50 level crossings to be removed

 
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Given the geology and hydrology of the area, I doubt they have any other option.
There is another option, which is to leave the rail where it is, and put the roads over.  Probably not a feasible option, too many practical difficulties, but at least it exists in theory.
Lad_Porter
LXRA seams to have point blank ruled out property acquisition to facilitate an elevated road solution, such as a grade separated road deviation/bypass of the level crossing or horse shoe bridge.
Design would have to be spot on to suit the local streetscape (avoiding mistakes made at Burnley, Oakleigh, Newport, etc

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Given the geology and hydrology of the area, I doubt they have any other option.
There is another option, which is to leave the rail where it is, and put the roads over.  Probably not a feasible option, too many practical difficulties, but at least it exists in theory.
Lad_Porter

That is what happened in Sydney and if there is space, the road overpass is a cheaper option. A road overpass replaced level crossings at many former level crossings here. To name a few there is Merrylands, Guildford, Fairfield, Warwick Farm, Glenfield, Ingleburn, Minto, Luemeah, Campbelltown and Macarthur. I'm sure there are more on the western line as well. No rail elevation or cuts but on the new metro the rail had to be raised because of flood mitigation concerns.
  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
This quiet article over the weekend strongly hints at "hey, we know you don't want the rail-over option...but you'll likely get it"

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/level-crossings-boss-hints-that-sky-rail-might-be-the-answer-on-frankston-line-20161104-gsignq.html
Given the geology and hydrology of the area, I doubt they have any other option.

Incidentally, pilot drivers were working V/line trains between Watergardens and Sunshine (and vice versa) last week.  It was a big effort to get the job done given the that a serious amount of igneous rock had to be broken up and removed.
Carnot
Many Melbourne buildings , Bridges and roads were built with Bluestone from the west .
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

Given the geology and hydrology of the area, I doubt they have any other option.
There is another option, which is to leave the rail where it is, and put the roads over.  Probably not a feasible option, too many practical difficulties, but at least it exists in theory.

That is what happened in Sydney and if there is space, the road overpass is a cheaper option. A road overpass replaced level crossings at many former level crossings here. To name a few there is Merrylands, Guildford, Fairfield, Warwick Farm, Glenfield, Ingleburn, Minto, Luemeah, Campbelltown and Macarthur. I'm sure there are more on the western line as well. No rail elevation or cuts but on the new metro the rail had to be raised because of flood mitigation concerns.
simstrain

The crossings on the Frankston line don't have the space required for that, at least not without knocking down a large number of houses.

The only crossing which will be road-over is Thompsons Rd at Merinda Park station, which is being done by VicRoads as part of their road duplication anyway, so not really directly part of the LXRA.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

You should look at the merrylands and guildford overpasses then. Those were built where there was significant housing and/or commercial interests.
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

Conditions with regard to existing infrastructure are different to Merrylands etc.  Have a look on the LXRA website - they modelled four possibilities (rail over/under, road over/under) for each crossing, and have posted all of the plans.  There are zero crossing on the Frankston line which could be done road over without significant property acquisitions.  And they aren't going to compulsorily acquire any properties unless absolutely necessary.  

Not sure if you're familiar with the area, but part of the problem is that the railway is parallel to a major highway, only a few metres away, with the road crossing at the level ending in a T junction.  For most of the route, it's also flanked by another road on the other side, also only a few metres away.  To get a ramp up that is shallow enough for road transport is simply not possible without pushing out long loops.
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
I don't think that there's an equivalent terrain-road-rail combo that we can point to in Sydney in order to explain the situation to a Sydneysider. The only thing I can think of is to play a what-if, say if the west end of Granville was flat and there was a level crossing where the bridge is.
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

I don't think that there's an equivalent terrain-road-rail combo that we can point to in Sydney in order to explain the situation to a Sydneysider. The only thing I can think of is to play a what-if, say if the west end of Granville was flat and there was a level crossing where the bridge is.
ARodH

I don't know Sydney well enough to know of any equivalents...  But suffice to say, a quick look at Merrylands on Google Street view is enough to tell you that if you did that at any crossing between Mordy and Carrum, one end of the road bridge would need to be in the Bay!

