Pakenham Passengers barred from VLINE

 
  mrfatman Station Master

Trains are already over capacity with excessive crowding and their solution is to make fewer trains available to fewer people.

The fares paid by VLINE customers are already very cheap. I looked it up and if you buy a pass, you can travel from Nar-Nar Goon for $8.2 a day, scarcely a dollar a day more expensive than METRO. I am scratching my head to think what possible logical reason there could be for this decision but it seems PT Victoria wants to make life unbearable for inner regional commuters like Pakenham and Sunbury people.

Could someone please tell me if there is any logical, I MEAN LOGICAL, reason for this change ? Based on facts ? Figures ? Efficiency of the rail system ? Why have they done this ? What is the benefit ?

Somewhere there is a little kid waiting for mummy daddy to come home but they won't get to see mummy or daddy, because some Gippslander decided having a seat for their bag was more important.


Thanks.

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  AzN_dj Chief Commissioner

Location: Along route 69
Because V/Line trains are not limitless capacity either - they are experiencing overcrowding themselves. What would be a worse situation - someone can't get on a Pakenham train and has to wait 5 minutes for the next one, or someone missing a Traralgon train and having to wait for 60 minutes, but 50 people get off the train at Pakenham?

V/Line trains are at standing room only during peak hour. They don't need more people on them.
(p.s. your analogy is stupid. There are frequent trains to Pakenham, and people aren't hogging seats for their bag in peak hour to the point that it is causing congestion).
  mrfatman Station Master

Because V/Line trains are not limitless capacity either - they are experiencing overcrowding themselves. What would be a worse situation - someone can't get on a Pakenham train and has to wait 5 minutes for the next one, or someone missing a Traralgon train and having to wait for 60 minutes, but 50 people get off the train at Pakenham?

V/Line trains are at standing room only during peak hour. They don't need more people on them.
(p.s. your analogy is stupid. There are frequent trains to Pakenham, and people aren't hogging seats for their bag in peak hour to the point that it is causing congestion).
AzN_dj

I do not believe that any of that is accurate. So I'll just assume you do not have a logical reason for these changes.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Somewhere there is a little kid waiting for mummy daddy to come home but they won't get to see mummy or daddy, because some Gippslander decided having a seat for their bag was more important.
mrfatman

  mrfatman Station Master

As a person who has recently moved from interstate, it is obvious to me that this entire debate has nothing to do with crowding and everything to do with snobbery and petty bickering. VLINE trains are simply not crowded. There is not factual basis to that claim. Metro would be classed as excessively crowded on the Pakenham line (if VLINE is considered crowded), so taking some passengers from METRO and allowing them onto VLINE would help. Especially in areas where express services are desperately needed such as for passengers from around Pakenham.

On another note I think that Gippsland people want to be seen as better than outer suburbanites and therefore want inner regional (dirty outer suburbanites, whatever) on "their trains". That is fairly obvious.

There is a lot of selfishness - they want excessive room on the trains i.e an entire row of their own.  There is some bizarre city vs country bigotry where they're both jealous and look down on city people at the same time. It is truly strange and weird.

If it were about capacity, the logical conclusion would to add more carriages. They'd be asking for a Pakenham carriage or two, but they're not, and they won't, it is about bigotry. If it was about capacity, metro would have added an express train or two for the suburbanites.

This is political point scoring as a result of endless whinging from the country. I can't say this kind of thinking will end well for anyone.

You've effectively just dumped a bunch of passengers onto an already excessively over capacity train line.

The smart thing to add another carriage and get the Pakenham passengers to buy VLINE tickets. More money, more capacity and help with congestion on METRO. As I  said that wasn't done because this was a decision based on hatred.
  mrfatman Station Master




LancedDendrite

Those who really want to use the VLINE will just go to Nar-Nar Goon.

6 minutes by car from Pakenham station.

*yawns.

