Bendigo on board with urban rail service

 
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
No, your crazy idea suggested opening all sorts of new stations, including on lines that are both not fit for service and don't show any demand.

Compared to putting up $2 million for investigating what is needed, what is wanted, and what can be delivered. The best outcome (if any) is for a trial service (over maybe a 6 month period) between EXISTING stations at
Kangaroo Flat;
Bendigo;
Epsom or Eaglehawk (alternating)
Most likely utulising a single 3 car Vlocity, or possibly a 2 car Sprinter (though less likely as these aren't currently used by on the Bendigo line)

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  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

No, your crazy idea suggested opening all sorts of new stations, including on lines that are both not fit for service and don't show any demand.

Compared to putting up $2 million for investigating what is needed, what is wanted, and what can be delivered. The best outcome (if any) is for a trial service (over maybe a 6 month period) between EXISTING stations at
Kangaroo Flat;
Bendigo;
Epsom or Eaglehawk (alternating)
Most likely utulising a single 3 car Vlocity, or possibly a 2 car Sprinter (though less likely as these aren't currently used by on the Bendigo line)
Gman_86

What a waste of money .  $  2m  would lengthen Castlemaine Loop and provide much better timekeeping for all pax.  $ 2m would pay for a big boost to frequency of existing bus services or introduce a new route .  VLP will not be wasting a 3 car V/Locity on what is a job really for a bus .  And the Sprinter fleet is all committed .  Just the silly season, and $ 2 m wasted on a report, for that price it will be gold plated  !!!
  L1150 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Pakenham Vic.
Just a question.

Are there any other non-capital cities in Australia, with a suburban rail service? The only one that I can think of is Wollongong/Port Kembla. I used it many years ago and during the morning peak it was very well patronised. I don't know what the situation is these days. From the web, it appears that local services still run in the area.Very Happy
  Chidda Bang Locomotive Driver

Location: Banned
Newcastle to Telarah. Every 30 minutes
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hot news looks like my bendigo train pattern is going to happen

https://www.viclabor.com.au/media-releases/labor-all-aboard-for-bendigo-metro-rail/


Good pickup. Thanks for sharing. I wonder if they took any hints from here? Smile

Probably not such a bad idea when you think it through. There is a reasonable distance between Epsom and Kangaroo Flat. Almost 13 kms. A rail service might work if it is linked with Melbourne arrivals or departures at Bendigo.

Geelong on the other hand from Waurn Ponds to Corio is 22 kms. Much longer distance.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Whatever does happen in Bendigo (and again I stress, more than likely nothing will happen), it will not be a suburban service, no matter what some political party spin doctor wants to call it.

The truth of the matter is though, this is just pre election popular claptrapp, it will lead to nothing. The best thing any government could do for rail travel in and around Bendigo would be to duplicate as much of the now single line as possible, allowing a more frequent service. Same goes for the Ballarat line.
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:
All very seductive and electorally opportunistic.  Let's wait and see.  

IMHO proper timing of Melbourne trains to serve Bendigo suburban stations including Eaglehawk and Epsom would deliver much of the benefit at lowest marginal cost.

Maybe there's an opportunity to run a couple of local shuttles to 'infill' Melbourne trains eg from Bendigo to KF or Castlemaine at knockoff time (say 17:30) if there is no Melbourne bound train at that time, and vv in the morning to arrive 08:30 - but I seriously doubt any major all day local service.

There is some potential to re-open Golden Square station - it might also help with commuter car parking capacity.

And although I'd love a station at California Gully, even a rudimentary short platform, I doubt it.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Mulder has now chimed in.  Reckons that it wouldn't be workable with the current single track between Golden Square and Bendigo Station.  To that i say - "No kidding!"  So what are your plans to sort that out?

I'm of the view that to have the appropriate frequency of services and reliability, re-duplicating that section and probably onwards to North Bendigo Junction would be a required.  BTW, the new early morning Epsom service currently sees the train sit at Platform 2 at Bendigo station until 5:43am (waits for Eaglehawk Up service), heads Down to Epsom, and departs on the Up from Epsom at 5:58am.  It makes me think that in future suburban trains would primarily use platform 2 (east track), and interurban trains platform 1 (west track).
  ab123 Chief Train Controller

Didn't realise Bendigo didn't have any roads. You would think an upgraded/updated bus system would benefit a whole lot more people
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
Why is this thread still going?

Wobert ended it perfectly a page ago.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Didn't realise Bendigo didn't have any roads. You would think an upgraded/updated bus system would benefit a whole lot more people
ab123

Funny you mention that.  The Lib candidate for Bendigo West responds here, and it's very telling IMO and shows where their priorities sit:

  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

This might just be a spratt chucked out by Labor to pacify the Bendigo natives .

Logic :  Geelong,  Ballarat &  Bendigo are all  marginal seats for the major parties.

