Malcolm Turncoat's imploding act

 
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
So, getting back to topic, why has Turnbull's name been altered in the title of the thread? Are we showing our bias already Brian?
That disgusting rag the Herald-Sun called him 'Turncoat Turnbull' on the FRONT PAGE on Tuesday - I thought that was not respectful towards our Prime Minister elect regardless of what you think of him. Every bit as bad as calling Julia Gillard 'Juliar' and 'Ditch the b*tch'.
don_dunstan
OK, so we follow that bad example by doing the same here?

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  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm just commenting on where the title was likely to come from; I didn't title this thread.

Will Malcolm implode like Tony did?
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Thing about bias... goes hand-in-hand with hypocrisy.
Search RP posts for Juliar and Krudd. You'll see those that use it at every opportunity and probably continue to do so.

Now I won't refer to the bloke as Turncoat because that would be hypocritical.
I mean does name calling make someone's not so humble opinion more credible!

IMHO Wink
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
This Turncoat nonsense is just that - nonsense. It's on a par with the hypocritical ravings of Jeff Kennett about team solidarity, Turnbull's selfishness,  and disloyalty to the captain et al ad nauseam.
Kennett used to be president of Hawthorn Football Club, and he knew as well as anyone that if the captain isn't performing you replace him. Loyalty to the captain is one thing, but when he becomes a liability to the team, loyalty to the team and its aims takes precedence as it should. A new captain takes over.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Turnbull's first big test as PM to see if they can comfortably win the by-election in WA tomorrow...
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
So, getting back to topic, why has Turnbull's name been altered in the title of the thread? Are we showing our bias already Brian?
That disgusting rag the Herald-Sun called him 'Turncoat Turnbull' on the FRONT PAGE on Tuesday - I thought that was not respectful towards our Prime Minister elect regardless of what you think of him. Every bit as bad as calling Julia Gillard 'Juliar' and 'Ditch the b*tch'.
don_dunstan
He wasn't Prime Minister Elect, that title is for post elections. Sorry I cannot remember the term they used.

As for the names, well maybe yes maybe no. I would not have thought the press should use that term but Juliar is very common in the public domain and deserving, Turnball likewise as he has been causing problems for a longtime.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Turnbull's first big test as PM to see if they can comfortably win the by-election in WA tomorrow...
don_dunstan

Seriously was this ever in doubt?

They were always going to win and they were always going to suffer a minor loss as the guy who died was very very popular.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
This Turncoat nonsense is just that - nonsense. It's on a par with the hypocritical ravings of Jeff Kennett about team solidarity, Turnbull's selfishness,  and disloyalty to the captain et al ad nauseam.
Kennett used to be president of Hawthorn Football Club, and he knew as well as anyone that if the captain isn't performing you replace him. Loyalty to the captain is one thing, but when he becomes a liability to the team, loyalty to the team and its aims takes precedence as it should. A new captain takes over.
Valvegear
I think the bigger issue is the way 3 x PM's have now been dumped in less than 5 years outside an election. The public don't like it and as do much of the party (both sides) going by the votes. Its also setting a bad trend that PM's now need to watch their backs more and spend more time managing their own party and less time the economy or the opposition. Countries who dump leaders so readily are historically not treated with alot of credibility.

Bob Hawke had to put up with Keating at his ankles in his final years before he finally lost. Howard didn't face an official challenge, but only because Costello was not publicly popular. There is also very limited evidence that these challenges actually keep a party in power for longer. Keating didn't win the election, Dr Hewson lost it. JG only got in by the skin of her teeth but would have not if she had not lied and Rudd lost. NSW has a similar history.  

These leaders have meetings with other leaders at UN meetings and the like and their counter parts don't know if they will be back next time. This has to affect deals and agreements being done that time and also building relationships between leaders.

