Aurizon Loco Sale

 
  GLM

Probably silly question, but out of interest does anyone know how much these locomotives sold for?

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  jmt Deputy Commissioner

Probably silly question, but out of interest does anyone know how much these locomotives sold for?
GLM
Not the ex WA locos specifically, however

When Transnet purchased the 20 2250 Class and 14 2170 Class in 2014, the locos passed through the hands at least 2 companies (one a BEE) between Aurizon and Transnet, and one of the sales in this chain may have occurred in Mauritius (a tax haven). Aurizon sold the locos for A$8 mil in round figures (2250 A$220k/2170 A$180k each). This sum was disclosed by an apparatchik under persistent questioning by financial journalists at a press conference at Esselen Park (to release Transnets half yearly figures), in late October 2014. The SA Sunday Times ran an article 1/2 November 2014 giving this Aurizon figure, plus an amount equal to A$17 mil paid by Transnet to the BEE for the locos. Transnet did not rebut this article. At the max handling/freight/insurance would not have exceeded A$3 mil, that is at least A$6 mil in middleman profits, and commissions to ANC slush-funds.

Transnet reputedly would not deal directly with Aurizon, and insised the purchase be transacted through a BEE. As there were a number of companies (sales) and jurisdictions in the chain between Aurizon and Transnet, Aurizon should not be in breach of of the Commonwealth Criminal Code Act of 1995, Subsection 70.3(1) - bribery of Foreign Officials (Transnet is a parastatal, so its employees will be viewed by the act as foreign officials).

For those curious re BEEs, they are black owned companies who have priority over white owned companies for government business, the reverse apartheid that is the norm in the new South Africa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Economic_Empowerment
  Bahnfrend Station Master

Location: Perth, WA
Sorry jmt, but I'm really struggling to see how it could possibly be even suggested, on the information set out in your post, that Aurizon ever bribed anyone in connection with the deal you describe.

Aurizon wanted to sell some old iron to a foreign purchaser, presumably on the basis that the old iron would not be used again in Australia.  Someone informs Aurizon that an end user in Africa is interested, but won't deal with Aurizon direct.  So Aurizon sells the old iron to some other entity, being a foreign-based purchaser, for a fair price, perhaps on condition that the old iron is exported and never comes back to Oz.

Even if this deal is made in the expectation that the foreign-based purchaser has done, or will do, some other deal, perhaps with the end user, or perhaps with some other entity, Aurizon is not, and will not be, a party to that other deal.  After arranging export shipping, the purchaser pays Aurizon and exports the old iron, which simply disappears over the western horizon.


Quite frankly, whatever happens to the old iron after that point has nothing whatever to do with Aurizon (unless the old iron returns to Australia, in which case the only possible consequence might be that the foreign-based purchaser may find itself at the wrong end of a damages or injunction claim by Aurizon).
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Don't mind jmt, he just likes talking about foreign goverments and their antics, correct or not and whether there's a connection or not.
  antiussentiment Locomotive Driver

Location: perth
yes.. because after all it's only foreign governments that deal in graft and gravy..
~rolls eyes~
  jmt Deputy Commissioner

Sorry jmt, but I'm really struggling to see how it could possibly be even suggested, on the information set out in your post, that Aurizon ever bribed anyone in connection with the deal you describe.

Aurizon wanted to sell some old iron to a foreign purchaser, presumably on the basis that the old iron would not be used again in Australia.  Someone informs Aurizon that an end user in Africa is interested, but won't deal with Aurizon direct.  So Aurizon sells the old iron to some other entity, being a foreign-based purchaser, for a fair price, perhaps on condition that the old iron is exported and never comes back to Oz.

Even if this deal is made in the expectation that the foreign-based purchaser has done, or will do, some other deal, perhaps with the end user, or perhaps with some other entity, Aurizon is not, and will not be, a party to that other deal.  After arranging export shipping, the purchaser pays Aurizon and exports the old iron, which simply disappears over the western horizon.