So nostrildamus suggests  Labor will promise re-instatement of rail passenger services between Geelong and Ballarat to get transport  bang for bucks in Geelong and Ballarat .  So we must do something for Bendigo, so promise an overpriced Sir Humphrey study that will come to nothing and that takes care of Bendigo .

Whilst current Government did a study on Geelong - Ballarat it was very badly scoped and came up with a Rolls Royce solution running with V/Locity cars at 160kmh .  Claims that bridges would have to be upgraded and additional crossing loops commissioned were just outrageous .

The reality is that 2 x Sprinters coupled can provide 5 - 6 return trips a day at 100kmh on the existing track with a minimal number of lx improved and re-commissioning of an existing loop at Meredith .  So Geelong - Ballarat shuttles could be re-instated at a very affordable and much lower cost than the Sir Humphrey  (I don,t want it to get up)  Study of the current Government proposed .
  themetptc Junior Train Controller

Location: Ballarat
Interesting that Labor has made this study announcement about an urban railway within Bendigo.

Could this be an opposite result by them, given the current Liberal/National government have funded a study on having trams/light rail form a part of Bendigos PT once again? The report is due to be released sometime in November from what I've heard.

If the rural shuttle was to go ahead it would need to go to Maiden Gully and Huntly from the beginning to capture a greater market as well as being a further distance from the city that a urban railway is more suited to.

It would probably be more beneficial to provide a frequent rail shuttle with a sprinter or two (or 2 car Vlocity) between Echuca and Bendigo serving stations in between. Lots of people work/live between the two cities.  Also considering that this is the corridor with the greater population growth in the Bendigo region and improve the bus frequency to Eaglehawk.

Sim
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
I don't believe labor have done enough for regional Victoria.

How much money has bee allocated by labor for rail freight upgrades. ?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
This might just be a spratt chucked out by Labor to pacify the Bendigo natives .
kuldalai

Well said. It's just spin to drum up votes. It probably won't get off the ground (at least in the foreseeable future).
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The Government continues to spin lies or the Minister is very badly advised  .  From Government Media release caning Labors  Bendigo Metro rail  proposal :

"North Bendigo Junction where the lines diverge to Eaglehawk and Epsom has to be attended for all train movements. Will Labor pay for this cost?"

Wrong .  The junction is remote controlled .  It does not have to be attended . There would be no extra cost .  



"Labor hasn't factored in any signalling upgrades required to Eaglehawk and Epsom."

Well neither has the current Government when extending existing Melbourne services to Epsom & Eaglehawk . Services are operated under Train Orders which limits service levels on either leg .  Reality it is expensive staff wise with train orders  but an hourly service on each leg can be done on Train Orders, but should be properly signalled with remote control . Both Parties to blame there .


"Bendigo platform 2 is not DDA compliant. Will more trains have to use it?"

Bendigo platform 2 is used by some existing trains and will have to be made  DDA compliant in due course anyway . With a half hourly Bendigo - Melbourne service frequency and every second train originating/terminating at Eaglehawk / Epsom no trains should have to use platform 2 as Bendigo would only be a through station .  

The most sensible way for Labor to honour their commitment would be to increase the Bendigo -  Melbourne Off Peak frquency to half hourly with alternate trains originating/terminating at Epsom/Eaglehawk. (Ultimately the Eaglehawk leg could be extended to Marong . ) However to run even that level of service really requires extension of the existing short Castlemaine Loop to Harcourt, two position remote controlled signalling between Bendigo and  Eaglehawk(/Marong) / Epsom with remote control of the junction at Eaglehawk . The above requires a lot more than $ 2m in capital works alone.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Very comprehensive once again.

How is bendigo north junction controlled ?  Is it bendigo area panel ?

Eaglehawk junction probably should be upgraded anyhow.

Previous posts mention Huntley. Is this realistic ?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

All this has a smell of 60 odd years ago at Geelong when the population of Geelong was like 40,000 (today nudging 300,000) . Back in the 1950's the VR Commissioners reluctantly agreed to trial a Geelong area suburban shuttle between  Corio - North Shore - North Geelong - Geelong and South Geelong .  The service was run by a D3  steam loco and 3 odd wooden bodied cars .  Patronage was apalling and the service was withdrawn after barely a week .

From 04/15  when Geelong - Melbourne goes 20 minutes Off Peak this will by default provide a more frequent  and faster North/South service through Geelong than the Urban bus services operating on pathetic hourly frequencies.  With 8 stations within the Geelong area  between Lara and Waurn Ponds the running time is 30 minutes.

In reality single line beyond Geelong restricts alternate trains to terminate/originate at South Geelong and Waurn Ponds .  So a 40 minute frequency will be offered between Waurn Ponds/Marshall and all stations to/from Lara; and a 20 minute frequency to/from stations between  South Geelong and  Lara .