The problem is that the PM needs to know when to step down. TA himself asked for 6mths, there was no joint meeting review of his performance. They had a meeting in private in secret while he was on official PM business. The Parties, both sides need to smarten up. Turnball was given a deal to sign with Nationals to get their support, maybe there is something in this for challenges.
  gordon_s1942 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Tablelands of NSW
To be selected by a Party to be their Leader and if and when that Party wins sufficient seats to Govern is a Power Trip.
Money really has nothing to do with it as many CEO's or Lawyers as most Politicians are etc earn far more than what a Prime Minister does.
Its the POWER of the position thats the carrot on the stick, the stick being of course bad press and those in the Party sweating on the job at a future date.
To be selected as leader/PM you must have 'friends' who some may see you as a 'Go Getter' and really support you and those who see you as a chance to hop on the Gravy Train by hanging onto your Coat Tails.
This where the problem begins because very few of them are going to do or say anything other than what YOU want to hear for obvious reasons and unfortunately without few if any any negatives being presented, off you go thinking all in the Garden is coming up Roses, but in reality, more than a few thorns are hidden amongst those perfumed Roses.
Eventually the thorns expand until they crowd the Roses to the point of them wilting and the only way seen is to restore the Garden to health is to eliminate what allowed the thorns to grow in the first place and that was YOU not seeing the negatives that are present in all Government proposals and your now deemed as expendable by those who once supported you, clamoring to be the new Leader.

Very simplistic maybe but we have seen as quoted above in others postings, this being repeated over and over again.

The adage of 'Uneasy Lies the Head that wears the Crown' has certainly applied to a few in recent times methinks.........
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: North Haverbrook; where the monorail is king!
I think the bigger issue is the way 3 x PM's have now been dumped in less than 5 years outside an election. The public don't like it and as do much of the party (both sides) going by the votes. It's also setting a bad trend that PM's now need to watch their backs more and spend more time managing their own party and less time the economy or the opposition. Countries who dump leaders so readily are historically not treated with a lot of credibility.
RTT_Rules

Judging by the opinion polls, voters seem to be fine with Turnbull knifing Abbott:




Rudd was publicly popular but an absolute nightmare to deal with in Cabinet, based on post-spill interviews. The polls were looking a little shaky for him at the time, but he had room to recover. The ALP failed to explain properly why he had to go and then failed again at getting him out of the limelight once Gillard was running things. Gillard was the better PM by far but got shocking treatment from many parts of the press, nearly all of it focussed on her as an individual instead of on actual policy matters.

The difference between then and now is that Abbott fell out of favour with the general public long before his party got fed up with him. Abbott doesn't seem to be as petty as Rudd and indeed may go quietly. The other big loser from the spill, Joe Hockey, is being carted off to Washington (where he can puff on Cuban cigars to his hearts content, thanks to the US trade embargo being lifted Laughing). The rest of Abbott's former cabinet are mostly either collaborators (Bishop, Pyne), have been paid off with a promotion (Scott Morrison) or are old enough to be put out to pasture (Kevin Andrews, Erica Abetz, Ian Macfarlane).
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Howard didn't face an official challenge, but only because Costello was not publicly popular.
RTT_Rules
Didn't have the constitutional fortitude more like it. Keating at least took on that self-absorbed narcissist Hawke and lost the first time - Costello didn't even try with Johnny Howard - can't ever respect him for that despite the fact that he openly craved that job.

Another Liberal Party also-ran.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE

Rudd was publicly popular but an absolute nightmare to deal with in Cabinet, based on post-spill interviews. The polls were looking a little shaky for him at the time, but he had room to recover. The ALP failed to explain properly why he had to go and then failed again at getting him out of the limelight once Gillard was running things. Gillard was the better PM by far but got shocking treatment from many parts of the press, nearly all of it focussed on her as an individual instead of on actual policy matters.

The difference between then and now is that Abbott fell out of favour with the general public long before his party got fed up with him. Abbott doesn't seem to be as petty as Rudd and indeed may go quietly. The other big loser from the spill, Joe Hockey, is being carted off to Washington (where he can puff on Cuban cigars to his hearts content, thanks to the US trade embargo being lifted Laughing). The rest of Abbott's former cabinet are mostly either collaborators (Bishop, Pyne), have been paid off with a promotion (Scott Morrison) or are old enough to be put out to pasture (Kevin Andrews, Erica Abetz, Ian Macfarlane).
LancedDendrite
Gillard was the better of two evils compared to Rudd but not a good PM and many a senior ALP member will say the same including the likes of Graeme Richardson. She coped a bit of excess criticism from media and public being female and I could see Anna Bligh had to deal with the same in Qld. Julia's main problem was her back flip on CO2 tax to save the ALP govt following the election, few PM's have back flipped on an election promise so soon and so clearly after an election.