Going to be funny watching empty VLINE trains get stuck behind an increased number of METRO trains. Straya ! get it in ya !
  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
Sunbury now has double at least the service frequency it enjoyed prior to electrification . People travelling further out have the right to comfort due to the distances they travel .
To say these decisions re based on "hatred ", I suggest is not helpful .
  TheMetman Locomotive Driver

Location: gippsland
Do you even use a Gippsland line train? There's clearly logical reasons for it. The V/line trains are very overcrowded.  And I'm not sure where you are getting your figures from but you are wrong. Also V/line and Metro commuters use myki.
  mrfatman Station Master

Do you even use a Gippsland line train? There's clearly logical reasons for it. The V/line trains are very overcrowded.  And I'm not sure where you are getting your figures from but you are wrong. Also V/line and Metro commuters use myki.
TheMetman
You have no idea the stress a 1.5 hour METRO trip causes. The trains are bad. Really bad. I wouldn't wish it one anyone.

The congestion on VLINE is nothing. I have used both. The cost difference is also almost nothing to Nar Nar Goon.

Cardinia Road should be METRO. Make Pakenham station VLINE. Problem solved.

You also need to understand. Well I won't go into my life story but Pakenham is not where I am going to settle. I am going to buy a home close to the city once the market cools down and all of this will have just been a bad dream.

But ...

The way Pakenham commuters are treated is shameful. Gippslanders who consider themselve Egalitarian should be ashamed.

Egalitarianism only works when you're prepared to be Egalitarian to each other. Humans are largely not Egalitarian which is why the only solution to complex economic problems can be the free market Smile Eventually they will wake up and privatise the regional trains so that Gippsland passengers can bear the full cost and full benefit of their service without needing to worry about pesky city folk. This works amazingly well in Europe, where most rail operators are private for the kinds of distance VLINE is talking about. Only the tickets are not 20 AUD a pop Razz
  712M Chief Commissioner

Have some perspective people. The V/Line trains from Pakenham to the city in peak hours is barely any faster than Metro due to the fact they are timetabled to follow behind all stations Metro trains. You are suggesting that the thought of spending 75 minutes on Metro train is unbearable yet you are happy to drive to Nar Nar Goon and sit on a V/Line for 75 minutes. If you want to catch country trains so badly, then you should move to the country and enjoy the inflexibility of hourly services, the last train leaving the city at 9:30pm and long delays in the suburban area on a daily basis!
  mrfatman Station Master

Have some perspective people. The V/Line trains from Pakenham to the city in peak hours is barely any faster than Metro due to the fact they are timetabled to follow behind all stations Metro trains. You are suggesting that the thought of spending 75 minutes on Metro train is unbearable yet you are happy to drive to Nar Nar Goon and sit on a V/Line for 75 minutes. If you want to catch country trains so badly, then you should move to the country and enjoy the inflexibility of hourly services, the last train leaving the city at 9:30pm and long delays in the suburban area on a daily basis!
712M
Mate. Pakenham is country. Nar Nar goon is literally just down the road. I will do that. It is the obvious thing to do. Why would I not do that ? 80 cents extra per day for the chance not going insane on the ridiculous metro commute ? Yes please !

You should try the Pakenham commute before smeg on other people just trying to get to work. A little bit of compassion would go a long way. The VLINE level of comfort & express is definitely needed for such a long journey. Offpeak it is definitely a full half hour faster as I have timed it and come to the conclusion.

No one else in VIC has to deal with a 1.5 hour commute on such a crowded line and uncomfortable metro line. VLINE passengers are little princesses who want more leg room and an entire row of seat to themselves. With scarce public transport resources that is simply not acceptable.  

You can't compare Pakenham to someone getting on at Hawksburn BECAUSE HAWKSBURN IS SUBURBAN AND PAKENHAM IS REGIONAL. Even if Gippslanders don't like it.  Even Sunbury station is a lot closer and until recently they too had VLINE services.

Tarneit and Deer park are getting NEW VLINE services and they're MUCH closer than Pakenham. So it has nothing to do with geography as the geography clearly states Pakenham is REGIONAL with the added bonus of METRO services. Good for them. Those poor sods 65kms from CBD get one bloody good thing about their area and you must take it away ?