The connection of a largley already complete crossing loop back into the mainline at the Down end of South Geelong would allow with the existing loop at Marshall for the frequency to be upped beyond South Geelong .
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Interesting that Labor has made this study announcement about an urban railway within Bendigo.

Could this be an opposite result by them, given the current Liberal/National government have funded a study on having trams/light rail form a part of Bendigos PT once again? The report is due to be released sometime in November from what I've heard.

If the rural shuttle was to go ahead it would need to go to Maiden Gully and Huntly from the beginning to capture a greater market as well as being a further distance from the city that a urban railway is more suited to.

It would probably be more beneficial to provide a frequent rail shuttle with a sprinter or two (or 2 car Vlocity) between Echuca and Bendigo serving stations in between. Lots of people work/live between the two cities. Also considering that this is the corridor with the greater population growth in the Bendigo region and improve the bus frequency to Eaglehawk.

Sim
themetptc

I think that this is a farcical idea. If they do implement this loony idea, then they can jolly use W or Z Class Trams that are in storage or about to be replaced as rolling stock, not a Velocity or even a sprinter. Strip them down, remove all electrical equipment , put a diesel engine in then, grab two at a time and make them articulated, even put a coupler at the front so that they can be coupled together. Velocitys and Sprinter will be needed for more important services such as the Bendigo, Ballarat, Geelong and Traralgon services to and from Melbourne. Or better still upgrade the Bendigo Bus Network!!!

Michael
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
That is not a bad idea Michael. If bendigo need further tram capacity then there are plenty I stored trams which could be deployed.

The next question would be maintenance and depot storage.

Has any work been done on possible extensions nor reactivity on of the bendigo network ?
  Flygon Train Controller

Location: Australia
The question is, how expensive would it be to restore the Trams for railway usage? And we're not even getting into the red tape related to crash safety.

The bureaucracy is going to want something that can T-bone a car safely at a level crossing going design speed, guys. I'm not sure you'll ever get that with a W without completely rebuilding it (by which point, you may's well invest in a new railcar anyway).

Sorry if I sound a bit pessimistic, but as neat as it would be to see the Trams run on heavy rail in revenue service, you'll never get the crash safety required, and I can foresee the Dieselization expenses (as well as the $$$ required rebuilding the Trams for safe 80km/h running once more) simply being prohibitive. You'd be better off buying some clapped out Diesels from Adelaide when they'll inevitably be sold for dirt cheap, or just simply buying more VLos.

I know I sound a bit foamy and pessimistic myself, but I simply see zero real good chance of seeing restored Z's and W's Dieselized and running on the heavy rail network inside Bendigo. They belong on the Tramway, not the Railway.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

The question is, how expensive would it be to restore the Trams for railway usage? And we're not even getting into the red tape related to crash safety.

The bureaucracy is going to want something that can T-bone a car safely at a level crossing going design speed, guys. I'm not sure you'll ever get that with a W without completely rebuilding it (by which point, you may's well invest in a new railcar anyway).

Sorry if I sound a bit pessimistic, but as neat as it would be to see the Trams run on heavy rail in revenue service, you'll never get the crash safety required, and I can foresee the Dieselization expenses (as well as the $$$ required rebuilding the Trams for safe 80km/h running once more) simply being prohibitive. You'd be better off buying some clapped out Diesels from Adelaide when they'll inevitably be sold for dirt cheap, or just simply buying more VLos.

I know I sound a bit foamy and pessimistic myself, but I simply see zero real good chance of seeing restored Z's and W's Dieselized and running on the heavy rail network inside Bendigo. They belong on the Tramway, not the Railway.
Flygon

Point taken, Although at $14 Million for a 3 car train that it so expensive and I as a tax payer would be absolutely furious if the Vic Govt had bought Velocities to run a Bendigo Local Service. I hear that Auckland have placed their ADK DMU into storage and with Adelaide getting rid of their 2000 series, the Bendigo Rail network, if it ever gets off the ground, should use those.

Michael
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:
with Adelaide getting rid of their 2000 series, the Bendigo Rail network, if it ever gets off the ground, should use those.

Michael
mejhammers1

[FOAM]
Now that's a seductive idea - Mmmmm Jumbos to Eaglehawk.
[/FOAM}

[REALITY]
None of this is ever going to happen
[/REALITY]
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

[FOAM]
Now that's a seductive idea - Mmmmm Jumbos to Eaglehawk.
[/FOAM}

[REALITY]
None of this is ever going to happen
[/REALITY]
Calgully

Best line to use any surplus Adelaide DMU's on is Frankston - Stony point releasing Sprinters back to VLP .  The adelaide DMU's are generally wider than the Comeng stock so may present a loading gauge issue in Victoria .

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