Rail link to Doncaster

 
  wxtre Chief Train Controller

East-west link: Manningham Council calls for rail link to Doncaster
Luke Henriques-Gomes


Manningham Council has weighed into the east-west link debate, arguing that rail to Doncaster should come before the state government’s 6.6-kilometre cross-city road project.
It comes amid concerns the future of the long-proposed railway remains unclear only weeks out from the state election.
The council’s Doncaster rail advocacy committee last week unveiled a petition with more than 4000 signatures outside state parliament. Manningham mayor Jim Grivokostopoulos said the rail line “must take priority over road-based infrastructure projects, such as the proposed east-west link”.
The draft report of a feasibility study into the project was released in March last year. The final report has not yet surfaced.
“It has now been almost four years since this feasibility study commenced, and to date there is still no clear information about the outcome of the study,” Cr Grivokostopoulos said.
A spokeswoman for Public Transport Minister Terry Mulder said the final report would be released shortly.
The spokeswoman said the government was improving the Doncaster Area Rapid Transit bus service in the meantime, including $47 million in funding for new bus lanes and other work along Hoddle Street and Victoria Parade.
Public Transport Users Association president Tony Morton recently backed claims by the author of the Rowville rail feasibility study, who said the Rowville project could move ahead now that signalling upgrades had been announced for the Cranbourne-Pakenham line.
Dr Morton said the same logic could be applied to Doncaster, which could be pursued if work was considered on the South Morang and Hurstbridge lines.
But Monash University public transport expert Graham Currie said the Rowville and Doncaster projects could not be directly compared.
An opposition spokesman said Public Transport Victoria’s network development plan identified a need for more capacity.
“Labor will build the Melbourne Metro that will allow for additional lines and increased capacity,” he said.
Earlier in the year, the government announced plans to build the Melbourne rail link project, which it said “will increase the capacity of Melbourne’s rail network by 30 per cent”

http://www.theweeklyrevieweastern.com.au/story/1812732/east-west-link-manningham-council-calls-for-rail-link-to-doncaster/

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  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Local council calls for large infrastructure project to be built in their backyard with other people's money. News at 11.
  Edith Chief Commissioner

Location: Line 1 from Porte de Vincennes bound for Bastille station
Well, they are asking that a bigger project in their own backyard not be built.  They recognise that expansion of the E-W truck link will use up their rail reservation.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Is this fact Edith ?

I for one did not make the connection. Thanks for pointing this out.

If the government does proceed with east west link then Doncaster rail becomes impossible ?
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Well, they are asking that a bigger project in their own backyard not be built.
Edith

Manningham Council is not near any of the East-West Link infrastructure at all. EWL Stage 1 is not a truck-oriented tollway - that's a State Government sop to hide that it's designed to funnel eastern suburbs traffic through to Tullamarine and the rest of CityLink. Melbourne's freight task is concentrated around the western and south-eastern suburbs, not the north or eastern ones which EWL is designed to serve.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
EWL is being designed for trucks.  Absolutely.  I have posted here previously my view about the Liberals creating a conduit between the port of hastings and the other toll roads.  Well that is my theory anyhow.  If the Libs get back in don't expect Hastings to receive any money for rail upgrades.
  HardSleeper Junior Train Controller

Location: Route 48
EWL is being designed for trucks.
"bevans"


Yes, I certainly doubt Lindsay Fox donates to the ALP...
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
I have to agree with both of you. This project is not about providing an alternative for cars the you and I users of the road. It is about the public paying for a tunnel the trucking industry want.

I think bevans may be right in the road being linked for Hastings. This would mean a lot of trucks in the I. We north and a lot of pollution.
  Peter Spyker Train Controller

Local council calls for large infrastructure project to be built in their backyard with other people's money. News at 11.
LancedDendrite

Well, all those other railway lines were built with their money, so it's only fair that they get one, too.

Or did you think that the existing railway network grew out of the ground?
  Edith Chief Commissioner

Location: Line 1 from Porte de Vincennes bound for Bastille station
Having read the 500 page CIS, I can say a big part of it is about moving freight in "high efficiency" trucks (ie B-doubles and triples) between the ports of Hastings and Melbourne.  All the talk about getting passenger cars across town and to the airport are meant to get the Eastern suburbs on side, but I think they would be happier  with what they have now than sharing with a lot of huge trucks.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Well, all those other railway lines were built with their money, so it's only fair that they get one, too.

Or did you think that the existing railway network grew out of the ground?
Peter Spyker

I don't think you understood my point.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Well, all those other railway lines were built with their money, so it's only fair that they get one, too.

Or did you think that the existing railway network grew out of the ground?
Peter Spyker

I for one do not think that the Doncaster Railway should be built. Lets make the existing infrastructure world class, first. As I have repeated many times ad nauseum, I do not see the sense of adding more rail branches to a flawed commuter network. Signalling needs updating, stations renovated, more trains ordered and not to mention that the growth corridors of Werribee, Cranbourne, South Morang and Pakenham needs addressing. I think it is the height of selfishness that people insist that the Doncaster corridor a corridor of stagnant growth have a new train line, when the booming Melton Corridor (Ardeer, Deer Park & Rockbank) has to make do with V/Line services.

Sorry the Smart Bus service is suffice for Doncaster.

As for the East/West link I do not think it should be built. However I think the local councils that are going through the courts to fight have a hide. Those local councils have not been interested in Public Transport before, they just want their 15 mins of fame. Why not employ a local Transportation planner which makes submissions to the Public Transport Victoria body. The London Boroughs do that with TFL.