Are there any crossings in Sydney where you had a railway line and 4-lane highway hard up against each other parallel, then another major road crossing the railway to end at a T-junction?  And then a beach 50 metres (or less) past the T-junction?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Conditions with regard to existing infrastructure are different to Merrylands etc.  Have a look on the LXRA website - they modelled four possibilities (rail over/under, road over/under) for each crossing, and have posted all of the plans.  There are zero crossing on the Frankston line which could be done road over without significant property acquisitions.  And they aren't going to compulsorily acquire any properties unless absolutely necessary.  

Not sure if you're familiar with the area, but part of the problem is that the railway is parallel to a major highway, only a few metres away, with the road crossing at the level ending in a T junction.  For most of the route, it's also flanked by another road on the other side, also only a few metres away.  To get a ramp up that is shallow enough for road transport is simply not possible without pushing out long loops.
Adogs

If you do the road over then you would overpass parallel roads and provide an alternative access to these roads. This is how both guildford and merrylands is done. I'm not saying the road over should be done. Just that if it was done it would need to use something along those lines. If it can't be done because of the closeness of a beach then forget about what I am saying in this regard but maybe for other areas that aren't so close to a beach.

Victoria Road and the Carlingford line at rydalmere is another place where both the railway line and the parallel road are overpassed with alternative access.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Oh, the old Newcastle branch is probably the closest thing to what you describe and what we did was to close it down and replace it with buses.
  jamesadams7 Station Master

Road over is also generally a poor community and urban planning outcome. It makes the urban environment much more unpleasant, makes transferring between modes (such as bus to train) more difficult and makes access to the station harder. If you look at some of the places where it's been done in the past, it's certainly had a negative impact. Sunshine, Oakleigh, Westall, etc.

The only places road over rail is still considered is where it won't have as much of an impact on the local urban environment. So Kororoit Creek Rd on the Altona Loop, which is surrounded by industrial properties, and Melton Highway Sydenham, where the road is away from the shopping precinct and most houses.
  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
Road over is also generally a poor community and urban planning outcome. It makes the urban environment much more unpleasant, makes transferring between modes (such as bus to train) more difficult and makes access to the station harder. If you look at some of the places where it's been done in the past, it's certainly had a negative impact. Sunshine, Oakleigh, Westall, etc.

The only places road over rail is still considered is where it won't have as much of an impact on the local urban environment. So Kororoit Creek Rd on the Altona Loop, which is surrounded by industrial properties, and Melton Highway Sydenham, where the road is away from the shopping precinct and most houses.
jamesadams7
Not always ; Both Furlong Road and Main Road St Albans Crossings have been done as "Road Over "with undoubted improvement to the local ambiance and functionality .
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Road over is also generally a poor community and urban planning outcome. It makes the urban environment much more unpleasant, makes transferring between modes (such as bus to train) more difficult and makes access to the station harder. If you look at some of the places where it's been done in the past, it's certainly had a negative impact. Sunshine, Oakleigh, Westall, etc.

The only places road over rail is still considered is where it won't have as much of an impact on the local urban environment. So Kororoit Creek Rd on the Altona Loop, which is surrounded by industrial properties, and Melton Highway Sydenham, where the road is away from the shopping precinct and most houses.
Not always ; Both Furlong Road and Main Road St Albans Crossings have been done as "Road Over "with undoubted improvement to the local ambiance and functionality .
Crossover
They were "rail under". A "road over" crossing leaves the railway line where it was, and requires an often very substantial road overpass.
  doyle Assistant Commissioner

Would it be possible to slightly raise the line and slightly lower the road would this be feasible could enough height be achieved for large vehicles
  woodford Chief Commissioner

Would it be possible to slightly raise the line and slightly lower the road would this be feasible could enough height be achieved for large vehicles
doyle
I assume you mean the Frankston line, the problem is for a lot of its distance its only a few feet above sea level and the ground is somewhat porous, this makes any excavations far more difficult and the final cutting needs a GOOD drainage system, this means pumps that cost much money and have to be maintained. Makes no difference if the road or rail is in the cutting.

woodford
  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
Road over is also generally a poor community and urban planning outcome. It makes the urban environment much more unpleasant, makes transferring between modes (such as bus to train) more difficult and makes access to the station harder. If you look at some of the places where it's been done in the past, it's certainly had a negative impact. Sunshine, Oakleigh, Westall, etc.