You're putting regional commuters on the longest, most crowded suburban line. Shame on you. This is all about snobbery and class warefare.

EDIT 2 : As no one seems to have any actual reasons for this apart from

"OMG US COUNTRY PEOPLE WANT MORE ROOM"

I'm going to assume there simply isn't one.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
The only class war going on here is the one you are trying to introduce. Your arguments are ridiculous and based on your distorted perception of class. Do us all a favour and take your stupid ideas elsewhere.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
It's simple, the line has to be drawn somewhere, and Pakenham is that somewhere. Hell, you even suggest moving that line one station further down the line so it doesn't effect you anymore. So really your being a but of a hypocrite, the reality is you just don't like it because Pakenham just happens to be your local station. SO GET OVER IT!
  mrfatman Station Master

The only class war going on here is the one you are trying to introduce. Your arguments are ridiculous and based on your distorted perception of class. Do us all a favour and take your stupid ideas elsewhere.
TheBlacksmith
What other explanation can there be for cutting services to an already crowded train line ?

So country people can have more leg room ? Not good enough.
  mrfatman Station Master

It's simple, the line has to be drawn somewhere, and Pakenham is that somewhere. Hell, you even suggest moving that line one station further down the line so it doesn't effect you anymore. So really your being a but of a hypocrite, the reality is you just don't like it because Pakenham just happens to be your local station. SO GET OVER IT!
Gman_86
That line was Cardinia. They moved it Pakenham. I suggested that I will just drive 5 minutes to Nar Nar Goon and catch the VLINE.

I asked for a reason for this change. No one can produce an actual reason beyond "we want more room on OUR trains".

You  come from Melton. You realise Melton is a lot closer to the CBD than Pakenham ?

How would you feel if you suddenly had to catch the METRO trains every single day and you had to stand for over an hour of a 1.5 hour trip home while an empty VLINE is nearby.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
What other explanation can there be for cutting services to an already crowded train line ?

So country people can have more leg room ? Not good enough.
mrfatman
You have just come on here for a whinge, and want to suggest that there is an institutionalised practice of class warfare being practised by V/Line. The idea is ridiculous and false.

We get some pretty silly arguments being raised here from time to time, but this is just plain whinging and has no place here. Buggar off.
  mrfatman Station Master

You have just come on here for a whinge, and want to suggest that there is an institutionalised practice of class warfare being practised by V/Line. The idea is ridiculous and false.

We get some pretty silly arguments being raised here from time to time, but this is just plain whinging and has no place here. Buggar off.
TheBlacksmith
Not VLINe. The passengers who lobbied for the change.
  mrfatman Station Master

You have just come on here for a whinge, and want to suggest that there is an institutionalised practice of class warfare being practised by V/Line. The idea is ridiculous and false.

We get some pretty silly arguments being raised here from time to time, but this is just plain whinging and has no place here. Buggar off.
TheBlacksmith
Would you like to have a boxing match with me ? Seems you like abusing people on the internet ?

That way we can legally fight this one out. note: I would never hurt another person if they did not want to be hurt so don't feel like I'm threatening you. You just seem to really hate me for no reason. That's all.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
That line was Cardinia. They moved it Pakenham. I suggested that I will just drive 5 minutes to Nar Nar Goon and catch the VLINE.

I asked for a reason for this change. No one can produce an actual reason beyond "we want more room on OUR trains".

You  come from Melton. You realise Melton is a lot closer to the CBD than Pakenham ?

How would you feel if you suddenly had to catch the METRO trains every single day and you had to stand for over an hour of a 1.5 hour trip home while an empty VLINE is nearby.
mrfatman
This isn't about me, it's actually not about you either, but I guess you would have a bit of trouble understanding that.

The line is not, and never was to Cardinia, and it never moved to Pakenham, that is just a load of crap.  