Michael
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
They recognise that expansion of the E-W truck link will use up their rail reservation.
Edith

Rubbish.

Well, all those other railway lines were built with their money, so it's only fair that they get one, too.
Spyker

Rubbish argument.

The lines were built a century ago.  Try again.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Rubbish.


Rubbish argument.

The lines were built a century ago. Try again.
ZH836301

Agreed. I have still yet to hear a balanced reasoned argument over why about $3 Billion should be spent on servicing an established non-growth suburb, except that of we should build rail not road. Not one.

Michael
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Do you really believe it's going to cost that much? I personally reckon the cost is over-inflated.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Do you really believe it's going to cost that much? I personally reckon the cost is over-inflated.
railblogger

No Doubt it will be near that amount,it certainly wont be the Pie in the sky $840 Million, that the PTUA has been quoting. Using a Ball park figure, if the Mernda Extension is to cost $750 Million, the Doncaster Line which has to interface with the Clifton Hill Group and is twice the distance will cost at least $1.5 Billion. And to get Maximum patronage they will want the line to reach at least Doncaster Shoppingtown, which will in all likelihood need tunnelling, add at least $500 million on that, then an extra train order and stabling facilities, yep fairly quickly you would be looking at around $3 Billion.

Michael
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I note that you're including that section to Doncaster Shoppingtown, which from memory was projected to bring the cost up to $11 billion. That would probably make your estimate a little more realistic in my mind.

How much do you think it would cost if you just followed the planned route?
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

I note that you're including that section to Doncaster Shoppingtown, which from memory was projected to bring the cost up to $11 billion. That would probably make your estimate a little more realistic in my mind.

How much do you think it would cost if you just followed the planned route?
railblogger

Still at least $1.5 to $2 Billion and reckon that could be conservative.

Michael
  HardSleeper Junior Train Controller

Location: Route 48
The question is why they do not just extended tram 48 to Doncaster Shopping Centre as an interim measure. Then in about 2 decades create the Doncaster rail-line. After they have built the tunnel from Clifton Hill with train stations Fitzroy and Parkville and the Victorian Market linking to Southern Cross Station.
"wxtre"


Because it already takes an hour to get to the end of the 48 tram in peak hour, let alone having to add probably at least another 30 minutes at tram speed to get to Doncaster. Even the DA(not very)RT bus services would be quicker.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
The question is why they do not just extended tram 48 to Doncaster Shopping Centre as an interim measure. Then in about 2 decades create the Doncaster rail-line. After they have built the tunnel from Clifton Hill with train stations Fitzroy and Parkville and the Victorian Market linking to Southern Cross Station.
wxtre

That's not a bad idea. Doncaster should wait until all the existing problems with the system are fixed.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
The stretch of rail-line between Clifton Hill and Flinders Street is only two tracks. Two train-lines converge already to use this corridor. It would be difficult to integrate the Doncaster line into the network without adding extra tracks to this section without it being a bottleneck.
wxtre

It's possible, but only by implementing Moving-Block Signalling (AKA High Capacity Signalling), completely homogeneous stopping patterns during peak hour (no expresses) and an explicit restriction on increasing service frequencies for all 3 lines.
You get a near-term solution to the capacity issue but in the long term you'd need a new rail tunnel or quadruplication of the Clifton Hill line.

As it stands, without significant growth in population in the Doncaster area it's unlikely that Doncaster rail could be justified. It'd be better to look at alternatives like further enhancing bus services and extending the 48 tram to the Doncaster Park & Ride.
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
You make a good point. It does take quite some time if you travel the entire route. But it is no different to any other tram route in Melbourne. It is still an option. The tram line already extends to Balwyn Road and Doncaster Shoppingtown is relatively close.
wxtre

Why would someone choose a 55 minute tram over a 35 minute bus?

It seems all logic goes out the window when Dumbcaster is involved.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Who said that everyone was going to/from the city?

Extending trams to major trip generators would ensure that the patronage doesn't dwindle as the tram gets closer to the end of the route (thus we are not wasting our resources).
  ptvcommuter Train Controller

Bump....., don’t want to create a new thread - been discussed plenty of times
However, with the North East Link getting underway there is only so much time that you can talk about Rail.

The busway which will run along the middle of Eastern Fwy median will cost AU $600 Million To construct. Building a rail line would not disrupt the new lanes that are to be created and would benefit tens of thousands of people in the east. For double the cost, you can build the Doncaster Rail Line of which 90% of it would be above ground.

Busses carry 70 people where as trains will carry up to 1500 people. The Project also talks about park and ride future facilities all which can be incorporated in the Doncaster Rail Project. Stations at Kew and Bulleen could benefit with these and a Station in Doncaster would also connect with the Suburban Rail Loop.

With the busway going ahead - is the end of the eastern freeway median which is the end of Doncaster Rail to the city. More of an effort must be made to ensure that the right option is chosen and that rail can be feasible. With the NE link taking until 2027 to complete and an announcement on MM2 to come probably before then, 2022 you would say, there would enough capacity to fit the Doncaster line into the Clifton Hill Loop.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

My opinion is that the Suburban rail loop would fill up the PT gap in Doncaster and reduce the need for the branch link.

I'd prefer to see Rowville heavy rail instead of light rail. But light rail is still desirable.

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