Quite frankly, whatever happens to the old iron after that point has nothing whatever to do with Aurizon (unless the old iron returns to Australia, in which case the only possible consequence might be that the foreign-based purchaser may find itself at the wrong end of a damages or injunction claim by Aurizon).
Bahnfrend
If you had read what I had written, what I said was that there were at least 2 transactions seperating Aurizon and Transnet

All I an doing is repeating what was written in the SA press

Perhaps  GT46C-ACe may like to broaden his horizons by reading "The Shaddow Wiorld" by former ANC parliamentarian and journalist Andrew Fienstein, and the recently released "How long will South Africa Survive? The looming Crisis" by RW Johnson,
and reformat his ideas re corrupt socialist politicians
http://www.amazon.com/long-will-South-Africa-Survive-ebook/dp/B00WQ5CVN6
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Politics and railways, don't see why I should care what the South African government does.
  jmt Deputy Commissioner
  Kafoopsy Chief Commissioner

Location: Perth, WA
Aurizon wanted to sell some old iron to a foreign purchaser, presumably on the basis that the old iron would not be used again in Australia.  
Bahnfrend
I've never understood this.  What possible use could a buyer have for the old iron that could threaten Aurizon's business in any way?  They have no interest to run any trains that could be threatened by a competitor with those older locomotives.

On the photo above, its interesting that they kept the WA numbering.  Livery looks a bit plain, perhaps a logo will be added later.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Aurizon wanted to sell some old iron to a foreign purchaser, presumably on the basis that the old iron would not be used again in Australia.  
I've never understood this.  What possible use could a buyer have for the old iron that could threaten Aurizon's business in any way?  They have no interest to run any trains that could be threatened by a competitor with those older locomotives.
Kafoopsy

The statement makes sense at face value, although we've seen plenty of examples in which operators have used discarded locomotives deemed uneconomical to undercut the big players. Most would argue this is a good thing, as it introduces competition to the market, and the smaller operators take on traffic the big players are not interested in. Some of them have even attracted new traffic to rail which the big players have then taken an interest in once it's all set up.

Of course, try telling the shareholders that a contract has been lost to a startup company using locomotives sold to them.

The big players in Australia are so afraid of competition from old iron, they'll scrap it or ship it overseas. They're their assets, they can do whatever they want with them, and I don't understand the railfans here that get offended by this. I'm not suggesting you're among their number, Kafoopsy!
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Locomotives CF4401 and CF4409 have been sold to Aurizon for use in NSW on coal trains as banking locomotives freeing up additional power for Aurizon.

They are currently at UGL bassendean after coming off hire from rio tinto
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Sold or leased?
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Sold
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
So they bought a pair of CFCLAs CFs instead of the 2 unsold C44ACis at UGL?
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
So they bought a pair of CFCLAs CFs instead of the 2 unsold C44ACis at UGL?
GT46C-ACe

Yes
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Didn't PN buy the last of the UGL C44s in the same deal they acquired the PowerHauls?
  GT46C-ACe Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Sounds about right actually.

Just doesn't make any kind of sense to me for CFCLA to sell any of their CFs.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

I believe quite a lot of the CFCLA fleet is available for sale at the moment, the company would have taken on a reasonable debt load to acquire the CFs and CMs, and with much of the lease fleet in storage now thanks to the resources downturn, CFCLA is probably happy to take the cash they can get for a near new diesel.
  james.au Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Im wondering if they'll be reclassified from CF class to one of the Aurizon classes?  Id be guessing they'd be modified to be substantially the same as the rest of them.
  M636C Minister for Railways

Im wondering if they'll be reclassified from CF class to one of the Aurizon classes?  Id be guessing they'd be modified to be substantially the same as the rest of them.
james.au
They are pretty much identical to the 6020s and have already operated as lead units in the Hunter Valley (for PN).

I'd expect them just to be repainted and a few minor cab modifications to match Aurizon units.

M636C
  8888 Chief Commissioner

Location: Shire of Mundaring
CF4409 was collected from UGL Rail at Bassendean this morning by Q4010.

Simon
  M636C Minister for Railways

CF4409 was collected from UGL Rail at Bassendean this morning by Q4010.

Simon
8888
I don't know where else to post this:

Around Midday today I saw CF4402 coupled between two LDPs on 5BM7 at Flemington (NSW). It was crossing what I took to be 5MB4 with two NRs and an AN.

I'm assuming that this is a third CF sold to Aurizon, but I'm happy for any more information.

This is the only thread discussing the CF class sale....

Peter

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