeable slowing or "squealing", then the dead loco's wheels will get a set of flat spots VERY quickly.

When I'm running 3 or more diesels in a consist, I make sure I walk around with the train and periodically get down at rail level to observe the rotation of all the wheels. I also look closely at the state of the couplers....in that there shouldn't be any bunching of the couplers between the locos. Finally, in my particular case, when the train hits a grade (mine are relatively steep....up to say 1 in 30), then it will be obvious if one loco isn't working because the whole train will slow/stop due to lack of up-front power.

Roachie
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
When this problem was first noticed, Roachie sent me over a bogie to examine, so I disassembled it and this is what I found:



The problem was that the intermediate gears in the gear train were quite narrow, when they did not need to be. If you look at the two gears of the intermediate gear train, indicated by the red arrow, you will notice they are only barely in mesh. In addition, they are able to slide sideways to some extent, and when they do this, they can slip out of mesh. This characteristically happens when the locomotive is under load, or on curves. And it is what causes the clicking sound, not split gears at all, but the teeth of the two gears clicking from one tooth to the next.

You will notice just to the right of the red arrow, the half-round area where the wheel-set sits, and normally it meshes quite well with the intermediate gears. There have been some issue with split muffs, but again, this is not the cause of the clicking sound.

The simplest solution to the problem is to increase the width of the intermediate gears so that they can slide sideways but stay in mesh. However to solve the problem for the customers with clicking, and therefore slipping drive trains, would require the whole bogie to be disassembled to replace the gears.

My view was that many modellers would not be able to perform this work, and the simplest solution would be to replace the entire bogie.

Geoff
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Ok Aaron,

Well I am glad your not unsettled. That just leaves rude.

I stated at the beginning that I have no idea about the numbers involved. You made up 30,000, maybe thats what you heard from some where else who knows. To be honest the only place I have actually heard about these problems are here on Railpage. I have four 44s and could make enough for me and the odd one for mates, if needed. I may only need four gears in my life time, who knows. You most certainly do not. Once again you have just made figures up.

North West Short Line came up with a solution by machining gears. I am sure this solution was due to a couple of actual doers that sent bogies to NWSL. Unfortunately these are quite expensive and not viable for everyone, including myself. I like this hobby because of the problem solving and thinking side of things. I therefore talked to someone that has done it before and came up with my own fix. After listening to Mr Blacksmith along with others a wider gear may just affect an ultimate fix. This is something the mass produced replacements still don't fix.

I have no intention of making Trainorama look bad. People can come to their own conclusions. It has affected how people view their quality though. That is fact. I, more than you ever will, would like Trainorama to continue and prosper. My family used to have ties to the company and I would hate to see its demise.

I am happy to listen to Geoff as he has miles of experience in this field. You on the other hand have just constantly told everyone how good you are on every facet of modelling the railways. I really do look forward to seeing something that you have created.

It would be nice if there was a thorough fix for this problem. It sounds like the material side of things may be on the up however the design may still be lacking. That's why I decided to talk about making my own.

Thanks for your useful comments,

Linton









I am not unsettled, you implied that there was a local capacity to 'fix' this 'issue', and used that as a rod to bash the OEM. Seemingly when called out on this 'you've done a Peters' and now tell us the fix is on a small scale, which is of little help to most.

OEM faults need to be fixed on OEM scale, a couple of dozen gears for yourself done by 'cottage' cutting is of little benefit when the alleged scale is 5k models by six axles each...

Now do you see the point Mr Blacksmith and I are making?
"Aaron"
  linton78 Train Controller

Location: South Coast NSW
Completely agree. The gears are just so thin aren't they. I also agree that it is probably not a job everybody can achieve. If you break the bogie itself the chances of getting another one are next to nothing.

The issue is big. Hopefully a re-run of improved 44s along with spare parts may help things. Probably just a dream.

Those that can will be able to help keep there models plodding away. Those that can't will have to find somebody that can.

Thanks for the pics,

Linton



When this problem was first noticed, Roachie sent me over a bogie to examine, so I disassembled it and this is what I found:



The problem was that the intermediate gears in the gear train were quite narrow, when they did not need to be. If you look at the two gears of the intermediate gear train, indicated by the red arrow, you will notice they are only barely in mesh. In addition, they are able to slide sideways to some extent, and when they do this, they can slip out of mesh. This characteristically happens when the locomotive is under load, or on curves. And it is what causes the clicking sound, not split gears at all, but the teeth of the two gears clicking from one tooth to the next.

You will notice just to the right of the red arrow, the half-round area where the wheel-set sits, and normally it meshes quite well with the intermediate gears. There have been some issue with split muffs, but again, this is not the cause of the clicking sound.

The simplest solution to the problem is to increase the width of the intermediate gears so that they can slide sideways but stay in mesh. However to solve the problem for the customers with clicking, and therefore slipping drive trains, would require the whole bogie to be disassembled to replace the gears.

My view was that many modellers would not be able to perform this work, and the simplest solution would be to replace the entire bogie.

Geoff
"TheBlacksmith"

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