The only change here is that they have bought Pakenham in line with every other METRO line that ends and becomes a V/Line line, you have never been able to catch a Geelong Line train from Werribee into Melbourne, just like you can not catch a Seymour Line train from Craigieburn into Melbourne. Before Sunbury was electrified you were not allowed to catch a V/Line train from either Watergardens, or St Albans before that into Melbourne, and you are not allowed to catch a Ballarat line train to the city from Sunshine. The same goes for every other suburban station that V/Line calls in at whether that be Essendon, Footscray, Dandenong, or any of the many others, they all have the same rules.

Pakenham until recently has been the only station in Victoria that has allowed passengers to join both METRO and V/Line services to and from the city, recently Sunbury was added to that list to allow people to adjust to the new services. This unusual anomoly has now been removed.

As for me, even though this has nothing to do with me, If I worked in the city (which I don't), and commuted into the CBD every day (which I don't), I would much prefer the extra flexibilty that would be available upon the time METRO services would be available to me. In fact I know several people that rather than take their chances on the relatively infrequent non-peak services that are available on the Ballarat line, prefer to drive to Watergardens, and catch the much more frequent, METRO services. So your argument fails to stand up.

So, please stop your whining.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The only thing Pakenham commuters can do Is lobby for better train services, faster, greater comfit, etc
  mrfatman Station Master

This isn't about me, it's actually not about you either, but I guess you would have a bit of trouble understanding that.

The line is not, and never was to Cardinia, and it never moved to Pakenham, that is just a load of crap.  

The only change here is that they have bought Pakenham in line with every other METRO line that ends and becomes a V/Line line, you have never been able to catch a Geelong Line train from Werribee into Melbourne, just like you can not catch a Seymour Line train from Craigieburn into Melbourne. Before Sunbury was electrified you were not allowed to catch a V/Line train from either Watergardens, or St Albans before that into Melbourne, and you are not allowed to catch a Ballarat line train to the city from Sunshine. The same goes for every other suburban station that V/Line calls in at whether that be Essendon, Footscray, Dandenong, or any of the many others, they all have the same rules.

Pakenham until recently has been the only station in Victoria that has allowed passengers to join both METRO and V/Line services to and from the city, recently Sunbury was added to that list to allow people to adjust to the new services. This unusual anomoly has now been removed.

As for me, even though this has nothing to do with me, If I worked in the city (which I don't), and commuted into the CBD every day (which I don't), I would much prefer the extra flexibilty that would be available upon the time METRO services would be available to me. In fact I know several people that rather than take their chances on the relatively infrequent non-peak services that are available on the Ballarat line, prefer to drive to Watergardens, and catch the much more frequent, METRO services. So your argument fails to stand up.

So, please stop your whining.
Gman_86
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. You don't commute from the city, let alone from Pakenham. That is the problem with rail and why it will always be a disgrace in this country because of people who have an attitude like yours.

Pakenham has always had access to VLINE since I have been alive. Weribee only recently lost it.

Pakenham is a very long way away from the city. It SHOULD be regional. Having METRO should be an added bonus. I just drove to Nar Nar Goon and back, it will take 15 minutes each way, so an extra 5 minutes drive for me. Not a big deal at all.
  mrfatman Station Master

The only thing Pakenham commuters can do Is lobby for better train services, faster, greater comfit, etc
Nightfire
No mate, we're going to lobby long and hard to get the VLINE back because it should have never been taken away in the first place. We'll get it back because it just makes sense to use whatever trains are available. We have right on our side so will eventually prevail.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
No mate, we're going to lobby long and hard to get the VLINE back because it should have never been taken away in the first place. We'll get it back because it just makes sense to use whatever trains are available. We have right on our side so will eventually prevail.
mrfatman
Good for you.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
No mate, we're going to lobby long and hard to get the VLINE back because it should have never been taken away in the first place. We'll get it back because it just makes sense to use whatever trains are available. We have right on our side so will eventually prevail.
mrfatman
V/Line clearly don't want suburban commuters on their trains, that will never change !
  mrfatman Station Master

Good for you.
Gman_86
Melton is 38kms from the city. Pakenham is 65kms. I hope that in the future Melton is electrified and it takes you an hour and a half to get to work. Then you can experience the joy of METRO trains. it currently only takes melton 32 minutes by vline.

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