The only places road over rail is still considered is where it won't have as much of an impact on the local urban environment. So Kororoit Creek Rd on the Altona Loop, which is surrounded by industrial properties, and Melton Highway Sydenham, where the road is away from the shopping precinct and most houses.
Not always ; Both Furlong Road and Main Road St Albans Crossings have been done as "Road Over "with undoubted improvement to the local ambiance and functionality .
They were "rail under". A "road over" crossing leaves the railway line where it was, and requires an often very substantial road overpass.
duttonbay
Thanks for the clarification . I had n`t thought of the differentiation
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
To celebrate the completion of the works on the Frankston line a steam train will be running between Caulfield and Moorabbin tomorrow.
Is anyone thinking of going?
https://www.metrotrains.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/J002849-LXR-Family-Fun-Day-Campaign-16_timetable-%C6%92_3_web-1.pdf
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
To celebrate the completion of the works on the Frankston line a steam train will be running between Caulfield and Moorabbin tomorrow.
Is anyone thinking of going?
https://www.metrotrains.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/J002849-LXR-Family-Fun-Day-Campaign-16_timetable-%C6%92_3_web-1.pdf
Gauntlet
Steamrail announced yesterday they have been given permission to use their tait set as the carriages on the service.
  RATLSNAKE Chief Train Controller

More of the same this week:
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/rail-up-report-backs-scrapping-nearly-all-level-crossings-on-frankston-upfield-lines-20161115-gsplha.html

Around the river area, one understands, but unsure why rail over would be needed until after Mentone.
  ElliotProvis Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Victoria
I honestly think that the report has some very sound analysis and shows the merit of elevated rail over trenches rail enormously. It's not like infrastructure upgrades have ever caused large-scale economic downturns. It may affect the value of certain properties for a while, but that's really only a momentary blip in the value of houses, and it will almost always result in an uplift in the value of property. How can so many people be so offended by that? I believe the way we treat Asylum Seekers is far more reprehensible.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I honestly think that the report has some very sound analysis and shows the merit of elevated rail over trenches rail enormously. It's not like infrastructure upgrades have ever caused large-scale economic downturns. It may affect the value of certain properties for a while, but that's really only a momentary blip in the value of houses, and it will almost always result in an uplift in the value of property. How can so many people be so offended by that? I believe the way we treat Asylum Seekers is far more reprehensible.
ElliotProvis

You mean illegal immigrants who pay criminals to get them on leaky boats and could just as easily request asylum in Indonesia if it wasn't for the fact that they are also in Indonesia illegally vs the genuine refugees from refugee camps that actually arrive in Australia with nothing on there back because of war or famine. That get jobs and work hard when they do get here of which I know many including a care worker who helps my disabled father.
  ElliotProvis Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Victoria
I don't recall asking for your opinion?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I don't recall asking for your opinion?
ElliotProvis

Then don't bring it up.
  RATLSNAKE Chief Train Controller

I honestly think that the report has some very sound analysis and shows the merit of elevated rail over trenches rail enormously. It's not like infrastructure upgrades have ever caused large-scale economic downturns. It may affect the value of certain properties for a while, but that's really only a momentary blip in the value of houses, and it will almost always result in an uplift in the value of property. How can so many people be so offended by that? I believe the way we treat Asylum Seekers is far more reprehensible.
ElliotProvis
Sound analysis to a point, but it's taken out of context of the bayside area in question. They're simply comparing over & under in general terms, ignoring the geography of what is being spoken, making it far less sound. The Frankston line is not the Sandringham line.  There is no way that the Frankston line being raised 10m above the ground for KMs down the eastern bay will uplift property value.

The rest is completely off-topic.
  ElliotProvis Junior Train Controller

Location: Melbourne, Victoria
You're right, it does not include the geographic data about that space, however the approach undertaken by the paper is looking at the social-community dimensions of these projects, as opposed to looking at the geographical implications. It's an academic paper that looks at possible alternatives and solutions to this region. It's interesting you mention context, because these suburbs are rapidly intensifying too; and so the local context is changing too.

Well, I just don't accept anecdotes as evidence. If you have empirical data about why it won't uplift property values, I'm happy to read it. Your opinion however, isn't science (not that we can call economics a 'science' either really).

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