ALP sold their sole to save their govt butts, much better off to go back to the polls. Howard took the GST to the polls and govt the stamp by the people to implement it. Most of the voters hated the tax and hated the backflip and voted TA in for no other reason but to get rid of the tax. When ALP dumped her, Rudd didn't have enough time to remove the tax

TA will go quietly because that's his nature, I don't believe he has a history of sour grapes and causing problems and hence I think unlike Turnball and Rudd he will acknowledge his time is over and resign from the parliament at the next election. the plumb job waiting for him that is also to ensure his silence I'm sure we will find out in near future.

Joe Hockey, the USA Ambassadorship gets him out of the way, but I bet it was a deal done by some of the those who voted against TA. ie We will support Turnball, but are not dumping Hockey and Abbott to the gutter, they need to be looked after and this means the party must have had some respect for them personally and professionally, unlike Rudd and Gillard. I suspect Hockey knew this and hence why he has also left quietly. Andrews on the other hand......

I'm also sure the plumb jobs on offer is to keep them busy and stop them writing a book, aka Johnny Howard.

FYI - wasn't hard to get Cuban's into USA before or in USA. I bought some for my boss in Aus who sent me to Vancouver for 2 weeks. I got them in Vancouver airport in the USA departure section.

Regards
Shane
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
So, getting back to topic, why has Turnbull's name been altered in the title of the thread? Are we showing our bias already Brian?
That disgusting rag the Herald-Sun called him 'Turncoat Turnbull' on the FRONT PAGE on Tuesday - I thought that was not respectful towards our Prime Minister elect regardless of what you think of him. Every bit as bad as calling Julia Gillard 'Juliar' and 'Ditch the b*tch'.
He wasn't Prime Minister Elect, that title is for post elections. Sorry I cannot remember the term they used.

As for the names, well maybe yes maybe no. I would not have thought the press should use that term but Juliar is very common in the public domain and deserving, Turnball likewise as he has been causing problems for a longtime.
RTT_Rules
You complain about Turnbull being called "Turncoat", but call him "Turnball" yourself. What's the difference?
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
TA will go quietly because that's his nature, I don't believe he has a history of sour grapes and causing problems ...
RTT_Rules
On Media Watch tonight they were insinuating that his supporters started leaking anti-Malcolm Turnbull material within 24 hours of Tony losing office. I'm not saying that Tony himself did that but I just don't think he's going be humble and meander off onto the back-bench (and history) quietly.

They also discussed Tony Abbott's long love affair with Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones and News Ltd in general and how it didn't seem to save him in the end. Personally I think Rupert's little empire just doesn't have the reach that it used to - especially with young people who don't tend to read newspapers or even look at those kind of websites. Anyway... Malcolm's first News Poll tomorrow - do the public love our new rock star millionaire PM or not?
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
... ALP sold their sole to save their govt butts...

TA will go quietly because that's his nature, I don't believe he has a history of sour grapes and causing problems ...

Regards
Shane
RTT_Rules

Being predisposed to one side of politics is fine (most people are, which is why a minority decide elections). However individuals within a party aren’t necessarily holier than those on the other side.

Badly misled’: Tony Abbott’s bitter swipe at Scott Morrison as polls vindicate leadership spill

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/badly-misled-tony-abbotts-bitter-swipe-at-scott-morrison-as-polls-vindicate-leadership-spill/story-fn5tas5k-1227537965889

On Media Watch tonight they were insinuating that his supporters started leaking anti-Malcolm Turnbull material within 24 hours of Tony losing office. I'm not saying that Tony himself did that but I just don't think he's going be humble and meander off onto the back-bench (and history) quietly.

They also discussed Tony Abbott's long love affair with Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones and News Ltd in general and how it didn't seem to save him in the end. Personally I think Rupert's little empire just doesn't have the reach that it used to - especially with young people who don't tend to read newspapers or even look at those kind of websites. Anyway... Malcolm's first News Poll tomorrow - do the public love our new rock star millionaire PM or not?
don_dunstan

MW weren't insinuating as it what was common knowledge last Friday. Those on the far starboard of the Liberal Party will find themselves increasingly marginalised, especially if MT wins the next election. Don't expect them to play nice.

As for the "Minister for 2GB", I did wonder whether the bible he held at the swearing-in had particular significance after his inquisition last Friday Wink
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
As for the "Minister for 2GB", I did wonder whether the bible he held at the swearing-in had particular significance after his inquisition last Friday Wink
Groundrelay
As they also said on Media Watch, there's every reason for Bolt, Hadley, Jones and News Ltd to feel ripped off; their choice of PM got sunk by his own party.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Newspoll has Malcolm at 55% and Shorten at 24%; there's a lot of 'other' or 'undecided'.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
TA will go quietly because that's his nature, I don't believe he has a history of sour grapes and causing problems ...
On Media Watch tonight they were insinuating that his supporters started leaking anti-Malcolm Turnbull material within 24 hours of Tony losing office. I'm not saying that Tony himself did that but I just don't think he's going be humble and meander off onto the back-bench (and history) quietly.

They also discussed Tony Abbott's long love affair with Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones and News Ltd in general and how it didn't seem to save him in the end. Personally I think Rupert's little empire just doesn't have the reach that it used to - especially with young people who don't tend to read newspapers or even look at those kind of websites. Anyway... Malcolm's first News Poll tomorrow - do the public love our new rock star millionaire PM or not?
don_dunstan
Agree, but I also see whats the point. You're a LNP supporter, Turnball kicked out Abbott and got a number of his senior minsters to help him. Abbott's gone, he is not going to do a Rudd. Why would a party supporter leak further information against Turnball bringing the party into disrepute? The biggest criticism of Turnball until recently was that he was well known to be a leak in the camp, but he had something to try and achieve. Abbott is not coming back, WHY BOTHER!

Yes and I heard TA's beach side comments against Morrison. He's obviously a bit sore on that one, but also just gave a straight answer to a straight question.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Newspoll has Malcolm at 55% and Shorten at 24%; there's a lot of 'other' or 'undecided'.
don_dunstan

The "Minister for 2GB" has one thing correct though. How reliable are the polls these days?

UK PM had is losing speech written and won by a landslide

Greek PM seems to have pulled of something similar.

Mind you the Abbott era polls for the WA bi-election came up with a similar result on polling day.

Malcolm should do his mini budget and then go straight to an election, double dissolution before the end of the year. Put the whole lot to the public and then come what may the new govt can just get on with it as the people have clearly spoken!
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
It will be indeed interesting to see how former PM Abbott and his now exiled Praetorian Guard will behave under the new management.
Hopefully he can be constructively engaged and do a little more than the speaking circuit.
And as for the title of this thread, it is just insulting - not clever and best left to the screaming headlines of the Hun (that learned journal of record which would be quite home in Zimbabwe).
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Scott Morrison today tells us that as treasurer his priorities will be more tax cuts and attacking 'welfare rorters' - seems some things never change.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Scott Morrison today tells us that as treasurer his priorities will be more tax cuts and attacking 'welfare rorters' - seems some things never change.
don_dunstan
Its a fair statement and only aids the economy. in 1980 10% of the budget was used for welfare, its now 20% and rising. So if the budget is around $350B (only a guess), that's $35B that isn't being spent on the likes of transport, debt repayment etc.

The longterm projections of an unrestrained welfare bill will see Australia and most European countries bankrupt in the mid 21st century.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Scott Morrison today tells us that as treasurer his priorities will be more tax cuts and attacking 'welfare rorters' - seems some things never change.
don_dunstan
You would rather him let rorters get away with it - or even encourage them, and increase taxes?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
So, getting back to topic, why has Turnbull's name been altered in the title of the thread? Are we showing our bias already Brian?
That disgusting rag the Herald-Sun called him 'Turncoat Turnbull' on the FRONT PAGE on Tuesday - I thought that was not respectful towards our Prime Minister elect regardless of what you think of him. Every bit as bad as calling Julia Gillard 'Juliar' and 'Ditch the b*tch'.
He wasn't Prime Minister Elect, that title is for post elections. Sorry I cannot remember the term they used.
RTT_Rules
The accurate title for the period between assuming leadership and being sworn in is 'Prime Minister-designate'.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Scott Morrison today tells us that as treasurer his priorities will be more tax cuts and attacking 'welfare rorters' - seems some things never change.
You would rather him let rorters get away with it - or even encourage them, and increase taxes?
Aaron
That would be stealing ALP policy Smile

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